Rush

Student Lounge College Life
21

<p>
[quote]

"It's not for me, but if that's what they want to do, good for them - I'll go join the tennis club"? Sure, they're exclusive, but many clubs require auditions or an interview process - some of them actually even go so far as to call it "rush"!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, a lot of clubs have to go through the same kind of processes, but in the end you end up hanging out with people who like to do the same things you do. I was on a tennis club last semester and met about 15 really cool people on it. All we had to do was pay $30 at the beginning and then I could come play with them at other schools for free each time. We would get to meet people at other schools too while we were at it but I know frats/sororities probably do it too. The best part was that we all enjoyed tennis so it just ended up being a fun experience even if I got busy with school at some points of the semester. Same goes with other clubs I've been it (they were interest clubs, not sports clubs). I'm sure it would've been the same with a fraternity but what do you do besides hang out with people, go to parties, and meet other people? You said something about leadership opportunities and such but what about those who don't? What else do they do? I'm just curious. I'm still learning about them...</p>

<p>
[quote]

Many clubs require dues - what tangible benefit are you getting from paying to join the student booster club so you can wear a special t-shirt and cheer for the football team (and I doubt you can name any that are any less "highly overstated" than what I named)?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've never been in a situation like that so I do not know but I can agree with that.</p>

22

<p>I guess you could say that the common interest is, well, a common interest in Greek life. It's a small culture in and of itself, and some people are raised in families where being in a fraternity or sorority is THE thing to do. There is a lot of tradition associated with being in a fraternity or sorority, and some people are attracted to being a part of something that is decades to centuries old. Fraternities began as literary societies (Phi Beta Kappa is actually the first fraternity ever to be founded); sororities began as a way for women to empower themselves on severely male dominated campuses. Clearly, these objectives have changed over the years, but some people want to have a chance to be associated with a strong group of women (admittedly, not all sororities bring out the strength in their women). Some people honestly join for the philanthrophic opportunities - I was actually surprised to find so many girls who are heavily involved in community service and relish spearheading philanthropic endeavors within the chapter. The people who aren't interested in leadership might be more interested in philanthropy, or they might be more interested in partying 5 nights a week. It is honestly whatever you choose to make of it.</p>

<p>Obviously, it's really hard to explain, but I don't feel like I have nothing in common with all of my sisters. Obviously, as in any club, you're friends with some people and not so close with others. You join the tennis club because you're into playing tennis; some people join a capella groups because they're into singing; some people join gaming clubs because they enjoy role playing games; some people join "recreation clubs" because they're into chilling out and having fun (yes, this actually exists on my campus and has a very large membership); some people join Greek orgs because they're into Greek life. You may not agree with or understand any one of the preceding, but I think it's hard to say that one is somehow more "justifiable" than any other.</p>

23

<p>I think a lot of people have a problem with greek life because there are so many negative things about it. Hazing is still a problem at many schools and all the attention its been attracting in the news lately makes greeks look stupid because why would anyone do dumb/gross things like that? obviously not all frats/sororities do this anymore but its probably what the greek system is best known for. secondly many people involved in it have an elitist attitude. proton saying "i think people who knock it are just jealous" just shows the stereotypical ditzy sorority girl with a superiority complex, i'm sure you'll make a great sorority sister. also its funny that most sorority's mission statements are about doing community service but most will only go out and do service once a year. sure there's the philanthropy with throwing parties to raise money but really most consider that another excuse to party and get drunk. some individuals in the system might be really into community service but most greek organizations as a whole are not. also you seem to be convinced that if someone actually knew what greek life was like, they would love it. that's definitely not true. I have friends in many different frats and sororities at different schools, i've hung out at sororities with the sisters, and gone to parties and i'm still unimpressed. I didn't really care one way or the other before but after understanding what they're all about I can see they're really lame. people can join other clubs because of a common interest or talent, but joining a sorority is just being part of a social cliche, trying to fit in and being encouraged to conform.</p>

24

<p>"also you seem to be convinced that if someone actually knew what greek life was like, they would love it."</p>

<p>That is most certainly not what I have been saying at all. In fact, I feel like the theme of my posts has been that Greek life isn't necessarily for everyone, but "live and let live." I am not trying to convince anyone to love Greek life - there are parts I don't appreciate, but that is true with any organization. I do encourage anyone with any interest in it to rush just to see what it's all about, but I fully recognize and understand that many people aren't suited to it and wouldn't enjoy it. The poster I originally replied to seemed to want to know what the purpose of joining a fraternity or sorority was, and so I tried to explain from my own perspective. I would never want someone who hated Greek life to join my sorority.</p>

