<p>i don't think it's that big of a deal. i mean, you have to start writing essays somewhere, sometime, right? and if colleges consider the essay scores "subjective", how the heck do they consider personal statement essays or even your kid's AP Lang Comp exam? would not the AP graders also be "subjective"? essay is one of the things that can seem unclear in terms of quality, but really, can you not tell the difference between a 2 essay and a 12 essay?</p>
<p>I admit that I have not read every single word of every post to this thread, but has anyone responded to the OP's contention that College Board has a financial interest in the test prep industry? They do sell test prep books, but I am not aware that they offer classes, tutoring, etc. like Kaplan, etc. I'm not sure I would characterize selling "10 Real SATs" as having a major interest in the test prep industry.</p>
<p>Same happened with my son's ACT. He got a pefect score on critical reading but essay was given an "8." He is an award-winning writer who won our city's first place for fiction, has spent every summer doing University-level writing for college credit at schools like NYU and the Iowa writer's workshop and Sarah Lawrence, always getting As, AND the GC pulled his SAT essay and told us it was college level. </p>
<p>Take my word for it too --he is a highly sophisticated writer with a perfect ear for grammer, whose papers in college courses and in-class college essays have never gotten less than A. We are a family of professional wriers, and have taught him about writing, intensively, on our own, since he was very young.</p>
<p>We sent his teacher-graded papers and in-class college tests with every application to counteract any damage the "8" might do. I only hope they pulled his essay to read it --I am sure it was as the GC said.</p>
<p>It is this kind of situation that has caused the colleges to reject those scorings as invalid and to discount the SAT or ACT essay.</p>
<p>Why couldn't they just have the testees do their essays and do NOT grade them, just send them on with the scores from the multiple choice portions? Any school that wants to see what a kid can do in a few minutes with a novel prompt can do so and judge it for itself. There is no more burdensome than reading the essays many already require.</p>
<p>This approach is the one used by the LSAT, if I'm not mistaken.</p>
<p>Someone on a different thread mentioned a study that showed a .90 correlation between length and score on the SAT essay. That is sad -- you end up rewarding those who can BS or who can physically write quickly. I'm glad my two didn't have to take this. They both needed years of occupational therapy and write slowly ... but not slowly enough to still qualify for accommodations. Fortunately, they can use a computer for the GRE.</p>
<p>I've read that the SAT actually had a writing test years ago. But it was dropped after a few years. They found that readers disagreed with one another on the scoring. Further, they found that the results of the regular, multiple choice portion correlated better with how high school teachers had viewed the writing of the students. I don't know if any similar study is being performed this time around.</p>
<p>Madourd:</p>
<p>My son, who is no writing genius in my opinion (sorry), got 12/12s on his essays (he took SAT twice). According to him the "rules" are simple. </p>
<p>Write a LONG essay. Include THREE references. (He used books which he had lined up the day before and just made them work. On one of the essays he used some historical events). PRINT if you have bad handwriting. Use the first paragraph as an INTRO. Use the last paragraph as a SUMMARY (knocks out two paragraphs right there). </p>
<p>I read his essays and was not bowled over by them...But they did follow his rules.</p>
<p>The greatest thing I have against the SAT writing was that it seemes rather biased. Now I am no Shakespeare but I do view myself as a rather decent writer. Two of my friends and I (I really don't mean to brag but we are definitely the brightest three kids in our class) all did the SAT and we all recieved rather low marks (I got an 8) and it enraged us. We are all boys and we are have pretty poor handwriting (even for boys). A girl in my class who actually is pretty well know for being rather poor in english but who has one of the best handwriting I've ever seen also did the exam and scored a perfect twelve. Was her essay better than ours? No but quite simply it looked rather long and very neat and prefessional. I actually tried to improve my handwriting before the exam but there's nly so much you can do and my handwriting did improve (my teacher now calls it Legible).</p>
<p>Weenie Post #65-</p>
<p>This is EXACTLY what mine son did to also receive his high score. He said there were "rules" and if followed a high score would ensue. He said it didn't matter, the style or content, just include the things graders were looking for.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>The essay portion of the new SAT is only 1/3 of the total score on the writing portion (I believe that is the correct amount). The remaining 2/3 are the other writing sections. It's one sample of writing...one. Colleges need to look at it as that. At this point, I do not think there is one college that is using the SAT writing subtest as their sole admission criteria. In fact, many schools are continuing not to use the writing scores at all (except the UC's of course...but that's another thread). This year's entering freshmen are the first to even DO that essay. There is no statistical data to support the scores and their reliability, predictability, and projective ability. Unless there is a change recently, there were not even %ile scores for the writing. Colleges do NOT know what these scores mean yet...they simply do not. They KNOW what an 800 on the math or verbal sections can mean...they have had those for years. AND keep in mind that I don't know if the schools are using the prompt score alone at all...it is only a PART of the writing section score. Until (if) there are norms for the scores on the prompts, those prompts alone cannot be used with any reliability.</p>
<p>katwkittens:
Makes you wonder if they even READ the essays. Perhaps they just skim them, looking for the basics and then grade them. Or maybe after you've read so many it becomes impossible to really process them. I don't know.</p>
<p>superwizard:
I agree with you that the potential for bias is strong. On the other hand, I saw my son's essays (on line) and, really, they looked like a first grader printed them. However, I will say I didn't see any misspelled words or punctuation errors. (I don't even know if that matters.)</p>
