rutgers vs. stevens. vs brown. vs cornell

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>monydad,</p>

<p>Very touching, but mostly inaccurate. I’ve been visiting the schools and the firms in that area since 1986. The schools have stayed, nearly all the firms have gone. Most technical colleges have incubators which spawn at least a few successful local start-ups which stay in the area. This was still occurring back in the 80’s and early 90’s, but none of the start-ups spawned by Cornell have stayed… at least none of the ones that use semiconductors. :wink: </p>

<p>There’s a couple/few very small companies with… like… one electrical engineer. There’s a small contract manufacturer. I know all the owners. They are not optimistic. Every one of them thinks Cornell is a great school, but also think the kids should get the heck out of UpstateNY as soon as they have their degrees. There’s no future. There has been a steady technical jobs exodus for the past twenty years. It’s sad. I knew the place when it was exciting with start-ups.</p>

<p>If your only interface is the school/campus and the woods, you won’t see what I see. Keep it that way by not going into town. </p>

<p>Most memorable quote from the video: “This is place where the Sun shines far too little and it snows far too much.”</p>

<p>This video is about a year old? For obvious reasons they failed to mention all the students who hurled themselves into the abyss from “Suicide Bridge.” And since it was made before last year, it couldn’t mention Cornell had to install a net to catch the jumpers because they still got past the fence, the barbed wire, and the obstacles Cornell installed in an attempt to stop it. </p>

<p>Some say the lack of sunlight, along with the obvious stresses, put the poor souls in a fatal depression. I recommend grow bulbs (bulbs that output the natural spectrum of light) in the dorm rooms. Also vitamin D. No joke. I’m serious. If my kid was going there, that’s what I would do.</p>

<p>Think I’m overstating any of this? Google is your friend.</p>

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<p>mostly narrowed it down to Cornell and Stevens a couple days back (probably between these schools unless i have an epiphany) …looking up what research their doing at each of the schools and what graduates are doing on LinkedIn</p>

<p>lets say i go to stevens for undergrad and decide to pursue my masters somewhere that’s more well known…would that degree help expand the geographic horizons of my career? i have the clawing feeling that i’m going to want to move somewhere different after graduation</p>

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<p>Cornell versus Stevens… that is a $176,000 question, isn’t it?</p>

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<p>Sadly there is not just one bridge. Notwithstanding that however, the overall rate for these tragic incidents there is at or below national averages. You’re right, Google is your friend.Those students did not highlight this in their video because that is not the overriding impression what they were left with, at the end of the day. And it likely won’t be OP’s either.</p>

<p>Myself, what I think about is breathing the air on a Fall day and just being amazed at the scenery before me, as I walked to classes. Not whether there were two, or four, engineers working someplace in the outskirts of Ithaca.</p>

<p>There has never been substantial engineering employment in the vicinity of Ithaca, during my whole acquaintance with it. This had no bearing on employment prospects for Cornell engineering grads in my day. Fortunately, Cornell was recruited nationally, not merely regionally.
Many people got internship experiences during summers via the coop program. </p>

<p>I myself chose to take my first job out of college at a large midwestern engineering firm. Like many other such firms, that firm interviewed mostly regionally, and only at selected other engineering schools across the nation. Stevens was not one of them. (RPI was, though).</p>

<p>BTW unless something has changed, payscale data excludes anyone with graduate degrees. Probably 80% of the classmates I personally know from Cornell received a graduate degree, in something, at some point. Besides, compensation rates are related to occupation and region. You can look at it, but the data isn’t very useful as a basis to make an intelligent decision, without applying one’s brain to think critically. IMO.</p>

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<p>"lets say i go to stevens for undergrad and decide to pursue my masters somewhere that’s more well known…would that degree help expand the geographic horizons of my career? i have the clawing feeling that i’m going to want to move somewhere different after graduation "</p>

<p>I believe it absolutely would. Because you would be using their on-campus recruiting to interview for jobs. If it is a school that is recruited nationally, as well as regionally, you would have a better chance to wind up out of region, as I did.</p>

<p>The catch is, you would have to do well enough at your undergrad to be admitted to such a graduate program. And that level of sucess is not guaranteed. It’s not at all impossible though, for an M.Eng. The research degrees are something else again.</p>

<p>The more likely course though, is you will get out, get a job in-region, and find it is not economically wise to go back to school at that point.</p>

<p>You still could get yourself out of region though, eventually, if you get recruited for a subsequent job someplace else in the country.</p>

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<p>monydad,</p>

<p>Cornell’s “normal” suicide rate is a result of averaging their data over decades to make such a claim. The school has spent enormously in recent years on “improvements” to make it difficult to commit suicide in public spaces. Just as enormous is the student outreach… for which they should be commended. They fully realize it’s an issue and are very visibly addressing it. Most notably the nets they recently installed over the ravines.</p>

