<p>Zoosermom: I havent read this entire thread, but I did read your OP, and the vomit part struck a chord. When faced with an extremely stressful situation, does your daughter actually become so overwhelmed by nausea that she believes shes going to throw up (or actually does)? If so, shes in good company. Extreme nausea can be a physiological response to anxiety, caused by the bodys overproduction of adrenalin in response to the stressful situation. Many professional performers (Barbra Streisand comes to mind) suffer from it. So do I. After about half a lifetime of fighting overwhelming nausea when faced with stress (the Socratic method, as practiced by my Income Taxation prof in law school, was a major trigger), about 5 years ago my internist explained all this to me. He also explained that theres a remedy (and yes, Barbra uses it, Im told). Its propanolol, a beta-blocker normally used to treat heart and circulatory conditions. But its also prescribed for occasional use by those of us who suffer from adrenalin gone wild. Now, if Im in a situation that promises to be extremely stressful, I take one pill. It works. Please, if this sounds like what ails your D, consult with a good internist. I wish I had known about this years ago.</p>
<p>WJB: thank you for taking the time to post. I'm going to print your post to refer to when calling the doctor. My daughter actually does vomit in situations that she perceives to be stressful. This is part of the vicious cycle we're dealing with. She vomited her guts up on the day of the high school placement test and therefore was placed in the "moron math." The cycle continued with her not being as far along on the math track as she should be (even though she's naturally good at math) and feeling unprepared for the SAT, causing her to refuse to eat before or during the test and spending test time fixated on not vomiting. I didn't know there was medication for this. Thank you so much.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, this thing is a vicious cycle: Just worrying about whether one will become nauseated is enough to trigger the feared response! The good news is that, to some degree, Ive outgrown the problem as Ive gotten older, and so probably will your daughter. But the problem never fully leaves those of us who are saddled with it. Please feel free to PM me if you have any other questions, and my very best to your daughter.</p>
<p>i have a question...say you send in SAT scores, what do the admissions people actually do with them? Without a transcript attached, and an application, how seriouslly do they look at a name and a number...I can see gleening the top scorers and perhaps targeting them, but to look at each score and name BEFORE the student even applies and doing anything with it, like creating a file would seem an over whemlming job and waste of time...</p>
<p>And say, a student had the scores sent when they took the test, and then 6 months later, apply with no scores, do you think they spend the time and match up the list and the application?<br>
"Oh, here is Becky, and oh, yeah go through that list we got back in May to see if she took the test..."</p>
<p>Maybe I am wrong, but does anyone think admission offices have the time or the inclination to do that?</p>
<p>My guess, and its a guess, is that they don't really look at scores unless they are stellar so they can start wooing those kids to apply, and other "below" average scores probably just get ignored</p>
<p>When I help Ds school send out transcripts, files are marked whether or not we are to send out SAT scores to the schools</p>
<p>So my thoughts are, picture a really big school, and they get 10000 score reports, do they do anything with them really besides send out mail to those who sent them in</p>
<p>But I could be wrong...does anyone REALLY know what schools do with those big lists of scores they get</p>
<p>I'm not sure what the schools do with the scores, but I do remember my son's college counselor telling us not to send the scores until the fall of his senior year because otherwise they might get lost.</p>
<p>citygirlsmom,</p>
<p>You raise a good point. Here's our experience along those lines.</p>
<p>Last August, S electronically submitted a supplemental app and registration fee to XYZ Univ. The same day I contacted College Board (also electronically) to have SAT Is and IIs sent. Also contacted the ACT people. By paying the basic fees, I was told that scores would be sent with the next upload (4 to 6 weeks). In January, we received word that his file was incomplete -- no SAT scores. Turns out College Board sent the scores out the SAME DAY I made the request. College X didn't know what to do with them (I guess), hadn't processed his supplemental app or registration fee, so they disappeared into Test Score Purgatory. They found them when I told them where to look.</p>
<p>So, you may well be right -- when schools receive test scores for which they don't have matching app files, who knows how they are filed? </p>
<p>Another complicating factor in the matching process is how the apps and the scores are IDed. I asked that S not supply his SSN on apps(it was optional in most cases); we'd supply it to the college in which he enrolled. I didn't realize that he had already given the number out to College Board and ACT, so my attempts at internet security were for naught. But we inadvertently made it a little tougher for a couple of the colleges to match his test scores. So we didn't muddy the waters on purpose, but if you can use it to your benefit...</p>
<p>wjb - thanks for that interesting explanation. We were at a hs track meet a couple of weeks ago and noticed one boy upchucking several times *before * his race. Guess he was nervous!</p>
<p>wjb: Thanks also.</p>
<p>It's not for nothing that there is an expression "his heart in his mouth," which is another way of saying he's so nervous he is nauseous.</p>
<p>Zoosermom:
Given your D's acute anxiety-I'd be more concerned with how she will adjust to the pressures of leaving home etal than low SAT scores.
