<p>They’re both partially built like IQ tests, but neither can truly be considered one.</p>
<p>@Philovitist the 2005 changes in the SAT format are significant enough to throw substantial uncertainty on the correlation between new SAT scores and IQ.</p>
<p>Oh, I didn’t know about those changes.</p>
<p>The tests don’t correlate with IQ. A lot of the verbal score is based on how well you read. There is an old study of fourth grade reading scores and IQ which found that when you eliminate those with low-end IQs there is almost no correlation between IQ and reading score. Part of this is, of course, due to things like dyslexia, but even among those who have no learning disabilities, some of the best readers have only slightly above average IQs and some of those with high IQ scores don’t understand a lot of what they read.</p>
<p>Part of this is due to the fact that IQ scores not only measure a group of abilities, they shake the abilities into one number and call it IQ. As the principal of my kid’s elementary school used to say, it’s like asking which drink has the most “fruit juice.” One drink may be 90% real fruit juice and another may only be 80%. If we asked which one has the most apple juice or the most orange juice or the most pomegranate juice, we’d get different results. IQ tests often measure spatial perception. I’m bad at that. That doesn’t mean that someone with a higher IQ overall is going to beat me out in any other subcategory.</p>
<p>I did read somewhere (I think on CC) that no matter how much studying you put in, you can only attain a “maximum score” in accordance with your IQ. So if your IQ is x, you could only hope to attain a score of </=y, and additional studying may bring your score up to y but no higher. However, I cannot verify this, but it sounds somewhat plausible. After all, have you ever heard of someone scoring a 1500 on the first try and ending up with a 2300+ after intense studying?</p>
<p>Agree that the difference presented between the correlation between ACT /IQ and SAT/IQ is not statistically significant. Also, just look at the questions in the good study books (Blue Book, Princeton Review, etc) for SAT and ACT. They are not all that different (other than ACT having the Science section, and that just tests your ability to read and comprehend scientific literature with tables, graphs, etc). The SAT math, reading, and English questions are MUCH like the ACT ones, and the SAT ones do not take any more “logic” to figure out. My son does agree that the SAT math problems are a little “trickier”, or take more thought, than the ACT ones, although he says that the ACT ones cover higher level math. I think that a school suggesting that the “smart kids” take the SAT and the “lower kids” take the ACT is pretty ludicrous. I think that every kid should take both, to see where his/her strengths lie. Serenity Jade, do you live on the East Coast? Just curious, as I have heard that some schools there have the old perception that the SAT is more like an IQ test (which is outdated; it was more like an IQ test before they changed the format around 7 years ago!).</p>
<p>I live on the East Coast. And the school advocates taking both but recommends that lower income and students who have a harder time in school take the ACT saying that they fair better on it. </p>
<p>Personally, I only took the SAT because I didn’t feel like bothering with the ACT.</p>
<p>This is a great discussion on standardized tests. Several very strong points have been made. As Director of Undergraduate Admission at a small private college in the northeast, I have been involved with the transition of my institution (as well as the previous school that I worked at) toward a test-optional policy. </p>
<p>I recently wrote a post on standardized tests and how they are used in the application process by schools. Feel free to check it out and share your comments and questions. New questions and topics are always welcome and many will be covered on the site’s front page.</p>
<p>The major concerns that surround standardized tests root in the ultimate fairness and usefulness of the test. While some larger schools with tens of thousands of applicants may feel they need standardized tests to assist with admission decisions, a rapidly growing segment of smaller schools are doing away with what some see as an archaic model that fails to provide accurate and helpful data in the application review process.</p>
<p>As has been mentioned by some of you already, the SAT (as well as the ACT and SAT II) is claimed to have a correlation to certain success factors such as retention and graduation rates from college. However, the <em>greatest</em> single tool colleges have to judge a student’s ability to succeed at their school is the high school transcript. The courses a student took, trends we see in their grades, the level of rigor within their course load, and of course their grades, all provide a more accurate sense of a student’s ability to succeed at a particular college. In order to tackle the discrepancies between opportunities at different high schools, colleges use a “profile” provided by high schools that assists us in decoding a transcripts. We get helpful information about the overall peer group of a student, such as average GPAs within this group, that guides us in getting an overall sense of what opportunities a student was presented with, what he/she took on, and the overall performance.</p>
<p>A larger ethical issue that I and many others have with standardized tests is the lack of fairness. It is impossible to account for the diverse background of students taking standardized tests and build a test that is culturally neutral to all students. There are plenty of studies conducted that illustrate the unavoidable cultural bias built into these tests.</p>
