S24's Journey (3.5, learning disabilities)

It is not actually on the lake - it is about a 15-20 min drive from campus to Raystown Lake (Juniata has a field station there where environmental science kids can spend a semester - not sure about other majors). The annual Mountain Day event is at Raystown Lake.

St. Mary’s is an LAC (that happens to be public). From their website:

“As The National Public Honors College, St. Mary’s College of Maryland offers an undergraduate liberal arts education and small-college experience”

I have visited and also know 2 students there and it feel every bit as “private” as any other small private.

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We just finished up a couple college tour rounds in the Northeast for S24.

Concur with all the good things @nichols51 says about Wheaton College.

Also, I don’t know if you checked any of the following colleges and have already discounted them but we found them surprisingly appealing.

Drew University - attractive, quiet campus with plenty of green space, great downtown in walkable distance with train to NYC that takes about 45 mins.

Sarah Lawrence - Same advantages as Drew in many ways. Less diverse than Drew University.

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Thanks to all for the thoughts and suggestions!

I do feel some stress about the fact that we haven’t visited more schools…I would almost second guess our decision to travel for spring break instead of doing college visits, but it was such a special trip. S24 was in heaven. For most other weekends and breaks, he needs to be in town for running. We can do summer visits, end of August visits, or maybe he’ll decide to apply to his whole growing list and see where he gets in!

I totally did not know that the train goes from NY Penn to Madison, NJ (Drew University) every hour and only takes an hour! That makes for a very easy visit.

Fredericksburg is more like 5+ hours if you do the whole trip by train (depending on connection in DC), but that is a much more pleasant option compared to flying/driving.

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S24 just told me to get train tickets for New London for tomorrow so we can go back to Conn College. He found their museum studies program online and was curious, so he wrote some emails, and now he has set up meetings with either one or two students to meet and chat about it and the school. He also wants to check out the town (we didn’t before), an exhibit at the school gallery, and the historic submarine. I warned him that the weather looks terrible, but he doesn’t mind. I will report back.

For everyone who has cautioned us about academic pressure in college, or suggested schools where work/life balance might be better, thank you. We are ruminating about this issue (well, I am! S24 and DH, not so much.) S24 wants a well-rounded life in college, and of course he doesn’t not want to be stressed out. However, he currently attends a competitive NY public school where all his friends and teammates are highly qualified, “average excellent” students, and he’s not feeling pressured, stressed or demoralized.

It is important to S24 to go to a college where most students love their school and have a sense of pride/loyalty/tradition. He also wants a place with alumni involvement, and he would like to enjoy events, reunions, and mentoring when he is an alum (he has relatives who love this). It worries me that Forbes gives most colleges on his list a C+ or C financially. Only Lafayette, Washington College, Franklin & Marshall, and Dickinson get Bs. I’m not sure whether including schools with a D rating is a good idea.

Here’s a quote from the article that worries me about schools reacting to the pandemic:

"They are subsidizing their operating deficits with federal support money and doing other things—decreasing cash balances, increasing endowment draws, and in some cases, taking out more debt. All of those are unsustainable strategies,” Friga said. “I anticipate that we are in for a very rocky road over the next five to 10 years, especially for small to medium private and public colleges.”

In case people are curious, you can type any college into the box above the table, and the methodology is at the bottom of the article.

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Different people handle stress differently - but college will be stressful. It may be major, school dependent…but there will be stress.

I would look at a bond rating before I would worry about a Forbes rating. Moody’s rates it A2 - very solid. Washington College in Maryland…lots of cut backs due to financial issues. Not saying they won’t be solvent…but that’s a whole different situation. Can’t find their bond rating.

Good luck.

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Ratings agency ratings are intended to determine the likelihood (incorporating risk factors) of an issuer of debt being able to repay that debt obligation including principal and interest. In the case of college rankings they are only provided when underlying debt exists and the fees associated with them are paid for by the issuer (in this case the college). Not all schools have debt ratings! The analysis that goes into these ratings is dynamic (forward and backwards looking). Stated simply they are primarily useful in determining credit worthiness (will I get my money back if I buy the rated securities).

Forbes is more general, matrix driven and static. It considers student experience. The goal is a financial “health” rating. A school can be financially unhealthy but still capable of paying back debt. Unhealthy schools however can adjust the student experience to offset costs and impact students, faculty and facilities.

In some ways both serve a purpose. Ratings agencies offer detailed insight and predict long term solvency. Forbes uses a blunt instrument to predict potential future adverse student experiences (among other things) and future financial problems or limitations.

Hope this helps clarify.

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Super easy! I grew up there, and we didn’t say we were going to New York. We said we were going to the city. It’s very close. It’s a feature of Drew. The same train station will get you a train down to Princeton.

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If not already mentioned, Juniata also has a museum studies program.

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Seems like a lot of the small private LACs that are not “high or highest” tier/targets for a B student has a C+ or below…

Looking forward to hearing how the visit to Conn College went!

