SAT scores competitive enough?? should i applY?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>I'm with Tokenadult. My son got 800s twice even though his lowest grades were always in English. His secret? He reads about 100 books a year. Most sci-fi and fantasy, but also computer manuals and all that stuff on Slashdot and other news online. When he was younger he also read a fair amount of non-fiction. Also check out Xiggi's advice.</p>

<p>Smile, US History, Math and Chem are fine. You don't need to take more subject tests than that. The only people who really benefit from extra subject tests are homeschoolers who may need to prove that their home studies are equivalent to a high school education.</p>

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<p>Techy233- Good point! If I don't get into Harvard, I'll probably always wonder if a higher SAT score would've made the difference. And I have plenty of time to review so I don't have to cram or rush anything..especially during the summer. I just know I can do better on the math section and I'm really determined to raise my CR reading to a 730+..just to see if I can do it. </p>

<p>If my Writing score goes down and colleges see that, how bad will that look? Because my 790 W was totally unexpected..I only missed 1 MC even though I usually miss 4-5 on my practice tests so I'll probably miss more next time.</p>

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<p>And are you sure 3 times won't look bad? That seems like alot. (Maybe it's just because most people at my school take it like once..2 times max...in senior year. haha)</p>

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<p>"We consider a student's best test scores, but it is generally our experience that taking tests more than twice offers diminishing returns."
Harvard</a> College Admissions Office: frequently asked questions</p>

<p>I found this on the Harvard website.
Should I not take it again? Will it hurt me if I do..even if I get a better score?</p>

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<p>I honestly don't think that 10th grade really counts. Princeton, Yale and Stanford don't even consider frosh year grades. Idt Harvard is going to seriously consider a 10th grade SAT as one. I'm certain that they main a student who perhaps takes it June of senior year, and then in October and December. Your time span favors you.</p>

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<p>Princeton, Yale, and Stanford doesnt consider freshmen year grades??
WHere did you find that information?</p>

<p>That would be amazing! haha, that's when I got my only B. (for just one semester..crazy hard science teacher!). And the last B I plan to get!</p>

<p>I hope not..I just went in sophomore year to get an idea of what the test was like and everything and almost fell asleep during the CR passages. </p>

<p>Do colleges get to see when you took the tests? Or just how many times you take it?</p>

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<p>Harvard's viewbook is revised much more often than the website FAQ section. For years the viewbook has said that you get the benefit of your best scores. </p>

<p>For what one Harvard admission officer said once at a public meeting (after I emailed the question to the Harvard admission office in advance), see </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Of course it IS pointless to retake the SAT unless you'll do better. It is also pointless to devote all your free time to getting ready for the SAT, when there are many more important things to do in life. But if simply reading more widely might make you better prepared for college anyhow, and as a bonus boost your score, then you may as well take the test one more time. </p>

<p>Below is my longer, current FAQ on retaking tests (which includes links to the online version of Harvard's viewbook). </p>

<p>ONE-TIME TEST-TAKING </p>

<p>Colleges have given up trying to distinguish one-time test-takers from two-time or three-time or even four-time test-takers, because that wasn't useful information to the colleges. There are a number of reasons for that. </p>

<p>1) The colleges have utterly no way of knowing who spends all his free time practicing taking standardized tests and who takes them "cold." </p>

<p>2) The colleges are well aware that students who have actually taken the tests sometimes cancel scores, so they have little incentive to give students bonus consideration if the students submit only one test score. </p>

<p>3) The colleges are aware that students who take the admission tests at middle-school age, who are numerous, do not have their earlier test scores submitted by default. </p>

<p>SAT</a> Younger than 13 </p>

<p>Hoagies</a>' Gifted: Talent Search Programs </p>

<p>Duke</a> TIP - Interpreting SAT and ACT Scores for 7th Grade Students </p>

<p>4) Colleges are aware that the majority of students who take the SAT at all take it more than once. </p>

<p>Page</a> Not Found </p>

<p>5) Colleges are in the business of helping students learn, and they don't mind students taking efforts to improve their scores. They know that students prepare for tests. </p>

<p>From the New York Times: "Although coaching would no doubt continue if subject tests replaced the SAT, at least students would be focused on content as much as test-taking strategies, Mr. Murray said. There would also be pressure to improve local high school curriculums so that students were prepared, he wrote.</p>

<p>"These arguments make sense to Mr. Fitzsimmons [dean of admission at Harvard], who said, 'People are going to prepare anyway, so they might as well study chemistry or biology.' He added that 'the idea of putting more emphasis on the subject tests is of great interest' to his group." </p>

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/education/19sat.html?pagewanted=print&lt;/a> </p>

<p>6) And now the College Board is back in the business of letting students choose which test scores to send into colleges, </p>

<p>Score</a> Choice </p>

<p>so now there is less reason than ever to suppose that colleges care how many times you take the test, because the colleges have no way to know how many times you took the test officially. </p>

<p>Colleges treat applicants uniformly now by considering their highest scores, period. </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/349391-retake-how-many-times-take-sat-act.html#post4198038&lt;/a> </p>

<p><a href="http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_GuideApplying.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/utilities/electronic_resources/viewbook/Rollo0809_GuideApplying.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>From the Harvard admission office: "If you submit more than one set of scores for any of the required tests, the Admissions Committee considers only your best scores—even if your strongest SAT Subject Tests or portions of the SAT Reasoning Test were taken on different dates." </p>

<p>Don't worry about it.</p>

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<p>So if I think I'll get a better score, at least in the M and CR section, if I take it again, I should retake it?</p>

<p>Because colleges won't really care that I took it 3 times?</p>

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<p>Also do alot of critical reading passages from the blue book or others (Barrons is a good one) the more you do the more you start seeing a trend. The same few questions come up again and again and again. Also when you're doing them keep in mind that a single passage will almost always only have a single string of answer types. </p>

