<p>Actually, Calmom, I think your daughter's experience illustrates my point fairly well. Her actual test grades in geometry reflected the fact that she wasn't being taught well, and her body of knowledge might fall short. Her experience in algebra and, I'm assuming on math standardized tests illustrates that she's a bright hard-working girl, but may have difficulty with a high stress timed test. Both suggest that she might benefit from review/prep in geometry, but probably won't make an 800 in math, and rather than reviewing algebra, might benefit from practicing slowly increasing speed on working problems to preserve accuracy. Yes if you just look at her final grade, you might draw the wrong conclusions, but not if you evaluate what you know to be her true performance.</p>
<p>What I was really referring to was the mindset that I'll take this kid that had a C average in geometry and 50th percentile CAT scores, send him to a $900 SAT prep course and end up with a 750 score in math - mostly that isn't going to happen. Or a kid whose idea of reading is CD liner notes and video game dialog boxes, being able to memorize a few vocab words and get an 800 verbal - that ain't happening either.
I don't at all disagree with your comments about the essay - I think after a couple of rounds of tests that it will become more coachable than any other part of the test, or that the grading will tighten up so much that it will be impossible to score well. I also think that it may penalize truly good writers.</p>
<p>I am surprised to see so much negativity on the Princeton Review...when I first came to this board about two years ago when my oldest was prepping for the SAT, and I asked about prep course options, I got solid recommendations for PR. I surfed and posted quite a bit (I do remember Xiggi - can't believe you're still here!) and most definitely do not recall anything as extreme as a 9:1 ratio against PR. I did quite a bit of research on prep courses and made my decision in part on the positive reviews I found here. I was not disappoinetd - our experiences with them were nothing short of excellent and I would recommend them without hesitation. Perhaps for the super-achievers on this board, the Honors version of the course (are they still calling it that?) would be a better option than the basic course.</p>
<p>I have returned to CC because my middle S needs to prepare for the new SAT, and well, I'm not as up on that as I became on the old one. I was not aware of the "SAT for Sophomores" course, TomsMom, so thank you for mentioning that. I will look into it.</p>
<p>Perhaps with all the changes to the new SAT people aren't as comfortable with non-official materials yet, but I will be glad to dig back in and see what's out there today. I've only just started reading through Xiggi's thread on his method and it's quite helpful, but I do think the simulated tests offer value as well as the real ones. Especially good for stamina and working on timing, which helped my oldest a great deal.</p>
<p>Not sure if this helps, but take it for what it's worth! Looking forward to getting to know a new crop of parents and future college students!!</p>
<p>Xiggi does urge students to take simulated tests, but after the rest of his recommendations have been followed. I think that's very sensible.</p>
<p>Now, I am amused that CC has contributed a neologism that looks likely to be enduring, namely the Xiggi Method. It does not rise to the same level as The Poincarre Conjecture or the Rieman Hypothesis, but it does have a cachet, and, thanks to CC, may achieve a greater level of recognition. :)</p>
<p>I tend to agree with Calmom: School grades don't always give you an accurate indication. </p>
<p>My daughter has been a very consistent B/B+ student in her honors English classes. For the past two years, both of her English teachers have complained to me about my daughter's grammar skills and her somewhat creative (read: unusual) writing style. </p>
<p>Yet, my daughter received an almost perfect score on the multiple choice section of the writing test, which is heavily tied to grammar knowledge, both times she took it. She received a 10 on both essay tests as well, even though she was not able to finish the essay either time. She also turned in a very respectable score on the reading section both times she took it. </p>
<p>So, either the test is screwy, or my daughter deserves MUCH better grades in her English classes. ;) </p>
<p>However, I also agree with Cangel: if a student doesn't have some basic underlying skills/knowlege to begin with, a ten week prep class isn't going to make much of a difference. What a child like that really needs, is ten years of solid teaching.</p>
<p>Maybe your daughter does deserve better grades, but I still think the test is screwy. I'll be entering my senior year at a competitive private school, I have never gotten below an A- in my honors English classes, and yet I received a 7(!) on my essay on the June SAT. Now, you could just say that the grades in school aren't accurate but in my case, I do not agree. My gpa is a 3.97 (unweighted) and my math, critical reading, and the multiple choice part on the writing section did reflect my grades earned in school. The essay though, is really a problem. I have heard of many instances where students received higher scores simply because their essays were longer. (personally, i know of at least 3 people who received 10s and 11s when, to put it nicely, their essays were not well-written) This horrible essay score of mine lowered my writing score a lot when, if scored properly, it really could have increased it (or at least kept it the same). As prep for the next time I take the SATs, I am basically writing longer essays as opposed to well-written essays. Pathetic, isn't it?</p>
<p>PR had nice facilities, nice clientelle, nice teachers, etc I just didn't see the results or efficiency in teaching that I expected for the price. The PR methods are actually extremely intelligent though. They really teach you how to know the test. Its just that we wasted so much time in PR class that it was ridiculous. I didn't take too much teacher instruction from the class, but I do plan on using some of their methods when I do the Xiggi method.</p>
