I am deciding between UCLA and Santa Clara University. I will be Biology major with plans on going to Medical School. I am not sure which would help me more to get into medical school. I feel it would be dumb to give up UCLA for Santa Clara.
No doubt about it go to UCLA
If you are just looking at the caliber of education, UCLA is the clear choice. However, some other things that are worthwhile to consider are the affordability of both schools for your family, other prospective majors (just in case you change your mind from biology), and overall fit. If having a lot of school spirit and a “brand name” college is also important to you, then UCLA all the way.
@Sand12 . . .
Here’s the [url= https://www.scu.edu/pre-health/admission-statistics/]link[/url] to a very well done study of SCU’s placement into MD and OD programs.
Here’s a quote from the site:
Click on the link to see where 328 students from 2002-2018 matriculated, 19.2 students/year; I don’t know if this is all inclusive of all who were accepted. The aamc.org website states that 73 SCU grads applied to med school in the 2018-19 cycle, and this would indeed be the fully unfiltered number. The site uses 40% as the rate of acceptance for all applicants, which figures to 29 acceptances during that time.
Additionally, both SCU and UCLA are on the quarter (trimester) system, which will allow you to have a fallback minor or even attach another major in case the coursework in bio isn’t going to allow you to maintain ≥ 3.5 gpa, other than switching out of the major hopefully early on.
This is a bit off-topic, but here’s a [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CLhqjOzoyE]link[/url] to a gentleman by the name of Dr. Michael Burry (edited name) who gave the keynote speech at UCLA Economics Graduation in 2012, who was an econ graduate who attended medical school to show that UCLA and SCU would be flexible enough for an aspirant as yourself to major in something besides the life sciences, but taking the med-school core courses (premed) concurrently. His speech is about finding himself and his calling, which was in hedge funds, even armed with a Vanderbilt medical degree. It’s about 21 minutes, so if it’s too much, then feel free to pass.
SCU would also be excellent, so don’t feel that UCLA would be the only road to med school for you. All the Best…
Thank you so much and I will listen to link above
Pre-med at UCLA is cutthroat. And it can be tougher getting classes than at SCU.
Persons on this message board like to use the words competitive and collaborative against each other, relative to how student bodies are oriented at a university, in this case UCLA. Some will say that the University has students who like to assemble in study groups for life-science courses – they are collaborative; others say its students in the premed track are “cutthroat,” and extremely competitive.
So which is it? I don’t think the word cutthroat would have ever been fair to characterize the premeds at UCLA. The word competitive I think is much more fair to utilize. Therefore, I think it can be both, and I don’t think that these traits are mutually exclusive with respect to an individual or persons.
The students who are involved in greek orgs – and greeks at UCLA are extremely studious and surprisingly many will become doctors-- will have fraternal and sorority notes on professors and copies of their tests for future reference, and they’ll take classes and study together. Additionally, study groups will be big for those who primarily reside on the Hill, which is where most of the residences are at UCLA as the study rooms there will be perpetually booked. But these students who are obviously collaborative are also extremely competitive, which in this case means that they are extremely studious.
I’m sure that there are some who would rather go it alone and hog all whatever scholastic glory comes their way, but it appears that these are fewer and farther between. The collaborative team capstones are reserved more for the E majors; the capstones in the life sciences are more individual senior projects with professors, but I don’t think that this bespeaks of one going his or her own way in bio-related sciences by orientation of study.
And getting classes at UCLA won’t be a problem, but they will certainly not be a problem at SCU, so I guess what you’re saying is true, but worded negatively.
“cutthroat” is the very word used by my niece who went to UCLA as a premed. She graduated phi beta kappa and manga cum laude so maybe that was just her tribe… but she thought the competition was pretty intense.
And she had difficulty getting classes. Not unheard of at UCLA.
BTW, she’s now in her first year of residency at Children’s Hospital of Los Angeles, associated with USC. And she went to a very well regarded med school.
So this is a young woman who’s pretty used to intense, competitive environments. She counts UCLA undergrad as one of them.
We all know what cutthroat means and can cite a few synonyms, but here is a more complete list from thesaurus.com:
ferocious
vicious
savage
barbarous
bloodthirsty
cruel
dog-eat-dog
hard as nails
merciless
pitiless
relentless
unprincipled
And not only this, but, “[T]his is a young woman who’s pretty used to intense, competitive environments. She counts UCLA undergrad as one of them.” Pretty much the whole school, not just the premeds…
UCLA students, generally, exhibit one of the highest happiness indexes in the country; it’s hard to picture its students by the list above. But then “maybe it was her tribe,” – yeah, I guess so.
Wrt classes, the admin has made a concerted effort to ensure that students get their classes, so they can graduate timely. Chancellor Block in graduation ceremonies references getting students out because those who linger – undoubtedly E majors, etc. – take others’ spots.