<p>As for your take on technology in Ithaca and UpstateNY, you must have been too busy to notice… walking in the woods, smelling the trees and being awestruck by their beauty. ;-)</p>

<p>Cornell University, Rensselear Polytechnic, University of Rochester, etc… made upstateNY a technical powerhouse. Major corporations in upstateNY were sucking up graduates and these schools were spitting out local incubator start-ups left and right. I started going up there in 1986 and personally witnessed at least a decade of it. Unfortunately, it’s been a horrific downward slide for the past two decades, with tens upon tens upon tens of thousands of jobs lost. Whole communities destroyed economically.</p>

<p>So… You remember from nearly 40 years ago not only what companies recruited at Cornell and even colleges you didn’t attend (RPI), but you remember they didn’t recruit from Stevens… in particular? Wow! I only wish my memory was that good from my own college experiences 3 decades ago. </p>

<p>But even though I suspect your memory, it makes sense. Stevens is a much smaller school and the outreach is much more personal. Also, I doubt a Midwest firm would be very successful recruiting from metroNY. They couldn’t possibly offer the diversity, opportunity, salary, or experience available here. They would have no choice but to gild their offer to lure people “away from the light.” :wink: </p>

<p>The metroNY region is the most densely populated area in the country. There are more opportunities here in a couple of miles than there are in entire States. I am certain the vast majority of Steven’s graduates wind up in the region, but that’s not because they have no other choice. I highly suspect the same would be true if you looked at Columbia, NYU, Cooper Union, etc… But that wouldn’t make them institutions with limited regional appeal. ;-)</p>

<p>This isn’t Ithaca, where the nearest career opportunity is more than 200 miles away and the only option it to be remotely recruited. This is the holy land. This is where people want to come. Many major national and international corporations have a significant presence here. This makes all those companies “locals” to Stevens. There are internships, CoOps and job opportunities in these organizations locally, nationally, and internationally every year.</p>

<p>This same claim about recruitment days is echoed by every other large school unfortunate enough to be hundreds of miles away from population centers. They all claim to offer the holy grail of employment because of the recruitment… because that’s all they have. There is no local tech economy to absorb them. </p>

<p>The real truth is these are all outstanding universities. None of these kids are going jobless. None of them are pigeon-holed in any region. That’s just your opinion/ego/pride talking. The data doesn’t back you up in the least. All the salaries, opportunities for growth, and opportunities to live wherever they want…anywhere in the world… are equally impressive. The data from payscale supports this. The data provided by these institutions themselves support this.</p>

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<p>spacygirl,</p>

<p>It’s time you called both Universities and did some of this research about regional appeal versus national appeal yourself. </p>

<p>Don’t just look at the percentages of students who got jobs close to the university. As I mentioned to monydad, Cornell students have no choice. They are attending a school is a depressed area and have no local options. They MUST migrate away, so the percentage of them spreading over the country will be quite high. It has to be. This does not mean universities in “the” metro hub of our country, whose graduates tend to stay local, has only limited regional appeal. IMHO, that’s simply a ridiculous self-serving premise. </p>

<p>Only the placement offices can give you the “real” data. If you are interested in different parts of the country, ask if any graduates were placed in those areas and for what salaries. Take note of the type of company and opportunity they presented to the graduate. </p>

<p>I think you’re running out of time to do this research. :-)</p>

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<p>

Yes, it certainly would, if you attended a graduate school in a different region or with a national reputation. Generally, the last school you attend is the most important one when job hunting. And if you attend Stevens and do well there, you will be well-positioned when applying to graduate school, since it has a lot of undergrad research opportunities.</p>

<p>How confident are you that you will stay in engineering, and not switch to another major? Cornell has strong programs across the board, while Stevens is more limited to tech fields. </p>

<p>If your family can afford Cornell, that is where I would lean. Cornell has a very strong engineering reputation, plus lots of other very strong programs. If you think you would move to another region of the country, I think you’ll find that a Cornell degree is much more portable than a Stevens one.</p>

<p>Good luck on making your decision - not a lot of time left to decide.</p>

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<p>This is not comparing Cornell to a local community college for Pete’s sake.</p>

<p>The schools we are talking about in this thread are all very well respected engineering/tech schools. You will be able to go just about anywhere you want. And if you do well, you’ll be able to enter just about any graduate program.</p>

<p>Additionally, attending an engineering college in/around NYC presents interactions with, and opportunities at, international organizations not easily available at distantly located universities.</p>

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<p>Here is my impression, as an RPI educated engineer on the West Coast: Stevens has great regional appeal if you are in the NY Metro area. Cost of living is high there so starting salaries will also be high. The vast majority of people in this country will not move to the NY metro area under any circumstance; there are plenty of great colleges close to NYC (and some of the best HS) where industries can hire locally.</p>

