<p>MOWC:</p>
<p>I was taken aback by my first sight of West Philly, having imagined something like the area around MIT (before it became full of hi-tech companies) or New Haven. It is indeed grittier. My S accordingly is quite careful (he mostly bikes or uses public transport).
Unfortunately, the incident at the Bridge theatre is something that is too unpredictable to guard against and really could happen in any cinema.</p>
<p>But the number of youth gang incidents at the McDonald’s and the constant property thefts (out of housing units) are something to be considered. The fact is, the Bridge theater is near some really bad areas of the city- the one in King of Prussia is not. There’s a big difference. You can’t guard against it.</p>
<p>MOWC: S lives further west of the Bridge cinema! But he likes where he lives and feels safe there.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine feeling safe very far west of 40th. I realize students live west, but I can’t think of any reason to feel safe.</p>
<p>I know Philadelphia. I drove a truck all over the city- in bad areas- for a summer job while I was in college. Some areas have improved. Some are worse. It is a tough, gritty city and as much as someone might like it (and, as I have said, there are many things to like), there is simply a lot of crime. </p>
<p>I go to Honduras every year on a mission trip. We love the people with whom we work. We are careful. We are smart. But we do NOT fool ourselves into thinking we are safe.</p>
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<p>Oh, please tell me it’s a better place now (I know absolutely nothing about the safe or dangerous suburbs/neighborhoods of Boston) because D1’s new job is right by MIT, although they are looking to get new office space soon.</p>
<p>I failed to see the humor in Marite’s post,as well. Clearly, we have two mothers with kids living in the same area and only one of them wants to deal with the situation. That’s how I see it.</p>
<p>I don’t think Marite’s post was meant to be a “ha ha” funny post, but its no different than blossoms subsequent post, and no one is ragging on her for her comment. I took these comments as pointing out that “stuff happens”, some possibly more predicatable than others. Heck, my s goes to college in NOLA. He is there knowing the potential risk of hurricanes or floods. Paranoia is unnecessary, but due diligence and reasonable/appropriate caution is important, especially in proportion to the risk. JMO.</p>
<p>Stuff happens indeed. If you are looking for a campus for your kid where being safe is 100% certain you will never find it. But people who live in cities (me and Marite) probably worry less about our kids living in an urban environment than folks who don’t.</p>
<p>College kids, unfortunately, are at risk for lots of things. But since most of you won’t tell your kid not to study abroad because a plane went down over Lockerbie with dozens of college kids on board, it seems reasonable to point out that violence on college campuses is not restricted to places like Penn and Drexel (e.g. Virginia Tech).</p>
<p>The fact that most women who die violently do so at the hands of a family member or domestic partner (or an ex-husband, ex-boyfriend) doesn’t mean that you all tell your teenage daughters not to date. It probably means that you teach them how to be aware of a man with an anger management problem, to stay away from guys who are addicts and own guns, or any of the other obvious markers of a “guy with issues.” Does this make your daughter 100% safe? Of course not.</p>
<p>So if you are uncomfortable with your kid living on an urban college campus, feel free to choose a rural one. I never worried about my kids getting into a car with someone who was drunk when they were in college (urban campuses, their friends didn’t own cars since nobody could afford to park one in the cities they lived in.) They took public transportation or the college’s own van/bus system after a night out. On a rural campus I would worry about the driving-- but that’s me. YMMV.</p>
<p>Clearly, we have three mothers with kids living in the same area and two of them aren’t into drama. In his third year at Penn, my son has yet to even see these roving youth gangs. Yes, bad things happen in Philly. He locks his door, he has a heavy duty lock for his bike, he knows what areas to avoid. If your child doesn’t follow safety advice then don’t send them to Penn. If they can use their steet smarts, they’ll be fine.</p>
<p>I don’t think the value of this thread is for those who already have kids at Penn. In that case (MOWC excluded), the defensive shields will come up. I think it helps those who are starting to venture out and visit different campuses (or make decisions on what campuses to visit). </p>
<p>For those of you interested in looking up crime stats for different campuses…here’s a good link. I KNOW that reporting varies by school, so this is just a start.
Reading the local news helps too.
[Campus</a> Security Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website](<a href=“Campus Safety and Security”>Campus Safety and Security)</p>
<p>Talking to locals can also give a picture. Both MOWC and I have worked in the Penn area. Granted, it was many years ago for me, but I have a good friend who has lived in that area for years. </p>
<p>I do agree that ALL students need to be careful and street-smart, no matter what campus they’re attending. But some students might not be suited to a gritty urban environment (for example “macho men” types who think they can take on anything, or timid students from rural areas who are fearful of making an adjustment to an urban environment). Penn is a gritty urban environment. No doubt about it. Spend some time at the emergency room at HUP and you’ll get a flavor of the daily activity. It’s not pretty. It is what it is. If you’re kid can handle that, fine. But let’s not compare it to a places like Dartmouth or Oberlin. You DON"T have the SAME risks on every campus. That’s just not true…although I think it’s a helpful to believe that for some. </p>
<p>Penn has a beautiful campus. It’s a terrific school. I would send my son there. I know the environment. But for outsiders, particularly those from non-urban environments, it can be easy to stroll down leafy Locust Walk and pretend it’s a bubble. If this thread gets some parents and students to check some stats and venture out a bit, that’s a good thing. And yes, they should do that for ALL schools.</p>
<p>Clearly, my post did not tickle everyone’s funny bone. In fact, it was not even meant to be humorous. It was meant to sum up various posters arguments for or against different college environments.
