I would be very thorough if considering Providence College as suggested. Brown and Providence College have very few similarities. Even the surrounding communities adjacent to the city of Providence they occupy are very different.
Of likely greatest significance given your daughters profile is that PC is not traditionally as welcoming of LGBQ students as many other schools (and in particular Brown see below).
It is a very solid school that unabashedly takes pride in its religious roots. The school does have a core curriculum that includes a variety of theology and religious subject matter…
Fordham is much more LGBQ accepting but does maintain many religious based traditions and given the Gabelli School and proximity to Wall Street has a bit of a finance and pre professional feel that doesn’t work for many “open curriculum” types.
Fordham also has a well regarded program in Media which attracts a lot of performing arts kids who want a liberal arts focus, not a conservatory experience…and the usual strengths in humanities like most Jesuit colleges. I don’t think the vibe is particularly pre-rofessional…
Perhaps that is the Case at Fordham more broadly. I based my comments on having sat through my nephews commencement (graduate degree) last year from Gabelli…
And the dozen or so kids I know that have graduated as undergraduates to roles in banking or accounting.
In fairness I am not as familiar with the broader school environment.
The Association for Moving Image Archivists mentions a few universities as well as universities with student chapters, which might be of interest to your D.
There are several Jesuit schools on this list. The Jesuit institutions I’m familiar with tend to be very keen on social justice issues, and our local Jesuit university is very open and accepting towards the LGBTQ community. These are not schools with no distribution requirements, but they tend to be able to be fulfilled in a number of ways.
This list is focusing mostly on schools where your daughter would stand a good to excellent chance of admittance. And yes, several of these schools have been mentioned upthread, too.
Connecticut
U. of Hartford
Maryland
Goucher
Loyola Maryland
Both Baltimore schools are part of a consortium that allows classes to be taken at Johns Hopkins and at MICA (Maryland Institute College of Art)
Massachusetts
Brandeis (just outside of Boston)
Clark
College of the Holy Cross
Lesley
New York
Fordham
NYU (usually a reach for all, but for your D’s interests…)
My son sounds quite similar in personality and also liked Brown. His list includes Boston University- not a safety but a much easier admit than Brown, Vassar, and CU Boulder and UWash Seattle (also not a safety OOS but not Brown either).
Oh no - she isn’t considering Providence College, at all, actually! I only mentioned “Providence” in reference to the city-size that she is hoping for - a city that is “at least as big as Providence” would be ideal. I think maybe I was a little unclear, there! I’m sorry!
If she hates the cafeteria at Fordham, and is at their Lincoln Center location, she can avoid the meal plan completely by choosing McMahon dorm, which is apartment style. It is mainly upperclassman, but houses some freshman too. McMahon has a full kitchen in each apartment, doesn’t require buying a meal plan, and there are plenty of restaurants/cafes/delis around
Or if in the Bronx, Arthur Avenue is some of the best Italian food NYC has to offer. Lots of upper class man live off campus in the area and take advantage of the markets.
If she won’t compromise on the city thing, her options are limited, especially on safeties.
Fordham does not seem a fit at all for this student. BU, Northeastern, but both are reaches these days. Temple and U Pitt are probably safeties. The colleges integrated in cities that are safeties are few. I think as a safety and the vibe she wants, she definitely needs to consider Clark, but she must show interest.
Your daughter needs to make a list of absolute nonnegotiables and compromises. She may get into Brown, but the odds, as we know, are against her. If she is looking for a replica of Brown that’s a safety, it doesn’t exist. If being in the city is nonnegotiable, something else has to go, like the open curriculum she wants, or the campus vibe that she feels most comfortable in. I’d argue that the physical location of the college is less important than the other two factors.
We who have been here on CC for a while have seen many posts from people seeking what Brown is: a mid sized college in a city with a socially aware and liberal vibe. But the reality is that what really matters is the kids they go to school with and the academics. If she is willing to consider letting go of the city component, she will have better options.
I’m not as pessimistic as Linda. Long time Brown interviewer here…the Open Curriculum is the easiest element to replicate except at places like MIT with a huge set of requirements. There is a ton of internal research at Brown showing that a majority of students end up with a pretty traditional set of courses…why? Because even if you are passionate about history or linguistics and only want courses in those departments, your roommate is going to tell you about an inspirational econ professor, or a geology class which is amazing, or the poli sci class which is life altering.
So…even without distribution requirements, students end up distributing themselves!!
Clark and Fordham seem like solid options. UVM is in a fun city with plenty to do. This kid doesn’t need 5 safety schools…two are fine if she puts effort into the applications.
And why the negative vibe on Fordham? You attend an MBA graduation and you conclude that the entire university is pre-professional??? Gabelli IS focused on accounting and finance, but plenty of kids spend four years at Fordham without ever seeing a discounted cash flow analysis!!
My D23 has different academic interests but similar preferences in terms of location and vibe. In her search, while she hasn’t found a safety that quite fits everything on the list, she’s found places easier to get into where she feels she can be happy. One that might be worth taking a look at depending on what your D is willing to deprioritize -
Macalester (though not in the northeast and not as many students as at Brown; also more of a target than a safety) - this is one my D will apply to EA and is one of the target schools she’s most excited about. Having to write their Why Mac essay which is worded to focus the applicant on learning about the Twin Cities and how they might use them really helped her see herself there and appreciate what Mac has to offer.
