<p>Alright - so Tisch said I have the talent, NYU said I don’t have the academics. </p>
<p>I heard that BoCo really does not care at all about what your SAT scores are, just that you did them and that as far as grades go - you just need to pass each class. </p>
<p>Is this true?</p>
<p>Yes. Boco is very relaxed as far as grades go.</p>
<p>I didn't even thing that grades matter at BoCo, because you don't have any Gen. Ed classes, but I could be wrong.</p>
<p>Yes, (grades do matter) as you certainly would be taking Liberal Arts courses.</p>
<p>P>S> However, viewing applicants SAT scores might be more relaxed. Just wanted to point out that you will have to take "Gen. Ed. classes." Hope that helps.</p>
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Tisch said I have the talent, NYU said I don't have the academics.
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<p>I'd be curious how anyone would KNOW this information because that is not how admissions works at NYU/Tisch. They do not inform applicants of "results" of one portion of their admissions process. You can't be accepted artistically but denied academically, nor vice versa. Each counts 50% of the process and the decisions are made at the admissions office. You do not find out if you are "in" one way but not the other. You can't even be in one way. Your entire package is evaluated. </p>
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I heard that BoCo really does not care at all about what your SAT scores are, just that you did them and that as far as grades go - you just need to pass each class.
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I didn't even thing that grades matter at BoCo, because you don't have any Gen. Ed classes, but I could be wrong.
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<p>BOCO evaluates your entire application which means your audition and recs and application and academic qualifications. However, the academic "bar" at BOCO is pretty low compared to many other BFA schools. You must have at least a 2.7 GPA to get in. That is pretty low. SATs are required but again, the bar is set fairly low there. There are required courses in Humanities at BOCO. While academics are not the biggest factor in getting into BOCO, the school does review your academic background and even a writing sample. It is just that the academic bar/level is not too high to get in.</p>
<p>Although I know Boco sets a 2.7 minimum as what they would prefer, I do know several students who have been accepted with lower GPAs. A 2.7 is actually the equivalent to a B- average, which is not bad by any means. And some other schools like UC, Roosevelt, U of Hartford and Ithaca don't actually have the highest of academic standards either. As long as you don't have alot of grades below a solid C, you should have a pretty good chance of being accepted if they want you bad enough talent wise. Also, as far as I know, Boco DOES NOT require SATs, but the application does say that if you did take them, they would like to see what they are. But they are not a requirement for admission. That is what last years app said anyway. I'm not sure if that has changed at all from last year to this year. To supplement your less than stellar grades, it would be good to really write a strong personal statement. An articulate personal statement may really show them how strong of a writer you are, even if you weren't the most successful in a conventional high school setting. It's not a definite, but it could help you.</p>
<p>Just remember, your academic performance, unfortunately, is a reflection of your work ethic. And when you are up against someone who is just as talented as you are, but they have the better grades, they are more apt to accept the person with the better academic record. Which is why it is important to ROCK your audition with Boco as it is the primary cause for admission. Things like grades and the essay are only looked at once they are interested in you talent wise. If you don't have the talent, they won't consider you at all. </p>
<p>If you feel that your grades are lack luster, I'd recommend writing a secondary personal statement, which some schools allow you to do. If you feel there is something they should know as to why you feel high school was not successful for you, share it with them. It can't hurt. If you want it bad enough, it's worth a shot.</p>
<p>Lastly, Boco only requires it's MT majors to take ONE liberal arts per semester. Which is why they are so laid back as far as grades. Usually if you took an AP class, or in my son's case, transferred from a JR college with a ton of humanities courses under his belt, you may not have to take them. So in reality, outside of the theatre history and lib arts, you really aren't required to do traditional academic work</p>
<p>dcaron's info is very accurate. SATs are not needed. I did not take them. I took ACTs. There is one lib arts course per semester which can easily be made up over the summer or whenever you choose if you would rather not take them at BoCo. This is understandable as the work load is quite hefty without the lib arts class. I took my credits for this year online this summer at Bunker Hill CC.</p>
<p>Also, I do not believe that BoCo has a low academic bar. They do however, weigh the audition much more heavily than the application. And there is no shortage of very smart people at the school. I know many people who could have had there pick of schools, including ivy leagues, but chose boco for its training. Personally, I was accepted into every school that I applied to academically (including NYU), it was only some of the theatre programs that i did not get into. I was more attracted to a concentrated training program where i could focus 100% on my training and not be distracted with having to do coursework from classes not in my field. I can learn other things and futher my full education by reading and learning on my own. I don't need to pay money for these classes. But that is just my opinion. You may have a different one.</p>
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Also, I do not believe that BoCo has a low academic bar. They do however, weigh the audition much more heavily than the application. And there is no shortage of very smart people at the school. I know many people who could have had there pick of schools, including ivy leagues, but chose boco for its training
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<p>Isaac, surely there are very smart people at BOCO and surely there are students who attend who had the academic qualifications to get into more selective academic colleges but chose BOCO for the MT training! My own kid got into BOCO and she had very good academic qualifications and in the league of selective schools academically speaking. Still, that doesn't refute that the academic bar to be admitted to BOCO is not that high. It is clearly EASIER to be admitted academically speaking to BOCO than to NYU or UMichigan for example. However, there are students at BOCO who have the academic stats for an NYU or UMichigan but simply chose BOCO. My kid could have done so too. But by the same token, I know kids at BOCO, for example, who could not have gotten into NYU or UMichigan academically. I have even recommended BOCO to applicants who are not qualified for certain schools academically but who might have a chance at BOCO on the academic end of things because their bar to get in academically is lower than at more academically selective schools. </p>
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Personally, I was accepted into every school that I applied to academically (including NYU), it was only some of the theatre programs that i did not get into.