The OP’s question is more difficult than its surface appears (UCLA= much more prestigious, so go to UCLA!). For pre-med, Santa Clara might be much more useful for the OP. Pre-med is brutal, but if the classes at Santa Clara will allow the OP to have more guided help from caring professors, enjoy a less competitive environment, and avoid intentional weeding-out classes, then this might provide the OP with a stronger chance at medical school.
Weeding-our courses are very real, especially at an elite school like UCLA, where hundreds (maybe a thousand?) undergrads arrive with plans to go to med school. If this is not the case (or not so much the case) at Santa Clara, a Jesuit school of 5,500 undergrads, maybe SC is the smarter play.
But as I always say, the ground is littered with the bones of once-hopeful pre-meds. Back in the day, one friend of mine switched to law school. Another switched to dental school. Thus, the OP should think about which school will help her/him in the long run in case med school is not an option. The OP should also think about which school, in general, will make her/him happier. In CA, both schools are well-known, so it’s not as crazy as some would think to not go to UCLA, although, yes, UCLA is a highly, highly selective (did I say “highly”?) university.
This.
Pre-meds are a dime a dozen among entering frosh. The real question for the OP to address at this point is not what college for premed, but why an M.D? When a lot of HS kids think of a career in medicine it becomes “I’m pre-med!” and they happily embark on a track that will take 11+ years of school/training plus enormous debt. Stats show that few end up ever applying to med school, so trying to predicate their college choice on premed was not a great way to go.
Maybe medicine is a great fit for the OP but doctors are far from the only ones in the health field that help people. Physical therapists, radiology techs, nurses, speech pathologists, physician assistants, nurse practitioners, to name but just a few. as you can see on http://explorehealthcareers.org Unless the OP has carefully considered the alternatives and has spent time actually working in a health care setting (which is an unwritten requirement to get into med school, BTW) its better to think of her/him as interested in exploring a career as a doctor rather than someone who has already made the decision.
@mikemac . . . This is why the calling to be an MD has to be one in which the aspirant asks him or herself, “Would I be happy doing anything else?”
UCLA has a good number of first-generation college students who are driven to be MDs, some undoubtedly by seeing a loved one who needs constant medical care. If this is the case, with enablement from the University, they should continue for at least for a while to gain admission to med school including taking their degrees in whatever major along with having accomplished the premed core. There does need to be a fallback.
Here’s a profile from USC Keck Medical school with the range of ages of its frosh class of 2018 along with its [link](https://keck.usc.edu/education/md-program/admissions/):
Average Age at Admission: 24
Age 21 or less: 13 (7%)
Age 22: 44 (24%)
Age 23: 53 (28%)
Age 24-25: 56 (30%)
Age 26-29: 16 (9%)
Age 30 and over: 4 (<2%)
If some of these students gave up when they were probably told by everyone to do so – 20% are ≥ age 26 – then they wouldn’t have seen the great day when they were accepted to Keck.
Additionally, the entry to PA, nursing and some of the other health-related programs you mention is becoming increasingly harder in which to gain entry, probably because of the overrun of those aspiring to become MDs.
I wouldn’t begrudge anyone who feels he or she needs to be a doctor. I know you’re just presenting a reality-check, but I think these students know what they’re up against including the 11 years of education inclusive of med school for some specialities.
On another thread, you were choosing among Pomona, Cal and UCLA…what happened to the first two?
And more importantly since you applied to a LAC, is that size school your interest? (If the price is the same, for premed I’d pick grade-inflated Pomona as the easy choice over SCU, Cal or UCLA.)
In my post #11, Paragraph 4, 11% are ≥ age 26, LOL.
@katliamom - That’s the same wording I’ve heard my Bruin kids use (and to the other poster - they don’t mean it negatively! It is what it is and they accept it). Absolutely love the university, but UCLA’s South Campus doesn’t exactly have a warm and fuzzy vibe. It is seriously intense, and with the lack of sleep for many students due to the quarter system and course demands, it can get even more stressful as the weeks go by.
UCLA has many happy students, but their counseling services are also incredibly overwhelmed with the demands on their resources. The wait times for appointments can be up to a month or more. So much so that a private counseling company has recently opened in Westwood to try to help with the huge student demand for long-term care.
To the original poster - one of my kids chose UCLA over SCU. Both are quality schools. The only reason she chose one over the other was because she had to maintain a 3.5 GPA to keep her scholarship at SCU and only had to have a 3.0 at UCLA to keep both her scholarships. You need to pick (outside of finances) the one that is the best overall fit for you. For this particular kid of mine, she’s learned that she is a big city/large public university kid, so UCLA was ultimately a much better choice for her.