<p>wisywigi - it IS the length of the essay, totally. The essay needs to also be fairly cohesive, but the writing quality doesn't have to be anything beyond proficient. That is, mundane, boring, but proficient with reasonably good grammar can get a 12. Paragraphs filled with blather and sillly assumptions and invented facts are o.k. for a 12. </p>
<p>A brilliant, incisive, but tersely worded - SHORT- essay? If it's well written it gets a 6 - to go below 6 you need to make a lot of grammatical and spelling errors as well. </p>
<p>My daughter's 7 on the ACT was SHORT. My daughter generally tends to write the most profound, amazing, and sometimes hilarious short comments and essays -- her blog is a definite must-read for all her friends. She definitely has a way with words. But it is not standardized test-quality writing. She did better with the 11 on the SAT, but I think the essay was still too short - another 3 lines of padding would have merited a 12, I am sure.</p>
<p>I agree that the PR (and the like) courses are better for kids who are lower range scorers (1000-1150). D (and her school) thought the independent course offered at her school three years ago was a waste of money. For S we hired a PR tutor for about 9 hours. It wasn't cheap, but the young man was really good and it was focused on what S needed to work on. S would not do any prep on his own. They give a full length diagnostic SAT before the tutoring begins. S took that, but wouldn't take the one AFTER the tutoring to see how much he improved. Fortunately, he did fine on both the January old and March new SAT. My personal opinion is NOT to tutor or prep for PSAT (unless you have a real shot at NMSF) but do self-prep with practice tests or tutor for spring of junior year SAT.</p>
<p>I got a 10 on the essay, and a 5 on the AP English language test. Someone explain that to me. On the AP test thjey're looking for actual writing skill. On the SAT they're looking for 5 paragraphs 5 sentences per paragraph, 3 examples, Jane Schaffer format, blah blah blah. I felt like I was a freshman again.</p>
<p>My D's GC (who was also her AP English teacher this year) told us that he was afraid that she writes so well that she might not do well on the SAT/ACT essay. Sure enough, 5 on the AP English language, only 10 on the ACT essay. It lowered her subscore on Eng from 35 to 33. Such a crock.</p>
<p>RE: SAT prep classes at school - I just wanted to throw in my experience.</p>
<p>My school each year invites a small group of students to take a PSAT/SAT prep class at the school. Out of everyone who takes the PSAT sophomore year, the top 60 or so students are invited to participate in the summer and before school class. When I took it, it only cost $40. What we did in the class was essentially what has now been come to be known as the "Xiggi method". In the summer before junior year, the class met for 2 or 3 weeks. For math and writing, they used some pre-made curriculum that taught a certain topic and then referred to problems in 10RS to reinforce the concept. We used about the first half of 10RS as a source of practice questions rather than as full practice tests. For verbal, we did lots of practice problems from 10RS. Each student would work through the passage or set of problems for however long they needed and then as a class (of about 20, since the program was broken into groups), we would discuss answers and go through each correct and incorrect answer choice. </p>
<p>Once the school year got stared, the program met every day from 6:30-7:20 before school started (yes, we were a dedicated bunch to show up every day) and for three hours each Saturday to take a practice test. All the students were divided into three smaller groups and we rotated each morning between three teachers, one for each section of the test. Essentially, each Saturday, we took an old PSAT test and graded it and then for the remaineder of the week, as we rotated from teacher to teacher, we would go through and analyse each question. We would also work some more 10RS problems focusing on a single subject area for "homework". We met every morning until the week of the PSAT. </p>
<p>The results (and our progress itself) was pretty impressive. Just from going though and seeing why we were missing questions, everyone's scores were rising (just as people have reported after doing so on their own). Especially on a section like the writing, for me it was impossible to memorize all the grammar rules, but after taking so many old tests, recognizing the mistakes became almost second nature. Over the years my school (and other schools in the district) have had this program, we've ended up with a pretty good number of NMF's and a massive amount of commended scholars.</p>
<p>yup. that's exactly how it works when it's done right. the key elements:</p>
<p>1) motivated students (6:30am will ensure that)</p>
<p>2) review of themes/patterns</p>
<p>3) cohort of similar scorers</p>
<p>4) practice, practice, practice</p>
<p>5) full-length practice tests in simulated environment</p>
<p>I think this program adds something that you miss in doing the xiggi method solo, which is feedback and explanations from others (could be friends, parents, teachers, a tutor, anyone who is a little more experienced and test-savvy). without that I think you may just be ingraining bad habits and getting frustrated, which you see in a lot of posts from people who have prepped like crazy but whose scores have plateaued. CC is great because people using the xiggi method can post questions about problems they don't understand. sometimes you need somebody to explain why you made the mistake and how not to make it next time on a similar problem. this is more than just getting the official solution.</p>
<p>*My D's GC (who was also her AP English teacher this year) told us that he was afraid that she writes so well that she might not do well on the SAT/ACT essay. *</p>