<p>I understand where proton is coming from because, honestly, people who make a huge effort to talk badly about Greek life make themselves seem insecure about their decision not to participate in it. Do you go on the forums of colleges you didn't like and go off about how "lame" you thought they were once you took the campus tour? I don't care about or understand certain organizations on my campus, but I don't run around preaching about how "lame" they are. Obviously, Greek life is beneficial to some people or the organizations would cease to exist. People who truly don't care about Greek life are more apt to say "Fine for them, but it's not for me," rather than waste time writing insulting posts about something they've only observed from the outside (and yes, going to sorority parties is really only observing the outer layer). If you are truly trying to gain an understanding of something that confuses you, that's one thing, but isn't the student who runs around bashing fraternities and sororities just as much a social cliche as the people who join them?</p>

25

<p>I think Ill join a sorority my freshman year. idk if i'll like it, but I have a few friends who have rushed and they love their sorority... the thing that convinced me to actually join was an award ceremony I went to at the end of senior year. It was put on by a club in our town whose membership includes all of the powerful ppl in town...drs, real estate, etc. anyway, nearly all of them had gone to the state university that I'm going to, and all of them suggested I rush...saying that the connections (business and social) you make are priceless. i mean, think about it. why turn down solid connections with people who will likely turn out to be helpful to you in the future? and turn down the chance for a good time?</p>

26

<p>
[quote]

why turn down solid connections with people who will likely turn out to be helpful to you in the future? and turn down the chance for a good time?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can do the exact same thing by joining other clubs. That opportunity isn't exclusive to just fraternities or sororities.</p>

<p>I guess if you found the right fraternity/sorority to join then it could turn out to be a good experience in the end but like I said, but I'd rather meet people through the things I like to do and not meeting a bunch of random people at parties and not being part of a social cliche trying to fit in (sorry but that is how I see it too).</p>

27

<p>You know, jocks are a social cliche, too. So are nerds. So are political activists. So are people who try their hardest at all times to reject social convention. Greek life is not only about "random people at parties," and for someone who had earlier claimed an honest desire for someone to elucidate the purpose of sororities and fraternities, you sure don't seem very open minded or willing to consider viewpoints from actual Greeks. </p>

<p>Are you trying to tell me that the desire to fit in plays no part in your motivation to participate in the extracurricular activities you choose? We are ALL just trying to fit in, and anyone who claims that they aren't is lying. Who are you to say that one person's means of fitting in is any better or worse than anyone else's?</p>

28

<p>
[quote]

Are you trying to tell me that the desire to fit in plays no part in your motivation to participate in the extracurricular activities you choose? We are ALL just trying to fit in, and anyone who claims that they aren't is lying. Who are you to say that one person's means of fitting in is any better or worse than anyone else's?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I really don't care about 'fitting in' anymore. Having never 'fit in' before, I used to care. I'll admit that, but now days I'd rather just meet the right people in my life and interact with them rather than trying to fit in with everyone. Not better or worse but just someone who simply does not fit in as much for whatever reason.</p>

<p>Having that said, I join those clubs with hopes of meeting some cool people while enjoying the things I do. Maybe I could have the same hopes for a fraternity? I do not know and you're right, I don't know enough to form an intelligent opinion on the matter, but I still see it as just another social cliche and an excuse to party (and maybe once in a while do community service and have leadership opportunities). The community service sounds nice though.</p>

<p>Yes, jocks, nerds, etc. are social cliches but I don't really label myself as any of those things. You only become one of them if you believe in labeling yourself as one of those. Otherwise, you're still an individual.</p>

29

<p>I considered it last semester, but I decided that I honestly don't have the time or money to devote to a sorority. The girls I know in the sororities spend a lot of time with them and for me personally I see it as somewhat of a waste because I need to have time to work, involve myself in other activities, and do my coursework.</p>

30

<p>"Having that said, I join those clubs with hopes of meeting some cool people while enjoying the things I do."</p>

<p>I may be splitting hairs here, but isn't "meeting some cool people" just another, less "needy" sounding way of saying that you want to find a group to fit into? I'm not trying to be a pain, but I stand by my earlier statement that it's basic human nature to want to be part of a group - humans are social animals.</p>

<p>There are various social strata, and everyone falls into one, even (and especially) if they are actively trying not to. The dictionary definition I pulled up of "cliche" is as follows: "A person or character whose behavior is predictable or superficial." So, what exactly do you mean by "social cliche?" Yeah there are people who fit the stereotypes of skanky sorostitute and beer guzzling frat boy, but there are tons of us who aren't "cliches," and even those you deem to be so could surprise you if you got to know them. Basically, as I said in my last post, everyone belongs to a "social cliche." To imply that people that join Greek orgs are mere cliches is, frankly, insulting. Personally, I'm not blonde, I'm not tan, I carry a high GPA, and though I go out on the weekends, it's a rare occasion when I'm out during the school week. And I'm not the only sorority girl like this that I know. Labeling all of us as a "social cliche" is just as wrong as saying "Oh, you're in tennis club? You must be a dumb jock" or "You're into theatre? So you're gay, right?" There are people that prove all of those stereotypes right, but there are also plenty of people who prove them wrong.</p>