Also, this isn’t a safety, but would your D consider Barnard? (women’s college but relationship with Columbia means students take classes and join clubs that are coed)
I don’t think this school will fit your D, but it might work for someone else in the future with a similar list of preferences who is willing to give more on the city and size factors - Wheaton (MA). My S21 is there. It has an open curriculum (designed a few years ago under the guidance of a provost who, herself, attended Brown). It has the liberal activist vibe, no Greek life, no football. Students can actually take some classes at Brown (limited) and can get to Providence via the commuter rail (I’ve done it - it’s just a few stops on the train and very easy). The train can also get students to Boston (a longer ride). But it is most definitely in a quiet town without the city feel, and the student body is a bit under 2000.
Based on your description, I also agree with the suggestion of Clark. We visited with my S21 who liked it but ultimately preferred Wheaton’s campus and curriculum.
I expressed an opinion based on both my first hand experience interviewing and hiring kids from the school, having a family member who attended, and living in a near by community that sends a lot of kids there. These factors led me to the predisposition towards finance impression that I caveated with may not apply to the broader school.
I am actually a big fan of Fordham and have suggested it in several other threads.
Having had a kid that went to Brown I respect and admire both student populations but view them as very different in many ways.
I am sure you are aware but for those new to Fordham they do have a fairly extensive core curriculum that includes several religious themes.
“The Fordham common core curriculum includes:
Two courses of English composition and literature
Two courses of philosophy, two of theology, and two of the natural sciences
One introductory course each in history and the social sciences
Two additional courses in literature, history, or the social sciences, followed by a capstone course
One course each in mathematics and the fine arts
Foreign language up to an advanced level except for students in the sciences
Courses on American pluralism and global studies
Four Eloquentia Perfecta seminars, including a capstone Senior Seminar”
While I agree Brown students tend to gravitate towards a traditional set of courses the aforementioned Fordham core seems much more prescriptive and limiting given how much “space” it absorbs.
The OP said they don’t mind grit. I know a few kids who attended Temple and had great experiences. I guess like most places, students should be aware of their surroundings.
There are a lot of good suggestions here. Has the OP said what schools are definitely on the list? I know Yale and RISD were mentioned, but not sure if the student is applying there.
I agree that two safeties is probably good. I personally think a safety (for a high performing student) should have an acceptance rate above the 50+% range. Fordham just barely falls into that range (so it’s almost-safe?) and Temple and Clark are definitely in that range. Other safeties mentioned on this thread would be Goucher, Pitt, UVM, VCU. UVM, lovely as it is, has a great town, but it’s definitely not a city.
Pace was mentioned, but it’s pretty much a commuter school. Actually, Sarah Lawrence might be a good option for an almost-safety, if the student shows interest and nails the supplemental essays. Then there are all the CUNY’s, if she wants to consider them. Obviously easy access to the city.
I agree with the idea of Macalester. Social justice. LGBT. Good pre-med classes if she goes that direction. Strong arts, plus you can take up to 1 class per semester at MCAD (Minneapolis college of art and design) which makes the arts ever stronger. Nice urban location in a fun city known for both medical research and the arts. Easy direct flights. I know a student who really thought she wanted to be in the Northeast, but ended up extremely happy at Mac. Consortium with other local schools (Hamline, Augsburg, St Kates, St. Thomas, MCAD) make the school feel bigger. Lots of study abroad too.
I agree that Macalester is worth looking at, given her interests. Have you run the net price calculators for Brown and Fordham? And are they affordable?
Carnegie Mellon isn’t exactly a safety, but acceptance rates are manageable outside of computer science if she is a top student.
NYU is huge, but it checks the boxes and it is in the capital of the world.
I thought the campus was nice and the school has a good academic reputation, but I know several kids that had negative experiences at Fordham.
Fairfield University is another school to look at if she is looking for something smaller. Small school, but well respected and progressive, and Fairfield is a large suburb that is a 60 minute train ride from Midtown Manhattan. Being close to NYC may be a good idea if she wants to get internships in the art field.
Amherst is a beautiful college town, although definitely not a city. There are several colleges right in and around it.
It sounds like your daughter and my D22 could be good friends. D22 has ADHD and anxiety disorder with panic attacks (and probably autism to some degree, just haven’t pursued the testing). She LOVED Brown and was sad not to be admitted. I know it’s not in the Northeast and definitely not a safety, but any chance you would consider Rice as an alternative reach? D22 is thriving there - they are very good about accommodating neuro-divergent students, of which there are many. D22 was already overwhelmed and having panic attacks from all the unplanned “surprise” activities during orientation (a surprise fireworks show!?!?!?) - her student advisor took the time to identify the upcoming “surprise” events and even make a schedule just for her with only the most important events on it. It’s very LGBTQ-friendly (one of D22’s friends there is non-binary and it isn’t an issue at all), and obviously Houston is a huge city, though the campus does feel more suburban than urban if that’s an issue. The curriculum requirements are very loose - just need some combination of 12 hours each in natural science, social science and humanities - so in practice it’s close to an open curriculum, and changing majors is easy and commonplace. Admission is tough but not quite as tough as Brown - D22 didn’t even make the Brown waitlist but was admitted RD at Rice - and ED provides a slight boost. Apologies for going a little far afield from your original request, just thought I would share.