<p>Quiltguru, while I understand how the situation might disappoint you, it is also does shed light over a huge issue in high schools. If I understand correctly your GC who is well versed in English recognized the differences between what he considers superior writing and what might be expected on the SAT. Well, duh, what did he not spend a few minutes telling your daughter to adjust her usual style to a more formulaic approach. </p>
<p>In my eyes, this is nothing different from passing your driver's test. Most everyone knows how to drive reasonably well at 35-40 mph, yet the officer who gives the test will expect you to drive like the old lady from "Where is the beef!" So, why not comply with the instructions instead of showing "what you can do".</p>
<p>Forgive me to point that the requirements for the essay writing are not exactly new as they were borrowed from the old SAT-II test. Has the GC ever heard about writing to the audience? Did he consider that the test is called a STANDARDIZED test and that the tests will be graded by humans who have to follow precise and robotic guidelines? </p>
<p>This is an issue that has been bothered me for a long time. Parents and students who frequent CC for a few weeks or months are learning the rules of the game pretty fast and are able to master the admission process. So why does this seem beyong the grasp of the HS faculty? For instance, questions about what constitutes a great admission essay will yield a TON of accurate and similar opinions from ... parents. However, based on my personal experience and multiple accounts on CC, teachers who are teaching English in high school seem to provide more erroneous than correct advice about writing essays, be it for the test or for admission purposes. Do they feel the SAT is below their talent level.</p>
<p>College professors as evidenced by Les Perelman attack on the SAT essay also believe that the SAT does not amount to a whole lot. I agree with the assessment but that it is NOT the point. The objective is to complete a rather simple assignment. While college professors cannot do much about the value of the essay, HS teachers can and SHOULD. Their job is to prepare students and that includes giving sufficient directions to great writers to dumb it down and produce the mundane 4-5 paragraphs and two examples. After all, the 25 minutes exercise won't mark the student for life or crimp his or her style in the future! </p>
<p>The rules of the "game" are pretty well established and it is much easier to find ways to beat the SAT or ACT than to fight it.</p>
<p>I took a PR class my junior year. I went into it with a 1340(710m/630v - old). I was impressed with the teacher, he was very good. But he was no help to me. I was supposed to memorize like hundreds of words? Sorry I didn't have time for that. And I didn't need any help with the math. Sooo.... the course took about ~8 minutes on the 30 minute section off my verbal. Before I went down to the wire, and now I had 8 extra minutes. All good except my verbal went down 20 points with those 8 extra minutes. So basically, I worked faster, but my accuracy didn't get any better. And I scored 20 higher on the math, which I don't think the class impacted at all.
Before: 1340 (710-630)
After: 1340 (730-610)
Final Result: 1360 (730-630) and a lot of wasted parent money.</p>
<p>sidenote: there was this girl in the class with a 15something</p>
<p>My children both had substantial one-one-one SAT tutoring with a local tutoring comany. Both were very good students who had scored somewhat disappointingly but still quite well on their first round of SATs; on the second round they each raised their scores substantially. I think the tutoing did help considerably, leading to greater increases than would have been achieved otherwise. The particular tutors our family used were very familiar with my children's school and previous level of preparation, and very skilled at teaching to their strengths and helping minimize their relative weaknesses. I consider the time and money well spent (children's time, actually, and they both felt it was worthwhile), but that's predicated on having pretty good raw material to work with and tutors who really knew what they were doing.</p>
<p>I agree xiggi. My daughter is completing a PR class (very favorable reviews from her btw) and one of the most helpful things she learned was how to tailor her writing to the essay. She is an accomplished writer and has always excelled in English classes. Yet her first essay attempt earned her a 9. The class went over specific ways in which the essay should be structured, types of examples to have ready for various topics, length, etc. Her next two attempts were scored at 11 but she was told by the teacher that the comments indicated that she's more likely to earn a 12. Sure, she thinks the writing style is artificial and not at all what she'd do on her own but having a quick tutorial on the way to approach the thing and not fighting it was quite useful to her.</p>
<p>My daughter has enjoyed the PR class. One of the things she liked most was the approach of the class and the teacher: the SAT is stupid but we're going to give you the skills to "beat it." She found the math assistance most helpful: she's a good but not exceptional math student and she found the approaches she was given very useful. She learned to program certain formulas into her calculator to have them ready when she needs them and ways to approach certain problems that have given her difficulty. She also found that there are certain tested areas in the writing/grammar section and that a bit of orientation was all she needed to do well in that area. The teacher was very frank that the CR section is the hardest to improve.</p>
<p>Will this actually help her? I don't really know. I wanted her to take the class now before she enters the craziness of junior year. When it comes time to prepare for the real thing, she'll probably just practice a lot on her own and go back to her notes from this class.</p>