<p>Misspelled words and punctuation errors only matter if they affect the meaning conveyed. My understanding is that the prompts are scored using a rubric. They are holistically viewed, meaning that the content and meaning are what matters...flow of writing, use of details, sound beginning and conclusion, supporting information, writing ON topic. I thought two readers (supposedly) read each prompt and scored them...if the scores from the two readers deviate too much, then supposedly a third reader would be called in. Handwriting does not count unless it is not possible to read the passage (how do you score something you cannot read??), nor do misspellings or grammar errors that do not affect meaning. Of course, grammar errors can also affect the flow of the piece. I could be wrong about the scoring...but I know someone who is a reader and that is what she told me.</p>
<p>Even when the writing of students is evaluated individually the tests are severely flawed-- too much emphasis on the number of long words, punctuation-- not nearly enough on the cohesive organization of ideas, etc. So, the concept of doing a writing evaluation on thousands of students at a time and getting anything of value from the information is essentially ludicrous. Group testing is only 'useful' for assessment of convergent answers- a single best response. Of course, they have to use a formula...and it is only a matter of time before everyone realizes this.</p>
<p>The colleges that ask for a graded piece of work might actually get to see the quality of a student's writing, and the expectations for that writing. Otherwise, this is just another hurdle to jump.</p>
<p>I think the SAT I writing section is a "wake-up call" for our nation's schools. Many systems have not emphasized grammar and writing skills for years (like they used to when many of us were in school). </p>
<p>My two daughters actually love the addition of the writing section because they have had a public school education that has heavily emphasized grammar and writing since about the 4th grade. Our state requires standardized writing tests for all 4th, 7th, and 10th graders, so their teachers have had valuable training in how to teach the skills needed for success with writing. The younger one's high school English teacher held frequent timed essay tests in order to prepare her students for the SAT writing. She had attended workshops to learn exactly what the graders were looking for. </p>
<p>My younger D took the SAT writing in the fall of 2005 and claimed that the MC section was super easy for anyone who has had a decent background in grammar/writing. She scored a 10 on the essay and ended up with a 760 overall. Her older sister took the SAT II writing a couple of years ago, also proclaiming its easiness. She scored 800 overall. I don't recall her essay score, but it was not a perfect 12. I don't think she missed a single MC question though.</p>
<p>My husband, who works with many professional engineers, has long noted the despicable writing skills of many of his co-workers. Some of them cannot even write a decent paragraph. It's time for America to go back to the basics of grammar and writing instruction. These skills are extremely important in any profession.</p>
<p>Diane,</p>
<p>I agree with you (even though my son got a 12 on the essay). Judging writing is very subjective. My son's English teacher thinks he's the second coming, the SAT people gave him a 12, yet he's never won for his essays at our state JCL convention (I was curious, so last year I was one of the graders and saw just how ridiculously subjective the process is). Why I like the idea of the essay, and making it available to the colleges, is to take away the edge for people who use counselors or tutors to "tweak" their essays. This way, colleges can see what students really write like -- not what they are able to submit as their writing. When my son applied to private secondary schools, I was happy to see some ask the applicants to sit down and write a five or ten minute essay -- just to see who had really written their application and who had mommy or daddy do it for them.</p>
<p>The colleges have discounted these tests because the actual essays do not correlate well with the allocated scores, by the colleges own standards and assessments. If we need a wake up call, I doubt this is it. The ability to rotely follow rules can get one a high score on this test but has very little to do with writing ability, especially the sort of higher-level writing ability and cognitive talent the colleges care about.</p>
<p>THAT is why the essays are being looked at but the scores are being discarded.</p>
<p>"I admit that I have not read every single word of every post to this thread, but has anyone responded to the OP's contention that College Board has a financial interest in the test prep industry?"</p>
<p>Dad, the comment was so ludicrous that it did not warrant a reply. :)</p>
<p>As far as the grading of the essays, there is no need to speculate. The "rules" of grading have been posted several times on CC. FWIW, one should not expect TCB/ETS to work in a dark vacuum, and not react to pointed commentaries regardinng its formulaic approach. However, we need to remember that the SAT is a STANDARDIZED test and that the grading has to be as consistent as humanly possible. That is why there is such a chasm between the opinions of high school teachers -and college teachers- and what TCB/ETS consider a strong or competent essay. Obviously, when it comes to admission essays, why anyone would pay much attention to a HS English teacher remains puzzling. I would gladly exchange all their opinion for a competent and consistent teaching of basic grammar and punctuation rules.</p>
<p>My take? A huge number of high school English teachers would barely pass a remedial college course in English, and would earn mediocre scores on the SAT without access to the answer keys.</p>
<p>PS While there is a consensus on how to earn to a high score, I do not think that the scores are as subjective as intimated here. Low scoring essays are typically flawed; one such flaws is not being responsive to the prompts or using a wrong approach. Lastly, there is no correlation between the SAT essay and the admission essays. So, all the talks that having access to the 25 minutes essay could shed somel lights on the use of editors is simply bogus. Colleges know that great writing is not needed, but great editing.</p>