Some warned against the dangers of urban life; others countered with arguments against rural settings where drunkenness and drunk driving may be a greater concern.
We all want to guard our kids and ourselves against danger, but it is not possible to guard against every possible danger, whether it is in the street, in a crowded cinema, a bank, a store, or even within one’s own house or dorm room.
The conclusion to be drawn from MoWC’s post is not to avoid Penn or UofC or some other urban college entirely but to be alert. The same goes for rural or suburban colleges.</p>
<p>teriwtt: If you’ll send me a PM with a more precise location, I could tell you more. MIT still is not very residential and that has an effect on the general atmosphere. The new hi-tech buildings have displaced crummy housing blocks, and there are some luxury apartment buildings but I feel that some areas are very quiet after hours, unlike the area nearer Harvard Square.</p>
<p>Interesting post toneranger but I disagree. I think that safety concerns are more important to those who have a child on campus than those who are considering or lived there years ago.</p>
<p>U student shot in outbreak of crime incidents
One of three crime incidents overnight on or near the University of Minnesota’s Twin Cities campus has left one student wounded and police on the hunt for two suspects.</p>
<p>[U</a> student shot in outbreak of crime incidents | StarTribune.com](<a href=“http://www.startribune.com/local/82670292.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUUUac8HEaDiaMDCinchO7DU]U”>http://www.startribune.com/local/82670292.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUUUac8HEaDiaMDCinchO7DU)</p>
<p>collegekids…you’re right, this thread is important to those with kids on campus… my mistake. If it gets some parents to remind kids about safety, that’s a good thing. I just don’t think many current parents are in the dark about what’s going on - and think it’s important to prevent any “surprises” for prospective parents and students. That goes for ALL campuses.
I tend to be a bit cynical…I believe officials at Penn are going to present the campus in the best light…perhaps downplay the crime to prospective parents and students. Just like some other schools might downplay drinking or other issues. We all need to have our eyes wide open…</p>
<p>toneranger is absolutely right that no one should stroll down Locust Walk at Penn and think that they are in some kind of bubble. But I get thoroughly tired of hearing about how “gritty” and dangerous Penn is from a bunch of people who live in suburbs. Please, please, send your children elsewhere so that we don’t have to listen to you whine about this. The only problem you will face is that urban colleges seem to be getting more popular, precisely because they ARE urban, at the relative expense of all those picturesque, rural, hyper-safe (at least from “street crime”) colleges.</p>
<p>My kids NEVER went to school in a safe area. From kindergarten through today, they have spent the better part of each day in environments that were ACTUALLY gritty (unlike Penn) (well, the University of Chicago is no grittier than Penn – but their K-12 schools sure were). In roughly 35 kid-years, the worst thing that has happened to anyone is having a wallet stolen (and dropped, minus credit card and $15, one block away). Meanwhile, around the time our children started school our best friends moved to an exurban environment with “great” schools and don’t-lock-your-door crime rates. Their kids, now in their 20s, are an absolute mess, and are not remotely safe. I’m sure there are non-mess kids in their town, and this is anecdotal. But the point is that even in comparatively rough areas (which aren’t really rough areas at all) the relatively large but absolutely small risk of “street crime” just isn’t the most, the second-most, or even the tenth-most important thing for a caring parent to be worrying about.</p>
<p>“But I get thoroughly tired of hearing about how “gritty” and dangerous Penn is from a bunch of people who live in suburbs.”</p>
<p>Oh my, is that me?? Did I say I worked at Penn for 10 years? Does that not count? BTW, I made it through just fine, no crimes or problems to report. </p>
<p>JHS, your kids are clearly street smart. That’s a good thing. And yeah, there are clueless kids (and parents) in the suburbs and rural areas. And bad ones too. But now, you’re participating in the very thing you’re railing about here. Anecdotal evidence and stereotypes mean nothing. </p>
<p>Check the stats. Visit the extended area. Go to the local emergency room and talk to the nurses (you might hear about high rate of alcohol poisoning on some leafy rural campuses for example). Penn has its own unique issues as well as a host of issues shared with many campuses. Eyes wide open…</p>
<p>Is Penn less safe than JHU? A couple of years ago I looked up the campus crime stats, and JHU reported no crimes against persons on their Homewood campus, and a very low rate surrounding the campus. I have to wonder if these stats are manipulated, because aren’t they also supposed to report crime in surrounding streets too?</p>
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I am not poking fun at that data … but I do not think the objective data analysis is as helpful as it might seem. The biggest reason is the crime rate in any neighborhood in a city can vary a TON (better or worse) than the overall crime rate for the city. My oldest wanted to go to an urban school and for me the campus visits were HUGE trying to get a handle on how safe she would be at the schools. </p>
<p>PS - On our visits we went to all the top urban schools in the northeast and they all were in neighborhoods that I was OK with my daughter attending college … and many had reps of being in terrible neighborhoods … and I didn’t find that to be the case at all … I think, for some, part of the issue is being uncomfortable with any large urban environment.</p>
<p>MomPhd:</p>
<p>I don’t know how the JHU data were collected; it seems that each college does things differently and lists are also established differently. Emerson ranks #1 most unsafe campus. Emerson claims that its own campus is very safe; but it is ranked #1 by PR because it sits across Boston Commons where a lot of drug traffic happens. To me, this would be a factor worth considering.
Harvard makes the list, too, but apparently, because it is more diligent than most in reporting rapes (how does one know?) For different reasons, a number of MA colleges make the list, including Tufts.</p>