Also, if you haven’t seen it before, College Tables has some really interesting information, including several pieces of financial info from the last 10 years such as:

Revenue from tuition and fees
Revenue minus expenses
Revenue
Expenses
Assets

It also shows trends in enrollment, teaching (including tenure track vs. non-tenure track), and several other fields. It might be helpful in getting a better sense of the school’s likely stability and how any financial factors are impacting students.

@tsbna44 Solvency and student experience are different, but related, right? I guess the long term (30-60 year) survival of a school is hard to predict, but I am also wary of choosing a school where the student experience is negatively affected by debt/financial stress. For example, S24 wants great classes and professors in departments which might be targeted for cuts in today’s STEM leaning environment (history, sociology, philosophy, English, classical studies, religious studies, etc.). I think DH has access to Moody’s ratings, so will check those out too.

@Catcherinthetoast Yes, that’s a very helpful explanation—thanks! We’ll check out some of the other schools that get Bs from Forbes.

Thanks also to Juniata fans :+1:. Their museum studies program looks great, and there’s a fun video on YouTube about a Juniata student who worked on the ruby slippers exhibit at Museum of American History in DC. S24 loves that museum (and DC). Juniata’s location is a con for him, as he is not a fan of long car trips. He is tall and restless. When discussing Hobart & William Smith (5.5 hour drive), he said he’d rather travel to Elon as it’s two 45 minute car rides with a flight in the middle, so it’s broken up. But weather was also an issue with Hobart, and I assume Juniata’s weather is much milder.

Conn College visit report coming soon. Spoiler Alert: He loved it.

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Juniata is BBB by S&P with a stable outlook so not strong but investment grade.

Yes when colleges get in the financial morass is when majors, faculty, programs, and support could be strained….could be. As we know there have been some private school failures/mergers and more are expected.

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Here’s my report on the Conn College visit:

We had visited before, but not explored the town, so this time S24 wanted to get a sense for New London. He had also set up two meetings with students in the museum studies program.

We took the train to get there, partly because the forecast was for tons of rain, which makes the traffic around NYC even worse, and partly so S24 could see what the trip would be like. It was so easy, and he was able to study, eat and sleep comfortably on the train. We walked from the New London station to our hotel, and Ubered back and forth from campus.

We took a second campus tour, because I figured why not meet another student? Our guide was a varsity runner majoring in music technology, who told the group that it’s common at Conn for students to be involved in what some people might think of as unrelated things. He said that many of his friends take art and/or music classes although they aren’t majors, and that participating in theater is also popular. He also gave the examples of his friends in MOBROC (Musicians Organized for Band Rights on Campus) who come from all majors, and the soccer team doing a walk for the homeless that weekend. When we toured with my D19, our guide was an architecture major who was in the school’s production of Rocky Horror, and also played volleyball. This appeals to S24 who is not a spiky kid, and wants a broad education in and out of the classroom.

As far as academics, we heard about Conn’s Connections and Pathways programs, which basically seem like ways to make your studies/major more interdisciplinary, or to help you create your own major. They have different centers, like Environment, Community Action, International Studies, and different pathways which involve study away or internships. S24 noticed the this tour guide mentioned two things our first one hadn’t: that the Career Center offers a one credit class for students who want to formally sit down each week and tackle career planning with advisors, and that every student gets four free Lyft rides a month. So, if you have three good friends on your freshman hall, between you, you have 16 rides a month to go to New London for dinner (less than 10 minutes, but not a nice walk), or a movie, or to go to Target or the grocery store. Or, you could go to the train station and then Providence in one hour, Boston in two, and NYC in three.

After the tour, S24 stayed to talk to a museum studies student, which he enjoyed.
He is especially interested in living history, house museums, and historic & historical sites, and he liked that the program is so broad, also including science museums, planetaria, aquaria, auction houses, etc. We knew that there was a track meet going on, so after S24 finished, we walked down to the field house and track. It was a NESCAC championship, so there was a big crowd with lots of friends, families and dogs. We had a great time figuring out and critiquing all the NESCAC mascots, which are unique to say the least! From the track, you have an expansive view of the waterfront and the river, and there was a sailing regatta going on. When we walked down to the docks to watch the sailing, I could tell S24 was itching to get out on the water with them. However, he has been consistent that he does not want to go the recruitment. It was fun to watch and it’s a beautiful spot. Even the workout machines in the gym have a great view of the river!

We had already wandered around in the Arboretum on the east side of campus, but this time we checked out the jogging trails on the west side between the athletic center and the Mamacoke Conservation area. Very nice. By then, it was getting late so we headed into New London and found a cozy Thai place called Noodles and Rice Bistro was perfect. The next day, we had breakfast at a coffee shop with a view of the river, and then walked along the Waterfront Park, which is a half mile boardwalk on the river with piers and historic info. S24 was psyched to find the spot where the Amistad was towed in in 1839. (There’s a replica of the ship at Mystic Seaport.) We also went to the tiny but amazing Customs House Maritime Museum (full of treasures and excellent volunteer docents).

