<p>My jr s took two SAT II tests in May, will take his first SAT I in June. So these are the first scores we have received. </p>
<p>BIO E = 730, MATH I = 670. </p>
<p>Will these scores be sufficient for him to apply to most of the schools that require SAT II's and /or should he take more subject tests? (intersested in Vanderbilt, UCLA)</p>
<p>Despite what many will post here (especially students), those scores are going to be absolutely fine for applying to any school in this country, including the most competitive. Because he's not entirely sure where he's applying yet, and some schools do require three, you might want to talk with him about taking a third, especially if there's one that would play to his strengths. </p>
<p>But don't listen to the posts that suggest anything under 700 on a subject test knocks you out of the running for top schools. </p>
<p>And that bio score is outstanding, btw - that test is a bear.</p>
<p>UCLA does not accept Math I:
[quote]
Two SAT Subject Tests in two different subject areas*:
English (literature)
history/social studies
*mathematics (Level 2 only) *
science
languages (other than English) <a href="emphasis%20added">/quote</a></p>
<p>So he will need another test, either in another subject area or the Math II.</p>
<p>According to the College Board, a 730 on the Molecular Biology is in the 81st percentile of the students who took it, and a 670 on the Math I is in the 73rd percentile.</p>
<p>I don't know if those percentiles are "absolutely fine for applying to any school in the country" (particulary the Math I).</p>
<p>EDIT--For ecological Bio, 730 is 91st percentile. I don't know--does E Bio qualify for science requirement ???</p>
<p>Thanks for opinions. Math is not his strongest (although he is taking Honors Pre-Calc right now). He does excel in English & SS so I bet if he took those tests he'll score well. Guess that means his Fall semester will have a few more Saturdays with SAT's.</p>
<p>DizziMom, the curve on Math I is brutal, but the curve on Math II is generous. I would buy a book on Math II and see how he does on sample tests, he might suprise himself and if a school requires Math II he could take that although the best time to take that is in June and he already is taking the SAT I. I would only worry about taking Math II if he wants to major in engineering or science.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry too much about the math score unless he wants to major in engineering, which it sounds like he's not. If he wants, take another test in SS or English. </p>
<p>BTW my D did really poorly in one of her SAT II tests. She was accepted into 2 schools that recommended SAT II, so I suspect that the low test score didn't factor in very much.</p>
<p>Interesting about the curve on Math I because his math score was higher than eng & writing on his PSAT's. </p>
<p>Do the scores you get on the SAT II math compare to the SAT I math? ? ? Do we assume he'll be somewhere around 670 for the SAT I he takes in June?</p>
<p>
[quote]
But don't listen to the posts that suggest anything under 700 on a subject test knocks you out of the running for top schools.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>What are examples we know? I often don't notice SAT Subject Test scores in stats posted in admitted student threads, but when I look at SAT Subject Test percentiles </p>
<p>there are certainly some SAT Subject Tests for which a high percentage of students get the peak score of 800 (which in most cases is not flawless item content performance). I'm just curious here if anyone has heard statements about this from college admission officers </p>
<p>or can point to other evidence that there is a broad range of scores that is high enough for colleges at least as selective as Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>Take genuine sample tests </p>
<p>to get a sense of how your child would do on a real test.</p>
<p>tokenadult, though I'm well aware that the plural of anecdote =/= data :), I could list at least fifteen kids I know personally who applied within the last three years and are now accepted at or attending schools at the top of the first tier, all of whom had at least one subject test below 700. And those are the ones I can come up with without thinking hard.</p>
<p>Should I have included a big caveat, along the lines of "if the rest of your child's scores and his GPA are very strong"? Probably. </p>
<p>I also should have said "on a single subject test" - because that's really my main point. If everything else is competitive, then it just doesn't matter if one test is under 700. Schools are going to look at the whole folder.</p>
<p>I agree that much less weight is given to SAT II scores than you would think from this forum.<br>
I also want to warn about the Math II test. Everyone carries on about the great curve, by both my son and my niece (niece took college calc as a hs junior at Ursinus) got really low scores and thought it was impossible. Of course, neither prepared at all!<br>
I would have your son try the Lit test- you can't prepare and he would probably do fine. He should also take the Math II (espec if applying to UCLA), but he either needs to prepare or not be surprised at how hard it is.
I also know many, many kids at highly selective schools despite "low" SATII scores.
