Say No to Full Ride Scholarship

Graduate School
1

<p>I am a mechanical engineering student at U-Mich Dearborn, I was applying for a part time Masters program at U-Mich AnnArbor and I asked my professor for a recommendation letter.. and she surprised me with the following:</p>

<p>She offered me a full ride scholarship at Dearborn, with an interesting thesis, research work under her supervision and of course a stipend (and NO TA/GA work ) It should take two years, yet of course I cannot be working during that time.</p>

<p>This was not my plan at all: I wanted to start working straight out of college, get a masters part time at UM (no thesis option). At AnnArbor (i.e. THE univ of Michigan = top 10) tuition is high with no prospect for serious financial aid if i didn't get a thesis option. From a financial standpoint i get $30k saved... but i waive getting two years of practical experience and the chance to graduate from a top school.... Although it seems interesting I might discard the Full Ride Option and stick to my original plan (a prime reason is that it was MY ORIGINAL PLAN)... what do you think?</p>

2

<p>To be quite honest, I would take the assistantship in a heartbeat. Saving $30,000 in student loans - plus interest - is huge.</p>

3

<p>If you think she’s reasonable, you can tell her exactly what you just told us. Hopefully she’ll be understanding and write you a letter of recommendation anyway.</p>

<p>Also, you’re not actually saving $30k. If you got a job, you’d likely be making about $60k a year. Do that for two years, and you’ll have $120k. Take away tuition and you’re left with $90k. If you stick with her, you’ll maybe make $25k a year, but not have tuition payments, so you’ll wind up being paid $50k.</p>

<p>Keep in mind you can defer subsidized student loans until you finish with any part-time MS programs, so you won’t have to pay interest on them until you’re done.</p>

<p>It might be difficult to find a job within commuting distance of Ann Arbor that’s in a field you’re interested in and provides time to do your MS. Taking one or two graduate engineering classes the same time as working a full time job can be a pretty big drain.</p>

4

<p>Income of 60k each year is more like 40k after taxes. If you put 10% away for retirement (and you should put away more than that), you are down to 34k. </p>

<p>OP - Life is mostly about how well you handle “Plan B”. Sticking with an “original plan” solely because it was the “original plan” is not always your best choice. Heck, half the time it isn’t even still a viable option!</p>

5

<p>You still have those same taxes and retirement planning when you’re living on a stipend (though depending on the stipend and where you’re living, retirement planning may or may not be possible).</p>

6

<p>Making $60k a year in one’s first year out of college? Assuming one can even find a job in this economy, color me skeptical that starting pay will be that high.</p>

7

<p>Seems fairly reasonable given the experiences of the friends I had in college and the post-graduation survey results coming out of my school (keep in mind he’s in engineering, not English Lit).</p>

<p>Anyway, your best bet would probably be to try looking for jobs now, apply to grad school (both your current one and an Ann Arbor) and see if the decision gets made for you along the way.</p>

8

<p>

I was making $58k in my first year, and that was more than 4 years ago. While salaries increases have not been great, I do not think $60k is at all unreasonable for an engineer (depending on field and specialty, of course).</p>

9

<p>More than four years ago, the economy was booming and unemployment was near all-time lows.</p>

<p>27michigan, you should at least apply for that fellowship and give yourself the option. You likely won’t have to decide to take or reject it until the April 15 Council of Graduate Schools deadline. If you can find a good-paying position and would rather pay for school yourself, great. But if you can’t, you’ll have a safety net.</p>

10

<p>To be blunt - you’d have to be a fool to pass up a free ride. Why pay for what they’ll give you for free? Do you think you’d really want to work as a full time grad student? It’s not as easy as you think.</p>

11

<p>My friend just got an offer for 70k a few weeks ago, and he’s not even one of those top students employers fight over. It depends on the major, the school, and the company, but it’s not impossible.</p>

12

<p>WOW so many replies in this little time…
OK, first the professor gave me a recommendation letter (and she said it was a good one) she actually did that before offering me the scholarship opportunity</p>

<p>NOW, most of you mentioned finances, and i actually added the numbers and it is clear that getting a real job means an increased cash flow which is more than enough to offset tuition (even for a 30K degree) taxes cannot account to more than 15% of total income (remember Taxable Income = Income - Exemption - Deduction , if income=60K, then TI<45k so tax is around 11k annually Fed+state) so 49 > 15(tuition per year- no tax) + 25 (stipend)
PS: i’m living in the metro-detroit, i don’t know what you hear about us, but here unemployment is 14% (compared to US 9.8%) and everything is cheap (you can buy a house in detroit for under 5000 literally, a decent single family in an average suburb is 50-60k) however entry level engineering pays between 50 and 60k (depends where you work, Ford and GM will pay 60k, right out of college, i know from a friend who’s started working there)</p>

<p>Actually i don’t know if I am grad-material. I never expected to go to grad school full time and research position… and quite frankly i don’t really look forward to such an experience, here see for yourself: [YouTube</a> - The Simpsons - Comments about PhDs and Grad Students. [HQ]](<a href=“- YouTube”>- YouTube)
I want Grad school for two things:

  1. get more specific/technical knowledge about my career work - type of knowledge you don’t learn in undergrad
  2. improve my performance, my marketability, and definitely my salary
    and so I always imagined myself going to grad school part-time and non-research (some call it terminal masters)</p>