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<p>I understand such an outcome at schools that inform applicants of academic acceptances separately from BFA acceptances, but I don't understand how you know or are able to state that you wree accepted academically to NYU but not to the theater program. You can't be accepted separately to NYU without the BFA and they do not inform you of such a decision. It is a combined process in terms of academic and artistic review. How is it that you were accepted there academically or would know that? There is no acceptance of that nature. You can predict what factors might have contributed to a denial or acceptance, but I am unclear how you can state of an acceptance academically at NYU. I can understand if you had the qualifications academically to be considered there, however. More than that, I don't know how anyone would know the rest. Perhaps I am just not understanding.</p>
<p>Dcaron, does your son go to BOCO too?</p>
<p>I reveived two letters from NYU. The first told me that I was admitted to the school but I had to wait to hear from Cap 21. The second told me that I was not admitted to Cap. I don't know if that is an abnormality in how they do things, but it is how it happened for me. </p>
<p>On the matter of academic bars in geneal, I was lead to believe that schools like NYU or CMU (competitive academic schools) would relax their academic standards if they were presented with a student who they thought was very talented. BoCo is a conservatory, and in accordance with that they have little to do with academic education. Therefore it is less of an issue when looking at prospective students. I suppose that we are both right about it, I just felt that talking about the academic requirements like they don't even exist gives the school a bad name.</p>
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I reveived two letters from NYU. The first told me that I was admitted to the school but I had to wait to hear from Cap 21. The second told me that I was not admitted to Cap. I don't know if that is an abnormality in how they do things, but it is how it happened for me.
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<p>I have never heard of that. There is one letter that say you are admitted to NYU's Tisch School of the Arts (meaning both academically and artistically). Then, about a week later, there is a letter telling which studio you are assigned to. I have never heard of being admitted to NYU but not for Tisch. Did you mean you were admitted to NYU/Tisch but didn't get the studio you wanted (CAP21)? That can happen, but you are still admitted. But I have not heard of being admitted to the university but not to Tisch Drama (any studio).</p>
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In the matter of academic bars in geneal, I was lead to believe that schools like NYU or CMU (competitive academic schools) would relax their academic standards if they were presented with a student who they thought was very talented.
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<p>First, I can't speak of NYU and CMU in the same way here. NYU weights academics as 50% of the admissions decision and CMU weights academics 10% of the admissions decision. That is a significant difference right there. Both are selective schools, though NYU is more so than CMU. Their admit rate to the university is lower. At both schools, a student would have to pass academic muster. They are not going to lower the bar too much for a talented kid but they might a bit. But the student needs to be at least in the ballpark and then in the case of NYU, it matters even more significantly as part of the overall admissions decision. A very low GPA, rank, SAT and level of HS courses would not bode well at either school. However, colleges admit people, not numbers, and so they look at the whole package academically and artistically and sometimes one factor that is strong can override another. Still academics need to be reasonably in the ballpark, even if a reach. A super far reach, likely isn't going to get in. </p>
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BoCo is a conservatory, and in accordance with that they have little to do with academic education. Therefore it is less of an issue when looking at prospective students. I suppose that we are both right about it, I just felt that talking about the academic requirements like they don't even exist gives the school a bad name.
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<p>I totally agree that academics are less of an issue at a conservatory like BOCO. However, they do look at academics. But the bar is not that high to jump in terms of SATs and GPA and course rigor. But I know some who wouldn't even be able to get in with very low stats. Still, mediocre stats CAN get in there, which is not true at schools that are more selective academically such as NYU. I certainly didn't say that academic requirements don't exist at BOCO. In fact, I had written:</p>
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BOCO evaluates your entire application which means your audition and recs and application and academic qualifications. However, the academic "bar" at BOCO is pretty low compared to many other BFA schools. You must have at least a 2.7 GPA to get in. That is pretty low. SATs are required but again, the bar is set fairly low there. There are required courses in Humanities at BOCO. While academics are not the biggest factor in getting into BOCO, the school does review your academic background and even a writing sample. It is just that the academic bar/level is not too high to get in.
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<p>Academics will be viewed at BOCO. However, the level that they need to be is not THAT high, or not as high as some selective academic colleges. Thus a student who might not have the academic qualifications for a school like CMU, NYU, UMich, Syracuse, Elon, etc. might still be able to be admitted to a school like BOCO. However, a student capable academically of getting into schools like NYU or Syracuse might also get into BOCO (my own kid did). So, it is not like BOCO has a bad name. It is like ALL of college admissions, however. Some schools are easier to get into academically than others. BOCO is such a school. Artistically it is harder to get into than some others. Artistic review also counts more of the decision at BOCO than academics. But academics WILL be considered there, albeit just not as difficult level of qualifications needed as some more selective schools academically.</p>
<p>When students select schools to which they will apply, they must consider their academic chances vis a vis the qualifications of accepted students AND their artistic qualifcations vis a vis the artistic level of talent required for that school.</p>
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Both are selective schools, though NYU is more so than CMU.