I think kids score much higher on the math part of SAT I (it's a lot more basic) than on SAT II.</p>
<p>My opinion and methodology only here: I look at the the type of students that a school admits to see where their SAT2s fall. For schools that require SAT2s, if the kids are top 10% type kids, and your kid's SAT2's are not in that range, it is going to be a reach. Really, what the SAT2s most often do is see if the grades in the courses are a good indication of the material covered and learned when using a standard measure. Folks I know who have kids with high grades, tough courses, but not good test takers stayed away from SAT2 schools, and focused on getting those SAT1 scores as high as possible rather than spreading the attentions too thin. </p>
<p>If your child is going to a school not on the radar of top schools, those SAT2 scores are particularly important. </p>
<p>Also my two older kids took Math 1 rather than 2 because they were not math inclined kids; their interests made that clear. They did not appear to take a hit for that, though if a Math 2 is clearly required, as UCLA does, the student would have to take that. There is a whole section on UC requirements that I remember reading a few years ago, that was interesting in measuring importance of SAT2 scores in that system.</p>
<p>Remember that UCLA does not require the Math II. Students are admitted with no math SATII at all. UCLA simply says that if you submit a math SAT II, it has to be the Math II.</p>
<p>If your son submits, say, Literature & Bio, that's fine.</p>
<p>d-mom:</p>
<p>Those scores are fine for Vandy, but as others have noted, the UCs will not accept Math 1; Math 2 is highly recommended for UC engineering schools. However, if you are looking to be competitive for Vandy merit money, 750+ is always better.</p>
<p>Our experience is the opposite of MomofWildChild....most of my son's friends thought Math 2 was 'pretty easy' with no prep; but they had no comparison since they didn't take Math 1. Lit is a good suggestion, but be wary that one of the poems is always a bear to understand.</p>
<p>Dad-2/token: I don't think % much matter on subject tests bcos the students are self-selecting. Thus, the much easier "curve" for Math 2. And, remember, the Subject Tests are designed to cover material taught in a College Prep or honors class. But, many of those 800's are earned by kids taking AP courses in that subject, and earning 5's.</p>
<p>I don't know how important SAT II is for admission or scholarship. DD got decent SAT IIs: Math II 800, Phys 800, Bio M 750, US His 750. She did not get one penny of merit aid from one single schools, except a full tuition from OSU because her NMF.</p>
<p>Addition: Math II is the easiest and Bio is the most difficult based on DD's case.</p>
<p>^^ only in the world of cc would 800/800/750/750 be considered "decent." Yikes, those are OUTSTANDING, dad.</p>
<p>My S's experience was the same as MOWC's description--despite a 750 on math SAT 1, his SAT 2 Math2 was really low, much lower than the Math 1, which he subsequently took.</p>
<p>As to the overall question, S had two SAT 2's below 700, and two above--one of those being the Writing which is now part of the SAT 1. He got into an Ivy with those scores, coming from a subpar HS.</p>
<p>Guess these tests will also show us what he really does find interesting enough to remember the material. He has been going back & forth on what to study. This week - Anthropology & Music (clarinet performance) - are his interests. Notice the "this week" because it has changed often. But he does have far off ideas of then continuing on into Law. </p>
<p>I am very happy with his first attempt at all of this. We shall see what the June SAT I brings us.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Everyone carries on about the great curve, by both my son and my niece (niece took college calc as a hs junior at Ursinus) got really low scores and thought it was impossible. Of course, neither prepared at all!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am always amazed how people decide to sit for a standardized test without ... preparation. While I understand that there are students who are able to rely on their academic preparation (or plain brilliance) the majority of students in the United States DO need an adequate preparation. This preparation ranges from simply becoming aware of the test all the way to an extensive and dedicated preparation. </p>
<p>Despite many claims to the contrary, the tests are not similar to the tests taken in high school, except when the teachers decide to incorporate SAT testing in their own curriculum. </p>
<p>For the instance, the SAT Math Level 2 is known to not only test one's mastery of math but also his or her mastery of a graphic calculator. Students who know how to make a TI-89 "sing" will have a considerable advantage. That is why students will either find the test hopelessly hard or an extremely easy path to a perfect score. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, the key to all SAT test is ... preparation, and there is no glory whatsoever in waking up (too early) on a Saturday to drive to a SAT center without a modicum of preparation.</p>
<p>Well, my son DIDN'T get into an Ivy, and the only standardized test score below 750 that he had was a 680 on one SAT II (out of four, this the only one he took in 10th grade, before the penny dropped SAT-wise). It doomed his applications! </p>
<p>(No it didn't. Who knows whether it made any difference at all?)</p>