<p>MizzBee,
Maybe calc is on SAP today, there were no calc 7 years ago. As I said, math was middle school material and absolutely needed to be refreshed to pull the decent score.</p>
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<p>SAT math topics come from early high school material as it is taught in the US, although it may be normally middle school material in some other countries. Advanced students who are good in math should have no problem with the actual subject matter, but some may need practice on SAT-specific test-taking techniques.</p>
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<p>Back then, there were organizations saying that the SAT was biased in favor of wealthy people in suburban areas, due to the choice of vocabulary words that wealthy people were more likely to encounter in daily life contexts than poor people or those from rural areas.</p>
<p>I have no idea. When I looked at the practice tests my D was doing, I thought the CR section looked much easier than I remembered and the math section looked harder. Of course, that could be because I have almost 40 years more of speaking and writing the English language and I’m nearly 40 years removed from HS math. The kids today certainly seem to prepare more for the test, though. The only preparation I did was sharpening my number 2 pencils, and I don’t know anyone who did much more than that to prepare.</p>
<p>I can’t compare the level of difficulty because I honestly don’t remember the one I took. I can say that the level of stress has increased dramatically since I took the SAT in 1972. I remember that my counselor told some of us we needed to take “this test” in order to apply to colleges. I signed up for it because he told us to, but didn’t have any idea what the test was- we just viewed as another routine standardized test. No one I knew studied in any way, shape, or form, and as far as I know there were no preparation courses available. I took the test and did well, and then sent my scores to the sole college that I applied, and was accepted, to. Things were definitely different back then!</p>
<p>It seems to me that if a student “forgot” the math that is covered on the SAT I, having gone beyond it, the student didn’t learn it very well to begin with. There are no abstruse questions involving trig identities about sec^2 x. One might have to refresh one’s recollection on right triangles with sides (1, 1, 2^(1/2)) or (1, 3^(1/2), 2), conceivably, but I can’t think of any other questions that require review, for a more advanced math student, who got the material the first time around.</p>
<p>Also, it’s not like the math questions cover the Witch of Agnesi, or other topics where the details might be forgotten.</p>
<p>“Maybe calc is on SAP today, there were no calc 7 years ago. As I said, math was middle school material and absolutely needed to be refreshed to pull the decent score.”</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, I didn’t say calc was on the SAT, but the Geometry that was on the SAT was learned in sophomore year. I am so glad that where you grew up you learned geometry and algebra in middle school but not all American schools were introducing algebra and geometry to 7th graders. Though it is common now, I know I had no trig (which is on the ACT) before junior year.</p>
<p>Agree with QuantMech. I’ve been out of college for a few years, and what I do day-to-day has little to do with algebra or geometry; I can still probably do reasonably well on the test if I took it today. It’s not rocket science.</p>
<p>MizzB #20: That’s what my D said. She took Algebra I as a 7th grader, Geometry in 8th etc. She took AP Calc B/C as a junior. By the time she took the SAT/ACT those subjects were ancient history to her. She retook the test once but ended up sick the day of the tests and decided she didn’t want to restudy material she had taken 2-4 years prior and sit through another 3 hour test as she was busy enough with her senior course load. </p>
<p>Bovertine #19: Yeah, I had looked up the figures after she got the results. I was just surprised that the top math scores equated to slightly higher scores and the mid to bottom equated to lower scores. In the verbal/reading all the scores equated to lower scores before the recentering.</p>
<p>“SAT math topics come from early high school material as it is taught in the US, although it may be normally middle school material in some other countries.”