<p>Finally, as some of you have mentioned, standardized tests provide the opportunity to practice or take a course designed to assist you with testing “strategies”. With some of these preparation courses costing thousands of dollars while promising specific increases in test scores, it is very apparent that those with the financial means and willingness to take such a course are bound to have an unfair advantage on those that can’t afford these resources.</p>
<p>I look forward to continuing to watch this discussion. </p>
<p>Best of luck with your college search and applications!</p>
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<p>That’s a more significant correlation that it might sound like. Even one IQ test won’t have a 1.00 correlation with another, though it might be around .90 or so. At any rate, both the SAT and the ACT seem to be better predictors of IQ than almost anything else out there aside from another IQ test.</p>
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<p>This is true, but success rate is not the same as IQ. I don’t think that IQ is as big a deal as people make it, but the correlation between grades and IQ doesn’t seem to be well established and certainly doesn’t exceed that between IQ and ACT or SAT.</p>
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<p>This is true, but all of those variables go into grades, as do a few more: how hard your teachers are, which classes you’re taking, how hard your school is, how motivated you are, how good your organizational skills are, etc.</p>
<p>At any rate, I think that while SAT and ACT scores don’t work perfectly for this, they work better than most other standardized tests (SAT Subject Tests, APs, etc.) because of how basic their material is and, conversely, the tricks with which it’s presented. Basic reading, math, grammar, science, etc. is what everyone’s expected to have learned in high school; people’s analytical and critical thinking skills are what differentiate them from one another past that.</p>
<p>Emberjed, I completely agree with your points about IQ and apologize if it seemed that I was speaking to the contrary. I also agree that all standardized tests are inherently flawed and cannot be perfect. This is a large factor in the shift away from the importance of these type of tests within the admission process.</p>
<p>For students interested in test-optional schools and more information on standardized testing, fairtest.org is an excellent resource.</p>
<p>admissioninsider: I do not envy your job! It must be very difficult. I am curious as to what you do if a school’s profile is woefully inadequate and gives you no information on the student body’s GPA/grade/SAT/ACT/AP distribution or how GPA is calculated. Would you contact such a school to request grade and standardized test distribution data? </p>
<p>I believe our school’s grades probably average a C, heavily caused by most teachers’ being very harsh graders; however, the school refuses to put any information on the Profile to this effect, nor does it rank. When I requested for this data to be added to the Profile, the GC said, “no college has ever asked for grade distribution charts.” </p>
<p>By the way, a funny note on cultural bias. My dd missed a standardized test math question which assumed the student knows how layaway works financially. If we don’t have the money, we don’t buy it. She had no idea what “layaway” is!</p>
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<p>Studies have consistently shown that the SAT is not biased against blacks or Hispanics in the sense of underpredicting their grades in college relative to whites with the same test scores. Group differences do NOT prove cultural bias. By grade 12 it appears that some groups do have higher “scholastic aptitude” than others on average. Admissions officers don’t want to face reality.</p>
<p>AdmissionsInsider or anyone else,</p>
<p>Does anyone have an idea why colleges do not use AP/IB scores in the admissions process (at least for those students who go to HS’s with such programs). I know a few like NYU that allow AP scores to substitute for standardized tests, but not many. Most seem not to even care about AP scores and at most may look at the scores in admissions if you send it to them. Yet, these same colleges give college credit for 5’s and sometimes 4’s and 3’s, thus in most cases more typical of what college students will encounter than either the SAT or ACT.</p>
<p>My son is profoundly gifted and did better on the ACT. Who knows? Could depend on how he felt the day he took the test.</p>
<p>momofmusician17,</p>
<p>How old is your son, and how (and when) did you notice that he was so talented?</p>
<p>Hi muckdog- I have to ask what area you live in and the name of your tutor- sounds like he /she idid an excellent job.</p>
<p>i dont think thats necessarily true because one can work hard to obtain a higher score.</p>
<p>Hi shastad2,</p>
<p>Northern Virginia, and the tutor’s name was Peter Ufland.</p>
<p>Much of the ACT, at least, is not terribly difficult. What makes the ACT so difficult is the time crunch. The thing is, some students don’t have the information processing speed that other students have, however a exceptionally bright. </p>
<p>Information process IS a part of most IQ tests. However, it is ONLY one part of an IQ test.</p>
<p>With that being said, had a friend in high school who took the ACT the first time and got a 21. Not bad, but not terribly impressive at the same time. Went to a psychologist to get tested for ADHD. When he took the test, the psychologist noticed he had a significantly low visual processing and information processing score.</p>
<p>He ended up being diagnosed with ADHD and getting put on Meds. A few months later he took the ACT with reasonable accommodations (separate room, time and a half). Ended up scoring a 33!</p>