<p>as for annarbor i want to go there badly, and they are one of the few top schools that will allow you to go part-time with no thesis (MIT and Stanford for example won’t) and they are in the top 10 univ in the country… the whole experience and networking and prestige of UM degree partially justifies the tuition</p>

<p>Life is all about choices, and having more of them is better (though it’ll give you a headache): I have a 3.94GPA (GRE: 800M 630V) certified EIT, have some research projects, an internship experience, and a few extra-curic. involvement so i will be admitted to UM (might even get some money if i am lucky), and i guess i will get a decent job: as such after two years i will have a masters from a top univ and 2yrs of work experience: a solid foundation for the next step of my professional life…something that is worth more that just research… (just compare the 2 scenarios after 2 yrs) i’ll tell my prof after the weekend.</p>

<p>feel free to post any comments, if not for me, for someone who might stumble through this thread after some months
Finally,
Thank you all, for taking some time to review my question, and posting you sincere opinions…
Wish you all the best with what you do</p>

13

<p>I think the origins of those Simpsons jokes are that a lot of the writers on that show have been pretty highly educated, so they’re making fun of themselves a bit. (Not to say a good bit of it isn’t true, haha.)</p>

<p>If you don’t see yourself enjoying grad school going full time, then it’s probably not something you’d excel at. Grad school is really more of a marathon than a sprint, so you’ve gotta be able to keep your motivation up for a long period of time to finish. And, heck, if you decide in the future you want a PhD (or MS), it’s always something you could leave work and go back for. About half the people I know here in grad school took a year or two off before they decided grad school was the right decision for them.</p>

14

<p>“taxes cannot account to more than 15% of total income”</p>

<p>Um, no. They usually account for a lot more than 15%. You have to include:
Federal Income Tax
State and Local Income Tax (where those exist)
Social Security Tax
Medicare Tax</p>

<p>Social Security alone is 7.6%.</p>

<p>But if the truth is that you really don’t see yourself in grad school just yet, it is OK to turn down the offer and get a job instead. Grad school can wait.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>IMO

  1. Grad school with thesis, is using undergrad fundamentals and ability to use independent search and experimentation to solve a particular problem.
  2. If you can do #1, then you Did #2.</p>

<p>The benefits of a thesis program is that you can take a topic/assignment/project and take it to a conclusion. And do it in a less structured environment than a job; While knowing the parameters and expectations that is often lacking in a job. An other benefit is that you will be exposed to more people, read networking, who work and have exposure to different stuff.</p>

<p>If you take this opportunity, you will have the luxury to screw it up and to recover without damage to your reputation. </p>

<p>When you successfully complete the thesis, you are now a proven product vs a new BS graduate.l</p>

16

<p>* taxes cannot account to more than 15% of total income (remember Taxable Income = Income - Exemption - Deduction*</p>

<p>Where are you getting this from? I made about half $60K last year and my taxes were about 22% of my income. Your taxes certainly can amount to more than 15% of your income depending on your state, and probably will.</p>

<p>Whether or not this offer sounds good is up to you. Personally if I were in engineering, I’d work for a few years first and see if my employer would pay for a top MS program - that’s the best of both worlds. If not, at least you have time to sack a little money away before you go.</p>

17

<p>Similar surprise for our S.
He just finished a year of internships and a year out of MS-MechEng.
Beginning 2009 was real tough job market. He asked his undergrad advisor/employer (Son was student assistant at 10hr/wk for credit) for a LOR.</p>

<p>Prof thought about it a bit and said, ‘why give away experience that she [prof] developed and trained. DS had worked for prof for 3 years as undergrad and could step into a position immediately, without indoctrination, training, or supervision.’ Prof said, 'Work for me for a couple of years, at my new university. Besides, you’ll will be close to your parents and you’ll be able to do other university stuff that you wouldn’t be able to do if you had an industry job. </p>

<p>sidenote: DS had a fullride for MS. Lived near school, inexpensively. Didn’t need a car. Completed thesis in 15 continuous months and pocketed the difference. A fullride for a MS is rare. </p>

<p>Congratulations.</p>

18

<p>@Julliet:
Correct me if im wrong:
Total Income = 40 000
Standard Deduction (say you don’t itemize) = 5700
Exemption (one, which is yourself) = 3650
Taxable Income = 30650
Tax (see tax tables) = 4179
State / Local Tax (@5%) = 2000
HENCE:
total tax paid = 6179 which is 15.4% of total income</p>

19

<p>@27michigan - don’t forget that there are other taxes taken out as well, like social security, and that many areas have >5% state+local taxes. Also consider that most engineers are making well in excess of $40k and are often being taxed at a higher rate than you are showing.</p>

20

<p>Hello, it’s me the OP again.
I want to update whoever is reading this post on what happened in the later months.
In short I am glad I didn’t accept the offer and went on to work:</p>

<p>I graduated last week, and started working the next day after the commencement (yes i have no life). The great thing is that, I get tuition reimbursement at work, enough to pay for my masters! So again, talking in numbers: I am making 3x the money a research MS student would make, I am gaining invaluable experience, and of course I have the option to pursue an MS fully paid, on my own pace, and not focused on one single topic (heck not even in one single school)!!</p>

<p>Funny thing though, after I told my prof no in January, she contacted me later on last month (when I had a job offer) and i told her that my answer didn’t change. so apparently this full ride thing is not a very exclusive deal!</p>

<p>Anyhow, i am glad this is how things turned out to be! unless you really really really want to research, full time grad studies cannot be justified over real life work experience!</p>