<p>For instance if the tone is "scholarly" the function of a quotation is most likely "to reinforce the argument" and the purpose is probably something along the lines of "to convince others" about the subject. If you can figure out the general trend of a passage, you can have a good idea about what the answer should be.</p>

<p>Finally, leave the big vague questions in each section for last, the more you do the simpler questions "what is the meaning of ______ as used in line XXX" the more you will be rereading the passage and getting a better idea of what the broader genres like "tone" and "purpose" are. Thus answering those at the end will give you a much better shot at getting them right.</p>

<p>It takes some practice but if you can get the handle of that way of thinking you can ace the Crit reading section (I got an 800 there)</p>

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<p>Thanks! Those are great ideas!!
Yeah, I did all the practice tests from the blue book. I'll probably go back and do some of the CR on it again. How similar are the passages and questions from Barrons compared to the blue book or the actual test???</p>

<p>Wow, it seems like alot of people on CC got 800 in CR!</p>

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<p>Not the best but its close enough, princeton review is one I like as well</p>

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<p>Don't take the SAT anymore than two times if you're planning to apply to Harvard. Taken directly from Harvards site...</p>

<p>"We consider a student's best test scores, but it is generally our experience that taking tests more than twice offers diminishing returns."</p>

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<p>^ How much is it going to hurt me if I do?</p>

<p>Because it's not like I'm taking it three times senior year..just once a year. Does that still look bad?</p>

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<p>I can't say for sure, but I can link you to the source: Harvard</a> College Admissions Office: frequently asked questions</p>

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<p>That doesn't mean don't take it more than two times, that is just simply advice saying it's not recommended to do so. I've taken it three times, once my sophmore year one my junior year and once my senior year. They are right about the diminishing returns, I scored lowered on all but one section the third time.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>It might be a good idea to directly write the Harvard admission office, referencing the URL for that link, and ask if the intended implication is that an applicant to Harvard should not take the SAT Reasoning Test more than twice. I don't think that is the intended implication. </p>

<p>Please report to this forum if you make that inquiry and quote the specific answer you obtain.</p>

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<p>Here's a College Board chart about scores after repeated instances of taking the SAT: </p>

<p><a href="http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Avg_Scores_of_Repeat_Test_Takers.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://professionals.collegeboard.com/profdownload/Avg_Scores_of_Repeat_Test_Takers.pdf&lt;/a> </p>

<p>Note how many times some test-takers take the SAT. In the individual case of your own application, you always have to consider </p>

<p>a) whether you can get a bigger score boost on the next test than the average change in scores, </p>

<p>and </p>

<p>b) what else you have to do with your time that might be more significant for getting you ready for college.</p>

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<p>Yale considers freshman year grades, and your midyear report RD. Apparently Stanford only looks at 10-11, but I'm not sure that applies to any of the rest of HYPSM.</p>

<p>Re-take the SAT if you think you can improve 50 points or more. If not, it just doesn't look good and it's not worth your time. Improving 50 points is easier said than done, because if you've prepared with the blue book, etc. in the past, your SAT isn't going to improve by virtue of the passage of time. But it seems like with some more Blue Book work you could get to a ~2280.</p>

<p>I should also include my belief that SATs mean different things for different applicants. Yes, the 2400s, 2390s, and 2380s (I'm assuming that the essay subscore is looked at with a lot of skepticism, both because of its computer-graded nature, and because they have samples of your writing, so a 1600+780 w/ a 10 on the essay is probably the same as a 2400. IMHO.) are eye-catchers (and, with an otherwise strong application, will almost definitely be accepted), but H isn't just looking for these kinds of people. There are the high 23s, but most of H's admits seem to be in the 2250-2330 area. SATs are hardly incredibly significant, unless, of course, you are extremely good at them. Rigor (APs!) and GPA are much more important for the vast majority of applicants.</p>

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<p>i have almost the same SAT score as you...</p>

<p>2200 (710 CR, 700M, 790 W w/10 essay)</p>

<p>only difference is that you scored 30 points higher in math (which is probably 1 question)</p>

<p>the thing is, are you so sure you can do better in math? a 730 means you barely got any wrong/omitted, which means they were probably careless mistakes. That said, your score could easily go down if you make an extra 1 or 2 "mistakes".....thats just my opinion...i couldn't retake even if i wanted to as i'm taking an SAT II in dec</p>

<p>imo, you have a competitive score, but you have reached a level where it is more likely to decrease your score than increase it, so unless you are certain that you can do better (one way to know this is by taking practice tests and consistently scoring higher than what you got), don't retake.....hope that helped somewhat</p>

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<p>^ Wow! haha that's pretty cool.</p>

<p>Yeah, I think I can still make some improvement on CR. I was just starting to feel more confident about the CR section like a week before taking the SAT but I was really out of time to prepare more. I think if I prepared more, I could be much more confident about it.</p>

<p>I also got a bit stressed on the math section in the beginning because that was the first section I took after the essay...wasn't feeling too alert (We had a break after that section and I drank a Red Bull..and that cleared my mind haha)</p>

<p>But thanks for the advice guys!! I think I'll take some practice tests in the summer...and if I improve I'll take it again October of next year. I was going to take Literature SAT II then but I most likely won't since I've heard it was really hard so might as well give the SAT another try!</p>

<p>Yeah, the only thing I'm worried about is my score going down. But by then, we'll have the benefit of Score Choice so hopefully that'll help. My friend retook it and got 100 points lower her senior year. I really hope that doesnt happen to me! I feel so confident I can do better in at least 2 sections (M and CR) but I was REALLY hoping to be completely done with the SAT so I wouldnt even have to think or worry about it anymore. haha</p>