<p>A Stevens degree on a resume, out here in Seattle, will be put near the bottom of the pile unless you have great experience and recommendations to go along with it. It will not be considered better than Rutgers and definitely considered below UW. Cornell, on the other hand, will put you on top of the pile, along with Stanford and Berkeley grads. It has national and worldwide cache that the others lack.</p>

<p>Don’t get me wrong, you have nothing but good choices. Stevens vs. Cornell, if those are your final two choices, are very different experiences and at very different prices. At Stevens, you would be surrounded by other pre-professional engineering students in an urban environment. At Cornell, you would be surrounded by multi-discipline Cornell students in a pretty (but somewhat depressed) upstate NY town. The engineering curriculum is hard enough that the comfort of the seating in the library could be the deciding factor. If seeing people pay for groceries with an EBT card is a deal killer for you, Ithaca doesn’t really have wealthy neighborhoods. When I was a student in Troy, NY, I volunteered in the projects - it’s all perspective.</p>

<p>By the way, I did some design work for Ithaco Space Systems in, you guessed it, Ithaca, NY. [Attitude</a> Control](<a href=“http://spinoff.nasa.gov/spinoff1997/t2.html]Attitude”>Attitude Control | NASA Spinoff) They have some pretty smart Cornell engineering grads.</p>

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<p>The nets were installed following a completely abnormal “cluster” of such incidents, which sadly is a known phenomenon. It occured around 2010, following four years with no such incidents whatsoever. The thing that skewed the long-term average is that recent cluster, not the longer period average itself. The nets were a particular response to that cluster, but are a good thing on balance anyway, anything that may help reduce incidents. However IMO the longer term perspective is appropriate here,and OP should not reasonably expect to find herself standing in line to go over a gorge bridge, is the bottom line. </p>

<p>None of the engineering classmates I knew took jobs in upstate New York. While it’s true that a number of upstate cities have suffered, unlike those cities, Ithaca is, and was, a college town dominated by the colleges there, not industry, and things there look very much the same as they did years ago. But I am repeating myself.</p>

<p>We all necessarily must reach some conclusions based on perceptions derived from drive-by information. But at the end of the day, people on an internet forum just have to decide for themselves who to believe.</p>

<p>In conclusion here are some pictures so readers can judge for themselves just how horrible and ugly it is there. </p>

<p>[Top</a> 10s | Visit Ithaca, NY](<a href=“http://www.visitithaca.com/top-10s.html]Top”>http://www.visitithaca.com/top-10s.html)</p>

<p>[Buttermilk</a> Creek, Ithaca, New York State, USA Photographic Print by Panoramic Images at AllPosters.com](<a href=“'Buttermilk Creek, Ithaca, New York State, USA' Photographic Print | AllPosters.com”>'Buttermilk Creek, Ithaca, New York State, USA' Photographic Print | AllPosters.com)</p>

<p>[Buttermilk</a> Falls - a set on Flickr](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/sets/72157619804418326/]Buttermilk”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/sets/72157619804418326/)
[Upstate</a> NY / A 215 ft. tall waterfall in Ithaca, New York. By Mark Papke.](<a href=“http://pinterest.com/pin/173247916887167076/]Upstate”>http://pinterest.com/pin/173247916887167076/)
[Taughannock</a> Falls State Park | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/tonyshi/8686343095/]Taughannock”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/tonyshi/8686343095/)
[Ithaca</a> Falls, Tompkins County, Ithaca, New York, USA Photographic Print by Panoramic Images at AllPosters.com](<a href=“'Ithaca Falls, Tompkins County, Ithaca, New York, USA' Photographic Print | AllPosters.com”>'Ithaca Falls, Tompkins County, Ithaca, New York, USA' Photographic Print | AllPosters.com)
[Ithaca</a> Falls Natural Area - Pictures, Maps, Info](<a href=“http://www.nyfalls.com/ithacafalls.html]Ithaca”>Ithaca Falls Natural Area (Ithaca, NY) Waterfall Guide)
[Joe</a> Braun Photography - Gorges of the Finger Lakes!](<a href=“http://www.citrusmilo.com/fingerlakes/2009b.cfm]Joe”>http://www.citrusmilo.com/fingerlakes/2009b.cfm)
[Waterfall</a> Swimming Hole Ithaca Video - YouTube](<a href=“Waterfall Swimming Hole Ithaca Video - YouTube”>Waterfall Swimming Hole Ithaca Video - YouTube)
[Cliff</a> Jumping Ithaca, Ny 2011 - YouTube](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)
[Cornell</a> Night Panorama | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/mhaithaca/441586908/]Cornell”>Cornell Night Panorama | Shot from Cass Park across the lake… | Flickr)
<a href=“http://www.roadfood.com/photos/6572.jpg[/url]”>http://www.roadfood.com/photos/6572.jpg&lt;/a&gt;
[Ithaca</a>, NY at Night - SkyscraperPage Forum](<a href=“Ithaca, NY at Night - SkyscraperPage Forum”>Ithaca, NY at Night - SkyscraperPage Forum)</p>

