<p>Cloverdale, since they all require SAT I presumed they prefer that test. I looked at the stats on the CB site and they list stats like 88% of students submitted SAT scores, 30% submitted ACT. Doesn't that mean they prefer SATs? Or not? I wasn't sure how to read them. It's not customary for students to take the ACT here. We're on the West Coast, and mostly looking at California, and a few Washington schools, possibly University of Arizona. Although their SALT program looks too remedial and costly for my child's needs. All the time management, organizational, and advocacy skills were learned in high school.</p>
<p>I could dig for an ACT prep class but we have already paid for SAT prep and I don't want to pay for another class or put my child through the rigors. Does the ACT test offer an oral reader and is one necessary?</p>
<p>Just because most take SAT does not mean it is "preferred" as in --if you take ACT it will be discounted. Most take the SAT in the NE too yet it is absolutely fine to take the ACT. You need to call the individual admissions departments and ask them. They will tell you the straight scoop.</p>
<p>Also California truly is a special situation, and it would be best for your questions to be answered by someone familiar with those admissions. In my neck of the woods I have been assured by all that there will be no prejudice against the ACT. </p>
<p>ACT offers every accommodation that SAT does, to the best of my knowledge, but why not just call ACT and ask. If student needs oral reader with SAT it would probably be needed with ACT too.</p>
<p>SAT prep will help with ACT --you can self-study for whatever part of ACT might be missed by the SAT course or hire a tutor to fill in.</p>
<p>I had the identical experience as cloverleaf7, in nearly every respect...right down to the CB denying my son's need for a keyboard to type the essay on the basis of his outstanding grades---all of which were accomplished using the keyboard accomodation, ever since 5th grade. Because he didn't need extended time due to the keyboard accomodation, he never had that (ET) accomodation in HS, so was ineligible for it on the SAT. I filed two appeals, just asking for the keyboard accomodation, both denied, and then got a lawyer involved. He said my appeals were so thorough, and so obviously correct, that he couldn't add anything. I said "yes you can, a legal letterhead." That didn't work either, despite sending further opinions from a psychologist and an occupational therapist which CB had asked for. The word I got from the professionals I hired were that the CB high level staff people the spoke with by phone were very confrontational. Their story was: my son had great grades, played an instrument, and had played baseball, so he couldn't have a fine motor problem--and they stuck to it.</p>
<p>The good news: he kept up with his other test prep and got great scores, including 800W. He took it again to bump his Math up, and got an 800W again. Go figure. There is a function at the CB website where you can read a scan of the actual handwritten paper--same old barely-legible childish chickenscratch. So, I don't know what to think of this test.</p>
<p>The bad news: the SAT writing portion is a little 15-minute exercise in which content plays little part. As son points out, this blows any chances of him getting the keyboard accomodation for writing-intensive AP tests, such as history and English, where the essay can be an hour, and content is obviously vital.</p>
<p>Well it is a fine line --if your kid can do so well without accommodation, does he really need it? Everything is relative --he probably does need it for AP but perhaps not SAT. </p>
<p>My older son was in a similar situation due to visual processing issue, but the high school would not support extra time. We never applied for it. He got 1500 on SAT at regular time, so can I blame them? No. It is true he could have gotten close to 1600 with extra time, but I have to agree: Anyone who can score a 1500 regular time has no business applying for extended time no matter what "disability" they may have --they have advantages, too.</p>
<p>Yet ...this same older son, who is now at Brown, met with the LD Dean just to ask a question. She reviewed is neuropsych and without him even ASKING he was told he qualified for extended time at Brown!! It never occurred to him it was even possible--he is more than half finished, and apparently by the numbers he could have had it all along. He really does need it due to his visual processing speed --what a difference it would have made for him.</p>
<p>Sometimes there's a fine line and the call can be argued two ways--that is probably the case with my older son and perhaps your kid. Yes when majoring in math and physics at an Ivy slow processing is far more of an impediment than when taking the SAT.</p>
<p>With my younger son, not getting the computer was paralyzing. </p>
<p>CB psychologists are not able to distinguish between absolute needs and equivocal ones. Decisions are inconsistent from person to person.</p>
<p>After all this, of course, no one is even counting the essay in either ACT or SAT. If I had known that, I could have avoided the entire tussle. But the treatment we received is revelatory about CB --I ended up speaking to many parents of LD kids, and I believe CB discriminates against the learning disabled, some of them kids with needs far greater than mine.</p>
<p>ACT does not report it, either. However, ACT has note on top of test saying it was taken under "arranged" circumstances. As to the arrangement, that isn't noted. Since a secretary types the numbers into the file, it seems as if that may never make it to admission committee. </p>