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<p>I'm not sure that's accurate. NYU has a slightly lower overall acceptance rate, but CMU has the edge on stats, especially SATs:</p>
<p>NYU</p>
<p>Average GPA 3.6
37% Acceptance Rate
68% are Top 10%
SAT 1240-1420
ACT 27-31</p>
<p>CMU</p>
<p>Average GPA 3.6
39% Acceptance Rate
71% are Top 10%
SAT 1290-1470
ACT 28-32</p>
<p>Hi Jersey, </p>
<p>I do agree that NYU and CMU in terms of academic selectivity are pretty close. However, in terms of admit rate, I was going with the published admit rate from NYU directly which for the class of 2010 was 28.4%, which is lower than for CMU a bit more significantly than what you listed above. I agree that the SAT range for CMU is a bit higher, though that doesn't suprise me given the sciences and technology at CMU. </p>
<p>The thing with BFA admissions, however, is that NYU counts academics 50% and CMU counts 'em 10% and so it seems for a BFA candidate, the academic admissions to NYU would be a bit tougher. However, artistically the rate of admissions for the BFA at CMU is tougher (about 2% for MT vs. about 7% for CAP21).</p>
<p>Hi Soozie,</p>
<p>I listed stats for 2005 for both schools from US News, but that's an impressive drop in the admit rate for NYU in just one year. I would imagine CMU's admit rate was a little lower last year as well (the significant increase in average number of applications per student, leading to lower admit rates at many schools, was widely reported). </p>
<p>I think non-arts applicants to CMU share some of the same "self-selection" traits as those who apply to the University of Chicago (admit rate 40% in 2005). With CMU's consistently high SAT stats, many with significantly lower scores probably don't bother applying.</p>
<p>In any event, I thought your reference to selectivity was in reference to overall admits in post #12 -- I apologize if I was mistaken. I just think it's important to note that "admit rate" does necessarily equate to "selectivity," especially when stats tell a different story. </p>
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<li>Jersey</li>
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<p>I truly agree with all that you wrote, Jersey! </p>
<p>By the way, an interesting "stat" for CMU is that they break down the stats for admitted students by their individual colleges within the university and for the College of Fine Arts:
Mid SATs CR 590-680 M 610-710 Avg. GPA: 3.54</p>
<p>I had thought that that was what I said as far as my NYU acceptence goes. I got a letter saying I got in and I had said that I don't want to be considered for the other studios beside Cap, so then I got a letter saying that I didn't get into Cap.</p>
<p>I didn't mean to infer that any shmoe with a 1.0 GPA could get into a school based on talent. I know that the student must have grades and scores within reason, but I do know people who have had less than stellar grades get into these schools when they clearly should not have.</p>
<p>Anyone ever heard of being recommended to the Conservatory Diploma Program for dance at BOCO because of low GPA and SAT?</p>
<p>Not sure if anyone else has had this problem, but it’s a big, wide world, so maybe one of you will come forth to commiserate or even offer advice. So here goes:</p>
<p>Back in August, my D and I sat down at the computer and had her SAT scores sent to the colleges/conservatories to which she planned to apply/audition, including Boston Conservatory. My D then applied online to BoCo about a month ago and was thus able to check online to see what materials are still outstanding. Guess what’s missing? Her SATs, of course. I called the BoCo admissions office and spoke to an extremely nice gentleman, who tried to find them. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. I called College Board and they assured me that the scores were processed and sent out to BoCo (on a disk, mailed through the US Postal Service) on August 28, which was about two weeks after we paid electronically. When they learned that BoCo never got the scores, the College Board lady said that she would “launch an investigation” and someone would call me in seven days. Well, 7 days went by. Worried about the scores getting to Boston C before the 12/1/07 deadline, I went online and paid $9.50 again, figuring it was money well spent if the scores would just get where they needed to be. But when I went online today to check, the scores still had not been sent!! I called College Board and they said it can take them up to four weeks to process a request, so that the disk could go out (this time) at the end of November. Eeek! If it goes out that late, it may not make it in time for the BoCo 12/1 deadline. So off I go again to the phone to call BoCo’s admissions office. Another very nice guy tells me it’s no big deal, that we should just get the scores there when we can and and all of that. I ask you guys (more experienced MT and college auditions/admissions moms and dads): Is it worth it to pay the $26 rush fee to have these things sent out in a hurry? The College Board lady did promise that if I decided to send 'em “rush,” she would not charge me for the second $9.50 score I tried to send awhile ago but did not go out. Anyone venture an opinion? Thanks! :)</p>
<p>Can you check at your Ds High School… often the SAT scores are on their transcripts… if they are you can get the high school to mail them to BoCo…</p>