<p>here’s some shots on or near the Cornell Campus:
[warm</a> colors on a cool day. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/matt_hintsa/4068847233/]warm”>warm colors on a cool day. | Arts Quad, Cornell University, … | Flickr)
[beebe</a> symmetry. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/matt_hintsa/4068790417/]beebe”>beebe symmetry. | Beebe Lake, Cornell University, Ithaca, Ne… | Flickr)
[sackett</a> footbridge. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/matt_hintsa/4065141611/]sackett”>sackett footbridge. | Beebe Lake, Cornell University, Ithaca… | Flickr)
[fall</a> on north campus. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/matt_hintsa/4064604105/]fall”>fall on north campus. | North Campus, Cornell University, It… | Flickr)
[File:Ithaca</a> Hemlock Gorge.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ithaca_Hemlock_Gorge.JPG]File:Ithaca”>File:Ithaca Hemlock Gorge.JPG - Wikipedia)
[Photo:</a> CU campus- Clock Tower | Gallery ( group 1 ) album | Barry De Libero of DELIBERO PHOTO SERVICE | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.](<a href=“http://public.fotki.com/greybear/photographs/image_015.html]Photo:”>Photo: CU campus- Clock Tower | Gallery ( group 1 ) album | Barry De Libero photos | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.)
[Photo:</a> CU Campus_ ClockTower | Gallery ( group 1 ) album | Barry De Libero of DELIBERO PHOTO SERVICE | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.](<a href=“http://public.fotki.com/greybear/photographs/image_016.html]Photo:”>Photo: CU Campus_ ClockTower | Gallery ( group 1 ) album | Barry De Libero photos | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.)
<a href=“http://public.fotki.com/greybear/grey_bear_gallery_-/fall-creek-stewart-ave.html[/url]”>http://public.fotki.com/greybear/grey_bear_gallery_-/fall-creek-stewart-ave.html&lt;/a&gt;
[Sunset</a> Over Ithaca | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/8073255106/]Sunset”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/8073255106/)
[Waterfall</a> ---- Ithaca, NY | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/70063259@N00/188779972/]Waterfall”>Waterfall ---- Ithaca, NY | I do not know the name of this w… | Flickr)
[Triphammer</a> Falls | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/6265083679/in/set-72157622622226118]Triphammer”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/6265083679/in/set-72157622622226118)
[Obligatory</a> Cascadilla Shot | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/6256359863/in/set-72157622622226118]Obligatory”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/6256359863/in/set-72157622622226118)
[Arts</a> Quad Morning | Flickr - Photo Sharing!](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/5021349067/in/set-72157624902910927]Arts”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/5021349067/in/set-72157624902910927)
[Old</a> Ithaca/Cayuga Lake Area - a set on Flickr](<a href=“http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/sets/72157624902910927/?page=2]Old”>http://www.■■■■■■■■■■/photos/ess_el/sets/72157624902910927/?page=2)
<a href=“http://vimeo.com/10818723[/url]”>http://vimeo.com/10818723&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It’s so ugly, people come there regularly to get married! e.g.:
[Ithaca</a> Wedding Photographer ? Tim & Ellen?s January Wedding](<a href=“http://www.johnlarkinphotography.com/blog/ithaca-wedding-photographer-tim-ellens-january-wedding/]Ithaca”>Ithaca Wedding Photographer – Tim & Ellen’s January Wedding)</p>

<p>Relapse over, reminded of why I don’t do this anymore. Good luck to OP.</p>

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<p>[Darn, I forgot the lake, how’d that happen!]
[Cayuga</a> Lake Photo](<a href=“http://web.archive.org/web/20081015172841/http://www.kristen-mark.net/ithaca/cayuga.html]Cayuga”>Cayuga Lake Photo)
[Sunrise</a> Over Cayuga Lake Photograph by Everet Regal - Sunrise Over Cayuga Lake Fine Art Prints and Posters for Sale](<a href=“Wall Art You'll Love in 2023 | Fine Art America”>Sunrise over Cayuga Lake Photograph by Everet Regal - Fine Art America)
[Photo:</a> PICT0062 | Gallery / Group 2 album | Barry De Libero of DELIBERO PHOTO SERVICE | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.](<a href=“http://public.fotki.com/greybear/grey_bear_gallery_-/pict0062.html]Photo:”>Photo: On Cayuga Lake - Cornell University in the background | Gallery / Group 2 album | Barry De Libero photos | Fotki.com, photo and video sharing made easy.)
[Cayuga</a> Lake views](<a href=“http://www.warmus.com/cayuga_lake_views.htm]Cayuga”>Cayuga Lake views)</p>