<p>It is, now, illegal to take that into account.</p>
<p>For us, ACT was a godsend. Kid was refusing to take any test because of lack of computer on essay.</p>
<p>My son got extra time accomodation for the SAT via documented ADHD since he was 7. Had frequent testing, IEP, the whole nine yards.</p>
<p>He took it for the first time in January and got Math 800, CR 730 and W 770. </p>
<p>What's now interesting to me, believe it or not, is the essay portion of the writing score - a 9, which is fairly low in light of his writing ability and his other scores. This means on the other parts of the writing section he scored 800.</p>
<p>The light bulb that just went on for me is the handwriting issue - his is terrible to the extent that he has accomodation for it at school. I didn't even try to get an accomodation for it on the SAT.</p>
<p>Oh well, 2400 is good enough in my book, even though he wants to take it again to "raise that CR score". To which I say, give it a rest and move on. </p>
<p>Also, he's going to take the ACT because their is a scholarship at his high school for the girl and boy scoring highest on the ACT. Maybe we should try for the computer on that test and see what happens??</p>
<p>I think it may depend on what accommodations are being requested & of course probably also depends on the support you're able to send in. I am aware of several students who received accommodations, as long as they applied far enough in advance & checked with CB (they have a way of losing info & forms). The accommodations I am aware of that students have gotten for CFIDS & POTS (health conditions which make it very difficult for child to remain upright for extended time--like to sit & take a test) include frequent breaks, extended breaks, & ability to eat & drink during testing. Another friend's son got extended time because he is totally blind in one eye & mostly blind in the other--he would often refuse to use the accommodations, to his detriment.
Other than losing forms (& having to have them resubmitted), CB has been OK for these types of accommodations, from what I understand. It's sad to read that so many have had such bad experiences. With good documentation, can't understand why they would arbitrarily deny accommodations & uphold such denials on appeal, especially with proper medical documentation.<br>
I'm sure there have been past abuses but that doesn't mean they should penalize folks who are only seeking the accommodations justified by their medical conditions. Appropriate documentation is really crucial, tying the request(s) to the child's condition & needs.
My only advice would be to please apply EARLY, since it can take CB months to decide it's position on a request for accommodations (any accommodations granted will remain in place until the child graduates from HS & is available for ALL CB testing--PSAT, SAT & APs). Applying in the spring (like May) for fall (Sept/Oct) testing would be a good idea rather than waiting. Note: kids can opt whether or not to use the accommodation when they register to take the test. Also, there is a separate application if the child needs accommodations for the ACT.</p>
<p>I guess we got lucky. My son was granted accommodations from the CB on his first attempt. I did do it early in the 10th grade. I just filled in the parent section and left the rest to his counselor to decide what documentation to send. I was uneducated at the time and now realize we were lucky that it worked out leaving it in the hands of his counselor. She is a nice woman but she had only been on the job a short time. I was surprised what accommodations he received. Beyond what we expected. He ended up with double time and a reader or cassette version of the test.
He did have a 504 in place and had previously been served by an IEP since grade 2. I don't know if the longevity of his diagnosis helped.</p>
<p>My son had longevity of diagnosis. He was approved for a computer and double time for years, including for psat and sat, and then we moved. </p>
<p>The new school district was one under investigation by SAT for too many accommodations, and so son was "reviewed." With the exact same paperwork, all his accommodations were taken away, including the computer, which was essential as his handwriting was laborious and could not be understood. They demanded more data and we spent $3K on a neuropsych and got new and better data --exactly what they asked for. He had the lowest score possible on Rey diagram.</p>
<p>We had documentation --endless amounts-- from top professionals; we had the support of the school district. We jumped through every hoop requested way more than a year in advance of the test. What was rubber stamped in the first school district was rejected in the second, utterly. </p>
<p>I was aware this could happen when we moved because I had been hearing horror stories from others. </p>
<p>You need to be in the right school district --that is a lot of it. If your district has been targeted for any reason, you face impossible levels of scrutiny. Kids with high IQs in such districts are out of luck, no matter how much documentation they show.</p>
<p>Has anyone heard CB tell them that the child can compensate for the LD with their IQ? I have. outrageous.</p>
<p>I agree that it matters if the school your child attends is under scrutiny. We are fortunate that the school our kid attends has very few kids with accommodations. I'm so sorry that your child was denied the accommodations that had been previously approved for years, especially after all the work you, your son & your experts did. It does sound extremely unfair that they were unwiling to work with you just because the 2nd school is under scrutiny.