I'd be looking at a local CC to keep the anxiety levels down.</p>
<p>Thank you, but that's not the answer. She has to actually live her life and she does pretty well about most things. She has test anxiety, but with help and support she can overcome it. She did get a 28 on the ACT because she wasn't worried about it. She does well in school and on the Regents exams. We don't want her to stay at home and miss out on opportunities. On a personal level, she is dynamic, fun and outgoing.</p>
<p>The SAT also caused a "strange physical reaction" for my kid too. That is why I read many threads about the ACT vs. SAT very carefully and saw some connection between sports kids and outcome on these tests. My kid took the Kaplan course and everytime she had a practice test she came out white as a ghost, was very quiet and said her head was numb. This was not nerves- as it was practice tests only. I read some other responses from kids on cc who also said their head felt numb or tingling after the SAT. Whether some kids are "wired" differently and this type of test causes them to react this way, I do not know. My d had none of these physical reactions to the ACT. Because of this, I only had her take the SAT one time only. The difference in her demeanor after taking the SAT vs. ACT was like night and day.</p>
<p>Zoosermom: Every situation is slightly different, so I hope that my own daughter's experience might be helpful for you. She was convinced that she didn't test well, and she fell into a self-fulfilling trap. Although she did quite well on practice tests, the actual scores were much lower. The college counselor kept saying that she had a beautiful transcript but that her scores were too low, and she felt a lot of pressure and hence performance anxiety. The March and October scores were exactly the same on all three portions of the SAT. After being deferred from the school that she applied to ED, she took the SATs again in January. This time there was no pressure, and she scored 200 points higher. Good luck --</p>
<p>For so many students the tests are not a good indicator of how they perform in school now or how they will perform in college. It is an artificial determination in a setting they will not experience in school. I would like to see more schools choose to go test-optional and rely on predictors based on past performance, like grades and recommendations.</p>
<p>I would agree that tests are often not a good indicator of potential success (although more often than not, they are...).</p>
<p>But comparing students from such disparate high schools is very difficult without some kind of leveler, something that allows adcoms to compare student A to student B. If an "A" were the same in all schools, if all schools had the same level of difficulty, impossible as that notion would be to put into practice, there would be less need to rely on standardized tests. </p>
<p>As it is, the SAT or ACT, imperfect though these tests may be, are the best vehicle to compare kids.</p>
<p>Can you site a scientific study that demonstrates convincingly that the SAT/ACTs are the "best vehicle" to compare kids?</p>
<p>It is my understanding that these tests are only significantly correlated with performance during the first year of college, nothing else.</p>
<p>Seems like a poor indicator of ultimate success</p>
<p>Does your daughter get nervous in an interview situation also, or do you think she would ace a one-to-one with a college rep? I ask because I remember reading about a good student -- mostly Bs -- but only 900 on the old SAT. She arranged an interview with the college rep and confronted the test scores head on, explaining that she was not good test taker but she was a very good student and a hard worker. She got in. All your daughter's other on-paper attributes, plus a strong interview, could easily help admissions look past the SAT scores.</p>
<p>"I would like to see more schools choose to go test-optional and rely on predictors based on past performance, like grades and recommendations."</p>
<p>Are grades really better predictors -whatever that term means in the mind of most? In theory, that should be true. However, are all grade created equal? Is it unheard to see two school housed a few hundred yards from each other that have grading policies 180% apart? With schools reporting more than 40% students earning an A average (or at least 40% of students presenting the SAT) the grades policies are deserving as much -if not more- criticism than the much maligned SAT. </p>
<p>Letters of recommendations? Simply think about the meaning of the term! Does this mean all letters should be glorifying? High schools should provide meaningful and measurable elements; LOR are simply not one of them. At best it is an exercise in futility. And there is a LOT worse to say about this poster child for gamesmanship. The presumption is that high schools would use such device with honor and competence. A hard hurdle for many! </p>
<p>I have little positive to say about SAT-optionals schools. I would be far more impressed if such schools would simply opt out of the College Board ENTIRELY, and be refused ANY TCB information related to the students applying at such schools. Bates, Mt Holyoke, and the others gamers would be left to develop or rely on everything but the SAT. Playing both sides of the fence is what it is all about. Anyone care to comment on the ulterior motives of Middlebury? I'd say it the first six start with USNEWS ... </p>
<p>After kicking and screaming about the SAT, we realize that there is little or nothing that could replace it. We NEED a standardized test to provide checks and balances to the local and regional procedures and policies. The ACT has been "trying" to build a better mousetrap for years, and the result is far from being a BETTER test. The SAT has been around for 80 years, and has been THE standard for 60 years in quality, integrity, and effectiveness. It might be a pain in the butt of every college-bound student, but it is also that is highly beatable. </p>
<p>It is a lot faster learning to beat it than spending time and energy complaining about it.</p>
<p>PS Most "indicators" suffer when analyzed separately; the situation changes when coupled to "other" indicators.</p>
<p>Jazzymom- we did something similar with SUNY Albany- There was a question on the supplemental application that allowed you elaborate to on any "defect" or problem area. (It may may have also been worded differently- but it gave you the opportunity to add that extra bit of info). We decided to confront the SAT issue head on. We emphasized that her ACT score and grades were much more indicative as to the type of student my d is and not to give too much weight to her SAT score. Something must have worked, as she did get into SUNY Albany.
It may also be a good reason for taking the test only once if you really bomb out on it. As one of the parents said earlier, they may assume you were sick or having a bad day if they only see one bad SAT score. If they see two bad scores it will just emphasize that you don't do well on the SAT.</p>
<p>"Does your daughter get nervous in an interview situation also, or do you think she would ace a one-to-one with a college rep?"</p>
<p>She has done great on interviews in the past and has interviewed already at a couple of colleges, so I don't think that would be a problem. I'm seriously leaning toward having her retake the SAT without sending it anywhere but relying on her ACT scores for admission.</p>
<p>"The SAT has been around for 80 years, and has been THE standard for 60 years in quality, integrity, and effectiveness."</p>
<p>Lemann notes how the SAT did come with a better test in the early 90s - one that both 1) was a better predictor of college success; and 2) corrected for the impacts of income, parental education, and demographics of the school catchment area. </p>
<p>They fired the guy who came up with. It wouldn't have made their secondary purchasers (white, middle to upper-middle income parents) particularly happy.</p>
<p>So they sold their integrity for money.</p>
<p>Anyhow, if she has already done well on the ACT (a 28 is way above average), I don't think there is anything to explain, and no fuss to be made. What's the big deal? Why retake the SAT at all? She's already proven she is a good test-taker.</p>