<p>WindCloudUltra - thanks, that makes a lot of sense. So basically I have just find the professors I like - that's easy enough.</p>
<p>In terms of small LACs versus the HYPS, will going to a smaller school without the graduate program give composition students the better experience?</p>
<p>Here's the difference:</p>
<p>You're generally NOT going to find any composers of note at the music departments at LACs. The music faculty at say the top LACs will have maybe something like 10 people total. There maybe 2 or 3 composers, a few musicologists and some theorists. Once in a while, you could throw a conductor in there. The composers are generally not the most well known and frankly, the music they write probably isn't that interesting. (I'm also over generalizing here so bear with me.)</p>
<p>The Ivy music departments, save one or two schools are packed with famous composers on the faculty. They also have a better time inviting guest composers because they have greater funds and because guest composers want to work with graduate composers for the most part. They have little incentive to want to visit small LACs- even more prominent ones such as Williams and Amherst. (Oberlin is an exception because it houses a truly remarkable composition program)</p>
<p>Now, here's the catch: undergrads usually need to fight for access to these 'superstar' faculty at the Ivies- and you better be good. They don't want to waste their time on beginners. In this case, you might find the LAC faculty to be more helpful. </p>
<p>Basically, if you really want some 'hardcore' composing and you want to meet some of the most interesting composers working today, go either to a conservatory or an Ivy. I guarantee that you won't get that kind of exposure at a smaller LAC no matter how prominent it is. Look at Williams- the only truly well-known composer to come of there is Stephen Sondheim- and he isn't exactly a classical composer.</p>
<p>So at HYPS- the superstar, prize-winning faculty is there, but as an undergrad, you've gotta fight for it. Yale is a little different- the famous composers are at the Yale School of Music which is almost completely off limits to undergrad composers. Performers have been known to take lessons there but not composers. Nonetheless, I believe that it has a great music scene. And then again, famous composers DOES NOT = good teaching. </p>
<p>LACs- lack of famous faculty, music by these people are likely to be more conservative and less interesting. (again...a generalization) However, they may be great teachers. Then again, they could suck at both too.</p>
<p>So it's all about tradeoffs (darn, I was hoping choosing a college would be easy!). I guess I'll find out how good I am when I enter the nat'l music competition this fall. </p>
<p>You say they won't deal with beginners (that makes perfect sense) - is it possible though to rise from that beginner position to gain that access? The problem is, there is NO ONE I know from MN that composes (no students at least), so I can't compare my work. The program at CIM was the only opportunity for me to do that, and when I did so, there were really only 3 kids that actually had work sizeable to mine (as in there was good melodic development - drama - and wasn't simply an excersize in "hmm, let's see what happens when I voice out these chord changes with instruments." </p>
<p>Your and BassDad's general consensus seem to be that the better or more well known professors are at the Ivies (I know, I read good). If I end up not being good enough - the department simply can't just say, "No, I won't let you enroll in these classes" - right? And if that indeed happens, I'll be 'stuck' taking classes from professors at the LAC level. - Is my hypothetical scenario more or less correct?</p>
<p>One thing...there is no official audition or composition portfolio review to major in music at a liberal arts schools- which includes all your Ivies and smaller LACs on the undergraduate level. Rather, as long as you get permission from the instructor, you should be able to take composition classes.</p>
<p>I'm just rereading BassDad's comments from before:
[quote]
I had more in mind identifying the overall structure of the work, picking out subjects, identifying exposition, development and recapitulation sections as applicable, commenting on the relationships between the tonalities of one section and the next, and that sort of thing. If the work is more polyphonic in nature, then it could mean identifying the style of counterpoint being used, finding instances of inversion, augmentation, diminution, stretto, and so forth...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You should pretty much be able to learn all this stuff from a good first year standard classical theory course or AP theory....give and take a few topics esp in counterpoint.</p>
<p>Okay, so the goal is just to get into an ivy - or a school with a big rep that can attract the top proffesors and work as hard as possible to get their attention?</p>
<p>In your situation, I would still want to get to know the composition teachers at each of the schools you are considering. Even if you do not know which of them you like at present, you may well find that there are some whose works do nothing for you at all. Also make sure to check out the curriculum. Some places may not give you access to the top composition faculty until you have taken a bunch of prerequisites in your first year or two. I sense that you want to get cracking on composition from day 1.</p>
<p>Although WindCloudUltra points out that Princeton's grad program is stronger than their undergrad, Paul Lansky, Steven Mackey and Barbara White have put together an interesting set of courses that integrate composition into the undergrad music theory sequence. While not a Princeton grad myself, I have occasionally performed with some of their ensembles and have always been favorably impressed by their faculty and students. I really think it is worth a look in your case.</p>
<p>BassDad and WindCloudUltra - thank you SO MUCH for all the advice you have given me. This new understanding makes my search and application process a lot easier. I really appreciate that you take the time out of your busy lives to help a clueless collegiate claimant in this subject. </p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I was wondering was it hard for you to get into college with your music composition skill?</p>
<p>Wow - these is one old thread! I don’t think I’ve ever seen it at all. Stephwong - I think you should start a new thread with your question - or, at least elaborate on what the question is. If you’re addressing the OP it looks like he ended up at a liberal arts college, after all - but one known for its composition department - Swarthmore.</p>
<p>And I think WindCloudUltra will be amused to read some of his old posts…not sure he would still agree with everything he said five years ago. Maybe he’ll weigh in with the benefit of hindsight.</p>