It's also crazy to say that IQ compensates for LD, it makes no sense. So sorry to read about this.<br>
I didn't even know you had to reapply for accommodations when you switched school districts--I thought the accommodations followed the child until the child graduated from HS.
Little off subject but I didn't even know that Brown had a LD Dean--that's great to know. It's a school my son is fascinated by, but we aren't sure how he'll adapt to the colder weather (if he gets in).</p>
<p>It is a dean of dss, disability services --sorry for wrong phrase, but I think all schools have them. Brown appears to be pretty good in the compassion and understanding department, but I am not sure what it would be like for a student who needed actual <strong>active</strong> help. ie, getting extra time on a test is not the same as obtaining aggressive intervention and support. </p>
<p>I know, for instance, some people at other schools need note-takers; some colleges supply these for students. I have never heard of a note-taker at Brown, but perhaps someone else has. Son does not know anyone at Brown who uses these kinds of things. Perhaps he is just unaware. I have never heard of a Brown student getting help in basic math or writing. At Brown, the lowest level math class appears to be calculus --unlike some colleges where students can even take algebra or get math tutoring. I have never heard of this at Brown, and son does not know any students who need this kind of help. So ...it all depends on the need. If all you need is extra time, it appears that Brown has more largesse than a high school or the CB. But just as a comparison, one time I was up at Brown and in the hotel met a parent whose son went to Roger Williams. Her son was literally getting remediation and extensive, intensive support in the basics --you can't go to Brown for that, but if you want to do research with a prof, it's great.</p>
<p>my daughters school offers extended time- notetakers if you need them- she even has an ADD coach who meets with her every week or as needed.
Lowest level math calculus as they don't have remedial classes, but these are some of the supports that they offer
*Reed College's approach to providing services for students with disabilities is highly individualized. Upon receipt of a request for services and the appropriate documentation, student services works with you to provide or establish the most suitable and reasonable accommodations or services given the context of a particular class, professor's pedagogy, or area of campus. Typical services have included: </p>
<ul>
<li> arrangements for priority seating, interpreters, taped class materials, readers, or notetakers; </li>
<li> access to adaptive equipment and auxiliary aids; </li>
<li> specialized tutoring, organizational mentoring, and access to the writing, math, and science centers; </li>
<li> referral for testing and diagnosis; </li>
<li> ongoing and timely communication with faculty members about academic adjustments or alternative ways of fulfilling course requirements; </li>
<li> academic support and personal counseling; </li>
<li> community resource referral and information; </li>
<li> coordination with student's referring professional disability specialist; </li>
<li> advocacy and adjustments for a barrier-free environment when reasonable.
*</li>
</ul>
<p>Actually, he only needs understanding & time to turn in work when he can't be in class because he misses class due to illness. He's able to keep up on his own via self-studying now in all 5 of his current AP classes. He's never had notetakers or any other special accommodations & has no need of remediation--taking AP Calculus AB now. He's never sought or received additional time for testing. Still, it's good to know that the dean was more understanding of your child than CB was.