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<p>We spent a few days exploring the Ithaca environs and we thought it was beautiful. The campus was amazing- the scenery, the facilities… Ithaca itself is clearly a town that is dominated by servicing the needs of college students (Cornell and Ithaca). The word “depressed” never came to mind, though it did for Troy, and Schenectady.
The Finger Lakes area is beautiful.</p>

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<p>“Did you drive the area? Or did you just stay on campus?” - Actually we lived near Binghamtom (one hour from Ithaca) for 8 years. That was about 20 years ago, but we did a summer visit about 8 years ago with the kids. I learned the “Ithacate” precipation term on these CC threads. </p>

<p>The Cornell campus was too sprawling for my tastes. And at least in my day, they had a shortage of housing on campus. A good friend had to move to an apartment starting her sophomore year. But when we lived in the vicinity, we truly loved the scenery and state parks in the Finger Lakes area.</p>

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<p>spacygirl - what was the final decision and why?</p>

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<p>colorado_mom,</p>

<p>I never said the nature around the area was ugly. In fact, early on in this thread, I said if you like the outdoors, Cornell offers that. </p>

<p>You’ve been confused by monydad, who keeps changing the context of the discussion by posting pictures of nature, while I’m taking about actually living in the area… going downtown, shopping, nightlife, etc… You know… all that other stuff people do. The area is economically depressed and generally unsafe. I would not have my child out in town past dusk.</p>

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<p>spacygirl - We’d love to know your decision :wink: </p>

<p>We enjoyed hanging in downtown Ithaca for dinner with the kids. But that was about 8 years ago, and it was summer so still daylight. So I can’t make a current schoolyear, night safety judgement. Certainly there were city schools (Case, CMU, Northeastern) that worried us at first, but we kept them on the list.</p>

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<p>hello! lol its been awhile-got caught up with ap testing. anyway i finally decided to cornell! its cheesy, but at the end, i went with what felt right! i can’t wait!!!</p>

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<p>MaiKai, what in the world is your problem with Ithaca? We get it that you like Hoboken better than Ithaca, fine, but is that really a reason to slam it so much? I feel the need to put up a defense so the young folks here looking for useful information don’t read all of this and only get your distorted view of the place. I don’t live there and have no relationship to Cornell but at some point I have to call BS when I see it….</p>

<p>“Cornell is in the arm pit of New York.”</p>

<p>I’ve lived in upstate a long time and have spent a lot of time in other parts of the country and in no way, shape or form is Ithaca the armpit of anything. Upstate has had it’s issues (thanks Albany!) but you are making it come off like some third world country! Frankly, much of the MetroNY area has much more in the way of “armpits” – some just a short walk from Hoboken! </p>

<p>“All the cold weather comes about a month earlier and all the warm weather comes about a month later than NYC. It will be cold and gray for the vast majority of the school year. Some kids have trouble coping with this. There is a bridge some children have thrown themselves off. It’s known as Suicide Bridge.” </p>

<p>Sure it’s colder/grayer in Ithaca than NYC, but do you really need to add the slam(s) about the suicides? Rather tastless, really. Sad to say, suicides occur everywhere – it’s tragic. But in Ithaca, it tends to happen at the gorges and is very public, so it gets a lot of attention in this small town and makes the news. Gotta love the media. If it was happening in the dorm rooms or other private spaces, it would be unknown. But there is no data that says it is more frequent there or has anything to do with the weather. The averaging over decades you mention includes other bumps in the rate just like in 2010. And why don’t I ever hear about similar problems at Syracuse, Colgate, Cortland, RIT, Binghamton etc if it’s the weather?</p>

<p>I didn’t sense the OP was concerned about the weather anyways, otherwise Ga Tech, U of Arizona or UC San Diego etc would have been on her list :-). The northeast’s weather is what it is. </p>

<p>“And did you guys even bother to go into town. They have one (1) gentrified street in town. The rest of the place is run down and looks as economically challenged as it is.”</p>

<p>In terms of the area at the bottom of the hill, sure. This is the older part of the town and like most towns, small cities, large cities etc, these parts of town are economically challenged and kind of run down. And sure, there are parts most folks should not go to. But you say “the rest of the place” – ever been to Cayuga Heights? Lansing? They may not be Greenwich, but come on.</p>

<p>““Downtown" has one gentrified street which the town funded in a futile attempt to make somewhere/anywhere in town the least bit tolerable. This is where you would be directed to “see Ithaca.” I suggest going an additional 100 yards in any direction. ;-)”</p>