<p>sookunfyooz - it is very expensive and can be very time consuming. Everyone has to have priorities, and sometimes, a sorority can't be (or you don't want it to be) one of them. Like I said before, it isn't for everyone. But, diversity on all levels is what makes college so stimulating.</p>

<p>PS: You will be hard pressed to meet a sorority girl or fraternity guy who is willing to label herself or himself as a social cliche, just as you refuse to label yourself. It is almost always others who give us the labels we carry.</p>

31

<p>"isn't the student who runs around bashing fraternities and sororities just as much a social cliche as the people who join them?"</p>

<p>nope. I hope you realize this a college discussion site, not a greek life discussion site. I don't go out of my way to bash greeks all the time because I really don't care much but the topic of this discussion is why or why aren't you joining a sorority and people who dislike the whole concept of greek life have the right to share their opinion. others here were unsure about rushing and you like to talk about what you think are positive aspects, however people considering rushing should know all the negative aspects too. don't be so cocky as to think people care that much about hating greek life that they could be considered an anti-greek cliche, you're not that special that anyone will care to talk about you unless a question comes up like it did here. also that "Who are you to say that one person's means of fitting in is any better or worse than anyone else's?" I would say any mildly intelligent person can judge that there are many better ways to "fit in" then stupid and pointless things like hazing. so yes there are many better ways.</p>

32

<p>You're right, it came off as insulting and I apologize. I guess in the end it's just simply another club like mine. I guess I give in to the stereotype of the beer drinking frat guy and so on. I'm just afraid if I join something like this that it will end up being that way. I know some fraternities are like that but maybe some could end up being a positive experience. How much is it usually? Would I still be able to concentrate on my Computer Science degree and work during the week? I'm not really considering doing this but just want to learn more about them. And you never answered my question earlier, what else do you guys do besides drink, party, and community service? What exactly goes on when you're in one each week?</p>

33

<p>And what is this hazing issue that everyone speaks of?</p>

34

<p>I was never hazed, by the way. It's very ignorant to assume that that is the purpose and practice of every Greek organization. It's also very sad that you can't argue your point without resorting to ad hominem attacks. </p>

<p>"I hope you realize this a college discussion site, not a greek life discussion site. I don't go out of my way to bash greeks all the time because I really don't care much but the topic of this discussion is why or why aren't you joining a sorority and people who dislike the whole concept of greek life have the right to share their opinion."</p>

<p>I'd say if you really didn't care much, you wouldn't have such a strong negative opinion and you wouldn't bother to post on threads like this. This may be a college discussion site, but Greek life, like it or not, is a part of college, and no one forced you to post on this thread - obviously you hold a strong enough opinion that you felt compelled to share it. Like I said before, people who truly don't care about Greek life live and let live. Lots of people responded to the original poster, but no one else's posts are as numerous and vitriolic as yours.</p>

<p>adconard, I have to say that I really appreciate that you were willing to read what I had to say and think about it, and I have enjoyed our discussion. My weekly schedule for my sorority usually goes like this: I eat lunch at the house every day of the school week and dinner there every night but Friday. I go to executive council meeting on Monday nights, where we discuss chapter business and decide whether or not and what kind of action needs to be taken. On Wednesday nights, we have a chapter meeting, where the whole chapter meets to discuss business that pertains to everyone. Sometimes, I attend optional study hours. Other times, we have "all sister events" like a movie night or going out for ice cream or something. We have a 10 hour service requirement each semester, so I spend s.ome time fulfilling that, sometimes with sisters and sometimes on my own. Sometimes, we have major or career nights at dinner, where you sit by table according to your major or career and professors and/or professionals in the area are invited. Oftentimes, we organize to go to a sister's music or dance performance or play. Each weekend, there is usually a mixer or a cocktail to go to, which I may or may not attend - most of the interactions I have with my sisters are sober, believe it or not ;). All this runs me about $1,500. It may or may not seem worth it, but it does give me plenty to do during the week! As far as working, one of my good friends is in the honors program, holds down a part time job to pay her own dues, and manages to fully participate and still make Dean's List every semester, and she's not the only one. It might seem pointless or silly, but it's really just a way to make campus smaller and for many people it serves as a "home away from home." I'm a shy person, so it helped me feel comfortable more quickly and immediately there were so many resources available in the form of sisters who were already involved in the activities I wanted to join who could help me get involved without me having to stick my neck out too much. :)</p>