I’ll leave others to interpret this, but SCU and UCLA have virtually the same med school acceptance rate, applicant stats, and matriculant stats. So I guess this is just a vote for you to go to whichever of the two very different environments you believe you will thrive!
@otisp . . .
You stated:
I agree that OP should attend whatever school at which he/she feels most comfortable, but you’re mistaken if you believe that the stats of matriculants between the two are similar. You should receive a pass, though, because I’m guessing that you’re not from CA and don’t know much about either university.
With respect to med-school placement, UCLA had close to 1,000 applicants to med school in 2018-19 – thank you. . . but since it is a public university with at most 30% non-CA residents, this restricts the med-school choices of its students (as opposed to, say, Pomona which draws students from all over the country 
). CA’s SOMs are clearly the most competitive state to gain entry by far, even if it has the most seats of any state.
This is why the excellent info you gave us in another thread about UCLA and Cal conversely really reflects how well they’ve both done in placing students into SOMs because they and all the rest of the UCs are driving the competition for seats within the state. They’re both to be lauded for putting forth prospective MDs, but at the same time they’re both being cursed as being part of the problem.
With respect to the stats reference, I went through the exercise of trying to standardize UCLA’s stats to private colleges’ which manifests superscoring in the common app. Of course, it wouldn’t matter if Harvard and some of the other truly elites would superscore or not, because Harvard particularly has the most naturally intelligent students on the planet, so they don’t have to scramble to take, retake and retake.
Anyway, my exercise for your consumption, re, UCLA stats which should be pretty close to the actuals (some of the stats are from CDS and the UCLA Admissions site by year)….
Format: uwgpa/fully wgpa/25th Percentile SAT/75th/50th
UCLA Median Stats, 2017-18, Unsuperscored: 3.91/4.39/1,240/1,490/1,370
UCLA Median Stats, 2018-19, Unsuperscored: 3.95/4.42/1,280/1,510/1,390
*Note: UCLA reports 132%, the sum of the two college board tests which enrolled freshmen reported, which implies that the scores at the 25th and 75th percentiles are understated. Additionally, the University does not superscore, which drives the two percentiles down by an average of 40 points on the SAT.
UCLA Median Stats, 2017-18, Superscored: 3.91/4.39/1,290/1,510/1,400
UCLA Median Stats, 2018-19, Superscored: 3.95/4.42/1,330/1,530/1,430
Format: uwgpa/fully wgpa/SAT
UCLA Mean Stats, 2017-18, Unsuperscored: 3.87/4.35/1,340
UCLA Mean Stats, 2018-19, Unsuperscored: 3.89/4.39/1,370
UCLA Mean Stats, 2017-18, Superscored: 3.87/4.35/1,380
UCLA Mean Stats, 2018-19, Superscored: 3.89/4.39/1,410
SCU is a tough university to gain entry also, but not as tough as UCLA. All Californians know this.
My apologies for not being clearer! I wasn’t referring to undergraduate admissions stats. Since OP expressed an interest in pre-med, my post referred to the similarity between the outcomes of SCU & UCLA students who ended up applying/matriculating to med schools (so college GPAs and MCAT scores). And, like I said, there are all sorts of ways to interpret that data.
FWIW (probably not much!), during my 30+ years working in post-secondary education (inc. admin/admissions/transfer articulation agreements - even teaching), I somehow made it to 40+ private and public colleges in CA (actually my favorite part of the job). Admittedly, it’s been about 7-8 years since I last visited SCU, but (and I’m hoping for extra points here) after I retired just a couple of years ago a former colleague got me seats in the student section for a UCLA basketball game!
@otisp . . .
Sorry for my misinterpretation of your quote in bold. I did think that that (that, that that) was perhaps what you meant, but since OP was seeking advice for undergrad, I thought you were alluding to both universities having similar qualifications for undergrad entry, and this reflected in their having similar acceptance rates to med school, even if the order was reversed. Your statement is attached though, so it does flow better with how you just re-presented it or clarified it.
A private university (Pomona, SCU or Stanford) does have a natural advantage in that its student body will have a greater chance to be accepted to public SOMs in their native states, and some within its students will have the funding to attend without regard to cost at private SOMs. A lot of UCLA grads hope for a UC SOM admission, but because of the competition, most will be attending out of state. In other words, their rate ~ 50% is good, even when compared to Pomona’s ~ 80% because of the previously mentioned inherent advantages of privates, along with the shear number of UCLA applicants.
And It should be a brand new day for the UCLA basketball team: they’ll be hard-nosed and defensively minded. It should be fun.
Edit: I might provide support for my estimations of UCLA’s stats. Some of us are on a crusade for the colleges to provide uniform CDS stats which will benefit the applicant; I’d like to see Pomona present unweighted gpa information instead of just ignoring it.