<p>I do. And I have never had a problem. </p>

<p>Yes, the Ithaca Commons is one gentrified street but there are lots of other interesting businesses down the hill not on this street. Yes there is older housing in this area and may not live up to your standards, but if you fear this, I don’t know how to help you. You make it out like this is all there is in Ithaca. If you don’t like that neighborhood, stay up on the hill, go to the mall, Collegetown, Wegmans, whatever… problem solved.</p>

<p>“(Troy is worse than Ithaca!)”
Yes it is – I lived there for four years going to RPI. But you know what, it was fine. Staying away from the nasty parts of Troy was easy – no need to go there. Plenty of other places to go and things to do. Never had a problem with living there.</p>

<p>“Some say the lack of sunlight, along with the obvious stresses, put the poor souls in a fatal depression. I recommend grow bulbs (bulbs that output the natural spectrum of light) in the dorm rooms. Also vitamin D. No joke. I’m serious. If my kid was going there, that’s what I would do.
Think I’m overstating any of this? Google is your friend.”</p>

<p>I thought this was actually kind of humorous until I got to the part about how you were serious about it. Hey, if it works for you, whatever. You know when it’s cold and wintry, what do most people do up this way? Go outside. Enjoy it. Ski. Ice Skate. Snowmobile. Or stay in and study, read a book, go to a museum, a gym, a concert, a restaurant, a coffee shop, a hockey game….</p>

<p>“This isn’t Ithaca, where the nearest career opportunity is more than 200 miles away and the only option it to be remotely recruited.”</p>

<p>Wow – that’s an amazing slam. Being in the semiconductor business, you should know that’s BS. And you keep repeating it! While the Ithaca startup scene may not have much going for it these days (thanks again Albany for stifiling enterpenuership), other nearby areas do! Google is my friend too…</p>

<p>Lockheed Martin, Owego, NY – 30 miles
BAE Systems, Endicott, NY – 40 miles
Corning Inc, Corning, NY - 40 miles
Welch Allyn, Skaneateles Falls - 50 Miles
Lockheed, Sensis, Anaren, and SRC, Syracuse – 60 miles
Xerox, Harris RF, Kodak (ya I know), U of R Medical Center – 85 miles
GE Global Research – Niskayuna - 160 miles
Sematech – Albany 160 miles
Global Foundries, Malta, NY – 180 miles
IBM Mid Hudson Valley – 200 miles. </p>

<p>Yes I know Ithaca isn’t in the Hudson Valley, but you made the 200 miles statement, not me.</p>

<p>I work at one of the above places, about to issue requirements to buy several million dollars of semiconductor products. Maybe I know you. Or at least maybe you should know me ;-). The guy at the desk next to mine is a Cornell grad as are many others here. And there are opportunies here - we have open reqs right now for college new hires. We are doing cool tech stuff – stuff you have heard about. The leader in it’s industry. Is UpstateNY Silicon Valley? - no, but you are overstating things. A lot.</p>

<p>“This same claim about recruitment days is echoed by every other large school unfortunate enough to be hundreds of miles away from population centers. They all claim to offer the holy grail of employment because of the recruitment… because that’s all they have. There is no local tech economy to absorb them. As I mentioned to monydad, Cornell students have no choice.”</p>

<p>So what? We recruit here very well from lots of places, not just the local colleges. Cornell, RPI, RIT, SUNY Binghamton, SUNY Buffalo, Union, Syracuse, Clarkson, Lehigh, Drexel, Penn State, MIT, NJIT, NYU-Poly, Michigan, Ohio State, Purdue, UVa and yes even Stevens. And no, we don’t have to pay a premium to get people to move here. Companies will pay the relatively small cost of recruiting at a distance to get the right people into their business. A plane ticket really isn’t that much.</p>

<p>Most students at Cornell come from the east coast cities and most will go back to them when they are done. It’s always been that way. But somehow Cornell and other schools have managed to thrive in spite of that. Maybe there is a benefit from having that distance. Hey, I don’t disagree there are advantages of going to school in the big city, but you are making it out like it’s all or nothing. </p>

<p>“You’ve been confused by monydad, who keeps changing the context of the discussion by posting pictures of nature, while I’m taking about actually living in the area… going downtown, shopping, nightlife, etc… You know… all that other stuff people do.”</p>

<p>Well I actually live in an area like Ithaca and have spent plenty of time in Ithaca too and have no problem going downtown, shopping, nightlife – stuff that people do. Plus I get to enjoy the nature nearby (hiking, fishing, mountain biking, golf), my short easy commute, the extra time with my family – you know - other stuff people do. Just maybe not you. Plus I can be in Times Square (or Hoboken) in 3 hrs if I want to enjoy the big city life. Not a bad life…</p>

<p>“The area is economically depressed and generally unsafe. I would not have my child out in town past dusk.”</p>