-Was not true 7 years ago. Maybe it is true today, I do not know. Vast majority of math 7 years ago was from the middle school, I actually was doing the math in SAT/ACT, and was amazed at the low level of math.</p>
<p>" I’ve been out of college for a few years, and what I do day-to-day has little to do with algebra or geometry; I can still probably do reasonably well on the test if I took it today. "
-Maybe you, but most kids do not. They do not teach math correctly. If you were lucky to have taught this subject correctly, I agree, there is nothing to remember, you will know it for the rest of your life. But it is not the common case. Many very advanced kids fail to prep. and they got punished by that. Anybody could score 33 - 34 in ACT math (and whatever corresponding SAT) if they only spend few hours of preparation for math section. Unfortunately, it is not true for Reading and English. If you are a big reader, then most likely than not, your Reading score will be high, if you are a good writer, than most likely than not, your English score will be high. One needs to know own strenghts and weaknesses to develop customized prep. program.</p>
<p>The “normal sequence” for math in US schools is:</p>
<p>9th grade: algebra 1
10th grade: geometry
11th grade: algebra 2
12th grade: precalculus/trigonometry
college: calculus, if needed for major</p>
<p>The actual math on the SAT comes from algebra 1 and geometry, with maybe a little from algebra 2.</p>
<p>Remember that the students on this forum are not representative of the typical students in US high schools, since a lot of them report being two years ahead (i.e. calculus in 11th grade) or feeling that they are “behind” if they only reach calculus in 12th grade. Such advanced students obviously did take the “SAT math” courses in middle school, but if they are that advanced, they should have no trouble remembering those topics, which they use regularly in more advanced math courses that they are taking anyway.</p>
<p>^Most advanced kids are done with algebra in middle school, and that should be a norm. Geometry is such a low level, that we should not be even mentionning it. I still suggest to open practice ACT / SAT booka and see for yourself. If it is a reflection of HS education, it is pretty shameful. To attach any notion of difficulty level to this test is pretty irrelevent. It has absolutely nothing to do with preparation to college academics and no wonder that even best of the best are pretty shocked in the first semester of college and large numbers are fleeing more challenging majors like science related and engineering.</p>
<p>This post was accurate:</p>
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<p>Given this sequence of courses, how do you create a math test that all students can take in their junior year of high school? The answer seems obvious: you include only questions that require a knowledge of algebra 1 and geometry on the test. You don’t include material that isn’t taught until algebra 2 or precal/trig. </p>
<p>This is exactly what the SAT test designers have done.</p>
<p>It’s important to remember that in many U.S. high schools, students do not have the opportunity to progress in math any faster than the sequence shown above, no matter how good they are at math. Those students should not be penalized on the SAT for their lack of knowledge of math concepts that they have not been taught.</p>
<p>^They will be penalized at college, should or should not will be irrelevant. They are penalized, period. Their dreams are derailed, many of them are facing this situation right in the first semester of college. So, should we lower college standards? Oh, yes, that would be a great idea, more jobs for Chinese and Indian engineers, MDs, scheintists. Let’s do it so that no single American student is frustrated trying to fill the academic gap between HS and college.</p>
<p>This is really an “apples-to-oranges” comparison, like most education history comparisons.</p>
<p>I think it’s “easier” today. The testing times are longer so the test does not move quite as fast, the vocabulary is easier, the analogies are gone, the math has not changed…but many kids have accelerated in math so actually have a stronger background when they take the test as a junior.</p>
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<p>I think this is a bit of an exaggeration. </p>
<p>At a very few colleges, in a very few majors, a student who did not take calculus in high school is at a disadvantage. The solution to this problem is to take calculus in the summer between high school and college.</p>
<p>But for most students, the standard sequence is quite acceptable. In fact, you can even be a little bit behind and do fine.</p>
<p>My son wanted to major in computer science in college and pursue a career in that field. He had taken AP AB Calculus in high school but did not score well enough on the AP test to get credit for it. In addition, he scored so low on the college’s math placement test that he had to spend his first semester taking precalculus over before he was allowed to take first-semester calculus.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, he was able to complete the computer science major, with departmental honors, in the standard eight semesters, at a flagship state university. He was then admitted to a top-20 graduate program in computer science as a Ph.D. candidate. A few years later, he gave up the idea of a Ph.D. and completed his education by earning a master’s degree in computer science from that top-20 graduate school. He now has a very good job as a software engineer, earning a heck of a lot more money than I do. </p>
<p>So here’s a student who was actually one semester behind the standard math sequence and who planned to major in a subject that requires a good deal of math. Yet his dreams were not derailed, and if there was any meaningful penalty, I can’t see what it is.</p>
<p>^^ I agree…almost an urban legend…kids come to all different colleges from all different school systems and colleges admit those that they think can succeed.</p>