<p>As far as hazing goes, it's mainly something you have to deal with in fraternities. My boyfriend didn't go through any, but he's not in the "coolest" fraternity. Some of it is really disgusting, but I honestly never had to do a single thing that could be construed as hazing - even scavenger hunts are prohibited now. It's actually not a written requirement to be initiated, and most southern national sororities don't do it any more (can't speak for all national sororities, since my friend who went to school in the northeast was very mildly hazed).</p>

35

<p>its a frat/sorority tradition to haze new members, its like an initation test thing. at my friends sorority, they had to strip down to their underwear and a bunch of frat guys came in and circled all their "problem areas" where they needed to lose weight. other people i've talked to have had to eat gross things, participate in drinking games til they blackout.. a guy friend was locked in a small closet and had to eat or smoke five cigars before they'd let him out. a lot of people have been suing because some people have been hurt or killed in hazing incidents.. a kid at my cousins school drowned when they were forced to go swim in the ocean after they'd drank a lot. obviously all frats/sororities don't have hazing that extreme but some do</p>

36

<p>Not liking the hazing thing. Sounds like the kind of stuff they would make new members do in the movies. =P</p>

<p>I'm mainly just looking for stuff to do on weekends as my campus is dead every weekend and most of the time can't even find a party worth going to. I would be working every Friday night, but Saturday and Sunday would still be wide open for me. I suppose Sunday is always my catch up on homework day, but only thing I could really do on campus during the day on Saturday is go work out at the gym. Most places are closed and pretty much everyone is gone. This was why I was wondering whether a frat could be worth it as it would always give me more options as far as what I could do even on the weekends.</p>

<p>Anyway I feel self-absorbed just talking about me here. I would say if someone joined the right one then it could be a good experience. But wow that is a lot of money. =&lt;/p>

37

<p>ad - I'll be honest, if you want to join a fraternity, hazing is something you might need to be concerned about. There are some sororities that haze, but it's not nearly as prevalent as fraternity hazing.</p>

<p>If you rush or even pledge, you're not committed to the fraternity until you are initiated. If you think you might be interested, you can always "try before you buy." However, if you're just looking for something to do on the weekend but feel ambivalent about Greek life, you might find the whole thing vacuous and wasteful, though you could also find awesome friends who can help you get involved in other things to pass the time during dead weekends. Basically, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, "I would say if someone joined the right one then it could be a good experience." And I would say to anyone that any fraternity that hazes you is not "the right one." Fraternities that don't haze are out there, don't join one that makes you do stupid, humiliating and dangerous things so you can call your tormentors "brother" a few weeks later (I'm not talking about little scavenger hunts here, by the way).</p>

<p>Thanks for your open mindedness. You've really made me think critically about Greek life in order to provide my defense. In the end, I'd say that it's been a good experience for me and, if given the chance, I'd do it again, but it's definitely not for everyone.</p>

38

<p>You're right you can always try before you buy. And believe me I've looked everywhere for things to do every weekend but this place is a suitcase college. Everyone in general either goes home, goes out of the area to see their boyfriend/girlfriend for the weekend, or something like that. I usually end up catching up on other hobbies I have by myself and usually never have people to hang out with. Hopefully my roommates next year won't leave every weekend too.</p>

39

<p>I'm actually an "in-between." I haven't joined a frat but I don't "vehemently oppose" anyone who joins a frat or sorority. I used to think that it was "buying your friends" too but not so much anymore. I just wonder how easy it is to be an INDIVIDUAL in a fraternal system? It seems like there's a lot of pressure to be like everyone else in the fraternity. You're expected to hang out w/ them, participate in all their activities and parties, and even dress and talk like them. So I'm just wondering...so is there any place for independent/noncomformist types in fraternities/sororities (assuming that they might be interested in joining)?</p>

40

<p>It depends on how caught up you get in the reputations of the houses. Sadly, the more "unpopular" houses are usually the ones with the most social diversity. This may seem like a gross generalization, but the guys in the "nerdier" frats seem to have a healthier concept of "brotherhood" and are subjected to significantly less (and sometimes no) hazing, and don't feel pressure to conform to a certain standards. If you can ignore what the guys in the "cool" frats have to say about your fraternity, you can find a really rewarding experience by joining a less popular house. Of course, you could find joining one of the "cool" houses rewarding, too, but your objectives don't really seem in line with what that experience has to offer (let's put it this way: a lot of the "more desirable" fraternities prove the stereotypes right, though there may be some that don't, I don't know - but the ones at my school seem really caught up in being "cool and tough"). To an extent, it's the same with the girls - the noncomformity of the less popular sororities is what earns them that reputation. I find it easy to be an individual in my sorority and there is plenty of social diversity in my opinion, but I'm also not in a house full of rich Barbie dolls who refuse to wear anything besides pearls and polo shirts (though admittedly we do have a few of those). There are varying degrees of how true each organization proves the fraternity/sorority stereotype to be.</p>