<p>First off, the only reason for a Cornell student to be in the truly ”unsafe” parts of town are to do something illegal. And for someone who believes NYC and Hoboken are the ultimate places to live, I find it laughable that you feel unsafe in the Ithaca Commons. My recommendation to my children would be to never walk alone anywhere past dusk – Ithaca commons, the mall, or even campus unless there is a good number of other people around. That will hold true no matter where they end up going to school.</p>

<p>“This is the holy land. This is where people want to come.” </p>

<p>No not everyone……not even close…… for Wall Steet and Broadway types maybe, but technology – not as much as you seem to think.</p>

<p>Look, there is no doubt the MetroNY area has tons of opportunity and can be a tremedous place to live, but depending on your technical and personal interests, other regions may offer better opportunities. While many large firms have a prescence in the area, they may not have any R&D in the area. Silicon Valley, Boston, Texas, SoCal, RDU, Atlanta and even UpstateNY all offer many many opportunities unavailable in MetroNY. </p>

<p>As MonyDad said:</p>

<p>“We all necessarily must reach some conclusions based on perceptions derived from drive-by information. But at the end of the day, people on an internet forum just have to decide for themselves who to believe.”</p>

<p>Well now you have it from someone who lives nearby. Cornell and Ithaca may not be for everyone – that’s fine. But it’s not the armpit Maikai seems to enjoy making it out to be. </p>

<p>And I am glad your son is happy at Stevens – it’s a good school and sounds like a good fit. And that is what is important. And SpacyGirl congratulations on your selection and good luck with your future. Sounds like you have a bright future ahead of you. </p>

<p>Besides his bashing of Ithaca, Maikai did provide some interesting discussion. But why someone feels the need to bash another city/region on a forum like this is beyond me. He seems to just be regurgitating all of the long standing urban legends floating around about Upstate NY. I don’t usually feed the internet trolls, but sometimes I got to step up and call them as I see them.</p>

<p>Peace </p>

<p>BearInHoney</p>

<p>P.S. It was a beautiful sunny day up here today!</p>

80

<p>BearInHoney, I find it ironic you call someone (me) a ■■■■■ then sign off with “Peace”. I suppose I’m a ■■■■■ simply because I have a different view of Ithaca and upstateNY than you do. Interesting mindset.</p>

<p>I’ll try to address your concerns.</p>

<p>“… only get your distorted view of the place…”</p>

<p>Why is my view the distorted one? Because it disagrees with yours? I too am VERY familiar with upstateNY. I’ve been doing business there for decades and have witnessed it’s decline (which started well before I started doing business there). I too am trying to give young people and their parents a realistic view of the area. The entire area surrounding Ithaca is economically depressed. Even Ithaca, which relies heavily on Cornell is depressed with regards to anything outside the school. The economic state up there isn’t a matter of opinions. It’s a matter of fact.</p>

<p>“Frankly, much of the MetroNY area has much more in the way of ‘armpits’ – some just a short walk from Hoboken!”</p>

<p>Yes, all regions have not-so-great areas. I could have over-played that angle. </p>

<p>“Sure it’s colder/grayer in Ithaca than NYC, but do you really need to add the slam(s) about the suicides? Rather tastless, really…”</p>

<p>We agree. It’s colder and grayer in Ithaca, no doubt! Tasteless? Really? You’d leave out something as important as a high suicide rate when you talk to kids and their parents about attending a particular school?! :-/</p>

<p>Actually the suicide data is available. Cornell’s official rate is just about average… except for the fact they had to average many decades of data to get there. If they use just the last ten years, they push the top of the stats. IMHO, the reason we don’t see similar things at Syracuse, Colgate, Cortland, RIT, Binghamton and others, is because the kids aren’t under as much pressure there. If you can’t hack it at Cornell, you leave an Ivy. Ranking systems have hyped and glorified these schools to the point that kids feel like their lives will be worthless if they don’t make it through. It’s sad.</p>

<p>“The northeast’s weather is what it is.” </p>

<p>Not exactly. If you look at a horticultural map, you can better see the stark difference UpstateNY has with the rest of the Northeast. ([USDA</a> Plant Hardiness Zone Map](<a href=“USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map”>USDA Plant Hardiness Zone Map)) Nobody should even begin to believe the weather in Ithaca will be anything but far colder, darker and drearier than the weather in NYC, Harford, or even Boston.</p>

<p>“But you say ‘the rest of the place’ – ever been to Cayuga Heights? Lansing?”</p>

<p>These are neighborhoods, are they not? Is there a “downtown” associated with these neighborhoods? Do you mean the small mall (small, relative to malls where I live)? I reserve the right to be wrong. :wink: I’m not at all aware of any other downtown type areas that kids could frequent.</p>