Anyway, as I said, hard to know how the colder weather will play out in his ultimate college decision & which colleges will offer him a spot. Will find out in a few weeks like everyone else, I expect.</p>
<p>I'm sure the last 2 posts by cloverdale & EK are helpful for those who are not aware of the extent of college support once the student has arrived. However, aren't we getting OT? Kind of ironic to me, as at least one other has also pointed out, that colleges may be more responsive to LD'ers' documented needs than the high schools are. The student may never get to that college without SAT accommodation, which is the Big Issue here. I think the listed details that EK has provided should be available in the h.schools -- which btw might help to support the document-mania & history "proof" that CB is afflicted with.</p>
<p>When neither the student's high school nor the CB is responsive to LD requirements, student & family may be out of luck. And CB acts like families have 6-8 years to make their case; they have an amazingly drawn out timeline versus the short window of opportunity to (1) actually have a high school history, (2) apply for accommodation, (3) register & take the SAT's (4) apply to college & explain why you have a score of 400 when your GPA is 3.8 & you outdo your non-LD classmates as a regular habit.</p>
<p>I feel as if we're back in the '60's during early Civil Rights days, when minorities were accused of being impatient & told to wait for change.</p>
<p>Time waits for no one.</p>
<p>Think about it: The current LD h.school population could hardly be more star-crossed. They're arriving on the college admissions scene during the most competitive admissions years in US history to date, hoping to even get a read on their apps by overwhelmed committees who have abundant non-LD'ers from which to choose. The way the admissions process goes, they have an equal chance at an initial read only at the SAT-optional schools, which in the scheme of things is a narrow list & includes a small percentage of selective, secular schools.</p>
<p>Sorry to sound so pessimistic this morning. It's just that as a teacher my heart bleeds for all of them & their unrecognized potential.</p>
<p>Epiphany, To respond: I think the college board has a problem with our high-IQ, suburban, gifted kids --what are we complaining about, they wonder. My older son DID need accommodation to facilitate his learning in the best way despite his IQ at the ceiling of the test. His high school had no sympathy whatsoever for a boy who "could use his intelligence to compensate and do better than others without the LD." That same high school provided enormous accommodation for my second son, as his needs were much greater. But the college board, in its wisdom, decided that he too deserved nothing, not even a computer for the essay part of his SAT to compensate his extensively documented dysgraphia. I felt that if his IQ had been in the 25th percentile instead of the 99.9 percentile they would have been more generous. It is as if they are giving out nuggets of gold, and are very stingy with who gets a piece. There is only so much to go around --these kids are at the bottom of the list, they are viewed as already too-privileged. These kinds of kids are caught between a rock and a hard place. It IS discrimination and it is illegal, but CB appears to be getting away with it.</p>
<p>Yes, Epiphany, you are right, but the only person that appears to have had success battling the CB was Kirmum, who had a letter on legal letterhead written to the CB when they were being "difficulty."
You are also correct that there is not that long of a window--the student is supposed to have been at the school where they're applying for accommodations at least 4 months & the accommodations only last however long the child remains at that school. College aps are challenging enough for kids with no LD issues, I'm sure it must be doubly so for kids with LD to meet the deadlines & navigate through the forest everyone else has to deal with, explaining without whining the challenges & adversity that has been overcome. In addition, they have to hope their aps aren't tossed out-of-hand for not meeting some statistical cut-off imposed by some schools.
There are so many that the current college ap process & testing "weeds out" rather than recognizing. It is unfortunately a rather "linear" process when all is said & done. There are so many that the current process does not work well for, including folks with limited stamina that can't carry a full-courseload due to health or other reasons.
Even "supportive" schools only go so far in working with kids & families who don't easily "fit" the "typical student" profile. OK, sorry to be digressing & wish I had answers; would love to read any answers any have come up with that have worked.</p>
<p>Again, if (since) the CB is non-responsive, it's time to engage in an information campaign to the college administrations. If the colleges/U's are unable or unwilling to encourage more forceful compliance out of CB, then the operative CB philosophy should be adopted by the colleges: These Ld'ers have proven that they can compensate; therefore, you need a big LD check box top of app. (not dissimilar to FA checkbox). That checkbox means that a low SAT score is not grounds for dismissing an app in the initial round. (As a "need-blind" college is not supposed to dismiss an app for a FA reason, when it comes to the admission bar alone.)</p>
<p>CB, and the colleges, cannot have it both ways. </p>
<p>As with the guys who play basketball in wheelchairs, what kind of a student (or b-ball player) competes in the game against all odds? A damned determined one, that's who, lacking in excuses & self-pity: a student College X should want & value, big time.</p>
<p>we have to acknowledge that LD students are more expensive for the colleges.
However- my daughters college- knew about her LDs, saw that she had accomodations in testing- saw that despite this she was still on the low end of their test scores, and offered her admission and lots of grants anyway.
While I won't go as far as to say they haven't made any mistakes regarding her accomodations, they have offered a lot and for the same price as other students. I imagine that they recognize the determination that students with differences have to have and figure that that perserverance will serve them well in college</p>