Next, S24 met with another student on campus. I thought maybe it would be a half an hour or so, but they hung out for almost three hours! They really hit it off, and S24 got a great feel for the school. The student is a history major in museum studies who is also involved in the campus radio station and theater tech. He showed S24 his favorite places on campus, and told him about his favorite professors/classes. They talked about the student protest and occupation that resulted in the President stepping down, the dorm that has mold because they turned the air conditioning off during Covid, etc.

When we met to head down to the train station, S24 was extra relaxed, happy, and downright chatty about the school. It’s possible that he would have this good a time at many schools on a repeat visit if he got to talk to students and explore the campus in a leisurely way. But, so far, Conn is the only one he has taken the initiative to go back to, and he says he could definitely see himself there. He has mentioned ED several times, which would hopefully give him a really good shot.

So, it was a big success! A Wheaton visit is his next goal.

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Conn sounds like such an excellent fit for him.

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Yes, I think he would fit right in and thrive there! It’s hard to gauge his chances, though, and he enjoys college visits, so we are going to keep looking.

It would be great to have some schools on his list that are similar to Conn, but less difficult admits. Of the ones we’ve visited, Lafayette was his next favorite, but that’s probably an even higher reach.

Now that he’s spent more time at Conn, Marist is no longer as appealing in comparison. When we visited, it didn’t bother him that there was a lot of emphasis on majors like Communications, Fashion and Criminal Justice. I think he was too busy looking at the views of the Hudson! He did find on their website that they have a minor in Hudson River Valley Regional Studies, which is appealing to a kid who loves the Hudson River School of painting and the FDR era. However, we couldn’t find any classes in the Hudson region in the course catalog. In fact, half of the history classes offered next fall are at study abroad programs, and many of those remaining have TBA for the professor. S24 would also prefer four years of guaranteed housing. From my point of view, Marist has a pretty location, but I wouldn’t love feeling hemmed in by the railroad on one side and a four lane road on the other. Also, I’m not sure about the social vibe for S24 who is not a bar person, but I’m sure he wouldn’t be the only one.

Elon may be off the list. Aside from requiring a flight to get there, S24 is not sure about their plans to continue to expand enrollment.

Are we missing any liberal arts colleges, preferably not too isolated, that would have a vibe similar to Conn College? S24 feels like the vibe is a nice mix of brainy, collaborative, active and artsy. Also, not too intense or Type A.

I think the new list is:

Likely
Drew
Mary Washington
St. Mary’s of Maryland
Roanoke
Washington College

Match
Wheaton (Mass)
Juniata
Hobart & William Smith
Bard?

Reach
Dickinson
Gettysburg
Clark

High Reach
Connecticut College
Franklin & Marshall
Lafayette

Skidmore would be another high reach, but perfect for a student interested in the art of the Hudson River Valley! Its admit rate is lower than Conn’s, but median stats are also lower, so it seems worth a shot. Sarah Lawrence is another that would be an easier admit.

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Thanks! I think we didn’t include Skidmore in an attempt to keep from getting any more reachy, but a trip to Saratoga Springs would be nice😊. The kids who have gone to Sarah Lawrence from our high school are considerably less mainstream than S24, but that would be an easy visit so I’ll mention it to him.

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Also… I fully understand his hesitation re: athletic commitments in college… but DIII recruitment for running and/or sailing could well put him over the top at reachier schools like Conn/Skidmore/Lafayette, and the beauty of DIII is that he’d be under no obligation to continue if he found the sport too burdensome once he got there. It’s something to think about… and sailing at Conn sounds heavenly! Did he talk to any athletes during his visit?

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I have wondered whether we should think about encouraging S24 to talk to coaches. I don’t think it makes sense for cross country and track. According to his times, he could be recruited at Clark, St. Mary’s, Endicott, and Susquehanna. For the rest of the schools on his list, he would be walk on or try out, which I don’t think increases your chance of admission. An issue with running is that it’s all three seasons, so there’s no time off. Although S24 loves it, he really wants to try other sports in college, such as ultimate frisbee and intramural everything :wink:.

College sailing sounds intense. For co-ed (or open) sailing, St. Mary’s is top ten in the country, and Conn and Hobart are top twenty. They travel for regattas most weekends fall and spring. Conn’s travel might be slightly easier due to their central location, and having a great venue for hosting. Kids we know who sail varsity in college also travel to regattas over winter and spring breaks. We are assuming the whole team goes, although we don’t really know. Actually, we are probably assuming a lot. However, he definitely would not want to go through recruitment unless he honestly was planning to give the team his best shot. And so far, he keeps says that he’ll need to prioritize academics, and then he wants to try new activities. Still, it would be worth checking with him to make sure he doesn’t want to consider contacting some coaches/sailors.

Thanks @aquapt for the suggestion to think this through!

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Skidmore is less reachy if the applicant is full pay. Conn, too, I believe?

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