<p>“ If you don’t like that neighborhood, stay up on the hill, go to the mall, Collegetown, Wegmans, whatever… problem solved.”</p>

<p>OK… anyone reading this must realize you just made my point for me. Wegman’s? Seriously? C’mon! They could also go cow tipping, I guess. :wink: </p>

<p>“I thought this was actually kind of humorous until I got to the part about how you were serious about it.” (In response to my mentioning of light therapy for SAD - seasonal affective disorder) </p>

<p>You cannot be serious. First, depressed people don’t just decide to break their depression and go skiing. Second, SAD is due to the reduced amount of sunlight in Winter. Make fun all you want, but kids (especially from the South) have an issue with the limited daylight hours. This is amplified by the very common overcast during winter in UpstateNY. The lake effect can make snow, but it seems to always make clouds. Ithaca and the area in general is really gray in Winter.</p>

<p>[List of companies in UpstateNY] “Yes I know Ithaca isn’t in the Hudson Valley, but you made the 200 miles statement, not me.”</p>

<p>If you had any knowledge of the companies on your list, you’d know they mostly in decline. You wrote “ya, I know” for Kodak, but you should have that comment on a lot of them. Some of these companies are shells of what they once were, with a few exceptions thrown in (Sematech and Global). Harris seems up lately, after a long slide. Corning is probably doing well with gorilla glass. But these can’t make up for the rest of what’s going on upstateNY. Do you want me to list upstate companies that have either shut their doors or moved away entirely? </p>

<p>You actually missed a few good companies. Fisher-Price, Carrier, Honeywell (Scanning), etc… I never meant to say there was nothing upstateNY. Clearly, there is business. I’m called to assist up there quite a bit. My point is the area has had a negative technical/engineering/science job growth for quite some time. I’ll argue the area, as a whole, as been in decline, continues to be in decline, and will remain in decline for the foreseeable future.</p>

<p>“I work at one of the above places…”</p>

<p>OK. Let’s say… for whatever crazy reason… you were laid off tomorrow. Are you really so confident in the tech market upstate that you would not have to move your family to find a position of equal value? The truth is there aren’t a lot of tech jobs and there isn’t a lot of turn-over. People with tech jobs upstateNY tend to hold on to them. This is in contrast to the metro corridor. There is enough critical mass of companies and tech jobs here that people move around all the time. </p>

<p>Actually, you want to know me. With my connections in the semi industry, I’ve been of great assistance to many people’s careers. And I’m always glad to help match good people with good companies. ;-)</p>

<p>“…Hey, I don’t disagree there are advantages of going to school in the big city, but you are making it out like it’s all or nothing…” </p>

<p>You’ve lost context. I was responding to people implying that a degree from Cornell has more of a National demand than another college. The recruiting conferences were used as an example of that. I was simply saying the recruiting conferences are a “must have” for colleges remotely located (with respect to industry and population). I’m not saying Cornell is at a disadvantage. My point was the metro located schools were not at a disadvantage for not having grandiose recruiting fairs… they don’t need them. If I implied otherwise, I over-spoke. </p>

<p>“ and have no problem going downtown, shopping, nightlife – stuff that people do. Plus I get to enjoy the nature nearby (hiking, fishing, mountain biking, golf), my short easy commute, the extra time with my family – you know - other stuff people do. Just maybe not you. Plus I can be in Times Square (or Hoboken) in 3 hrs if I want to enjoy the big city life. Not a bad life…”</p>

<p>Again, I think you lost context. My comments meant to compare a school near the city versus Cornell. People kept talking about walking in the woods. Great! Just as one cannot argue the outdoor life at Cornell is superior to a metro located school, there is no argument that the social scene, nightlife, shopping, and anything else along those lines are far superior for a metro located school. That’s the point I was trying to make and I stick by it. You simply can’t begin to argue the nightlife prospects of a Cornell student rivals that of a Stevens, NYU, Columbia, Cooper Union, etc… student.</p>

<p>“My recommendation to my children would be to never walk alone anywhere past dusk”
Point made. I agree.</p>

<p>“…for Wall Steet and Broadway types maybe, but technology – not as much as you seem to think.” </p>

<p>Actually the total available market for semiconductors in the MetroNY region eclipses upstate. From your work description, you probably have access to the numbers to confirm this.</p>

<p>“… While many large firms have a presence in the (NYC) area, they may not have any R&D in the area.” </p>

<p>Not sure why this is being said. Maybe lost context again? My point was never that NYC was the Mecca for tech jobs. We have an awful lot… far, far more than you seem to indicate, but my point was simply NYC was the gateway to the world. Again, that was in defense of people saying career opps were not as good for a metro based school compared to Cornell. In fact, they might be better for a metroNY based school, because of the proximity to so many world-wide companies.</p>