Saying 'no' to high debt/ Appealing

<p>Son's top school choice has our EFC as $13,000. With the uncovered amount of Cost of Attendance (@$15,000) plus small loans, debt could amount to 80 or 90 thousand dollars after 4 years. Son is not even considering this scenario, and I agree (obviously?).</p>

<p>We are currently low-income, qualify for free/reduced price lunch, I am a dislocated worker - I thought the EFC would be zero this year. </p>

<p>Does the individual school come up with the EFC or is it provided by FAFSA?
Do they take into account assets, such as owning a house?
Do they take into account high cost of living in home city?</p>

<p>I have a phone appt. coming up, so if anyone has helpful suggestions to make the most of it, I'd appreciate it.</p>

<p>Problem at this time, of course, is decisions are due by Saturday. So we will likely be putting down a deposit, waiting on an appeal decision, and understanding that if something does not change, he may decide to put this expense off until circumstances change or he finds a different way to do it. </p>

<p>(Second choice school offers a better package, but fit not as good. Son is currently in local community college, but ready to move on.)</p>

<p>When you filed FAFSA, you should have gotten a SAR with your EFC on it. Does it match what the college says is your EFC? Also talk to the financial aid office and let them know you are a dislocated worker. The fin aid office can adjust the EFC accordingly because your current situation might not be fully reflected in the 2010 FAFSA. </p>

<p>As to how an individual school computes need or what it expects the family to contribute, it can differ widely. Is this school a FAFSA only school, or did you have to complete another application or PROFILE for financial aid. FAFSA does not take into account primary homes as assets so the college won’t know anything about that unless you told them on some other form, not FAFSA. As for cost of living, sorry, but nope, no go. It doesn’t matter one whit. </p>

<p>You know, I think I remember reading some prior posts of yours regarding schools. If I remember correctly, you were looking at LACs and they were all PROFILE schools. If the school in mind is a PROFILE or extra info school, their need figure will not necessarly match FAFSA’s EFC. But they can still adjust the FAFSA figure under certain circumstances such as dislocated worker and your son might be eligible to other federal funds if that is the case. Even more so that you should read the thread regarding Occidental’s aid appeals. </p>

<p>Hopefully, you’ll get some good news. Take a look at the thread on this forum on how one college looks at financial aid appeals. Might give you some ideas as to what to discuss with the financial aid officer at the school. It all depends on the college and funds available as to how much leeway these officers have. But definitely let them know that you are a dislocated worker and the free lunch eligiblity. Yes, they can change your FAFSA numbers accordingly on some things and that is not money that the college has to pay if your son becomes PELL eligible.</p>

<p>Ah, yes, the SAR email says “00000.” Thanks for this informative answer.</p>

<p>Hana, your son should be getting the max Pell, about $5K and the full Staffords, $5500 if he is applying as a freshman, more if he is an upperclassman. Unfortunately, that is all that is guaranteed by the FAFSA number. He is also eligible for subsidized Perkins loans and SEOG, but only if the school has those funds and they tend to be limited and exhausted early in the process. The rest of the money is from the school’s own coffers and they can distribute it any way they want. </p>

<p>Basically, you are looking for more grant money from the school. Don’t know if they have it or will give it. That’s the hardest to get . I always say to try for an appeal and ask if you can work with the fin aid officer in the determination, but unfortunately this does not usually work out in a lot more money, if any. If this is indeed the first choice, then stay fast, but look for other alternatives. Is the more affordable 2nd choice really that bad? I seem to remember that the schools you were mentioning were all pretty good academically, and your son could excell at any of them, and they are all great schools. (Don’t remember the schools themselves).</p>

<p>Yep, he did get the $5550 PELL, a $1500 SEOG, and a $3500 Stafford. (One unsub. loan, a Stafford? Not crazy about the unsubsidized loans.) </p>

<p>The more affordable choice is NOT that bad (some things about it are better), but there’s that fit issue! I feel like it’s quite important with this guy, like he needs a like-minded student body to support his sense of optimism. </p>

<p>But, it is up to him which direction to pursue. He could choose the 2nd choice, wait for 1st choice and try to think of ways to make it work, and also see if either of his waitlist schools come through & what the FA might be (I know, unlikely - but possible.) </p>

<p>If I become employed, the 1st choice would probably be fine (unless our FA diminished tremendously the next year?!), and I feel so bad about being in this position for him.</p>

<p>I know. I wish I could just pay for any school my kids want without strain. It does hurt as a parent to have to wrangle through this. Call the financial aid office and see if the school has any grant money left. The federal coffer is dry for you. Your “EFC” as calculated by the school is what governs. You may want to ask how they got those numbers. There could be an error or misunderstanding there. Good luck.</p>

<p>It sounds like this school doesn’t meet need, so that may be a problem. </p>

<p>What are his more affordable choices?</p>

<p>What is his likely major?</p>

<p>Is this a CSS Profile school?</p>

<p>Which school is this?</p>

<p>*The more affordable choice is NOT that bad (some things about it are better), but there’s that fit issue! I feel like it’s quite important with this guy, like he needs a like-minded student body to support his sense of optimism. *</p>

<p>Perfect fit comes at a price. If you can’t pay the price, then it’s often a no-go. It’s like buying “off the rack” vs having something custom made.</p>

<p>Frankly, I really doubt that this #1 choice is filled with “like minded” souls unless this school is completely lacking in diversity.</p>

<p>Doesn’t really matter. I think OP and son have gone through a thorough analysis and know what school is definitely first choice. Clearly it is a PROFILE or other methodology school as the school is using a different EFC than the FAFSA results are for aid. It’s just one of those situations where the aid offered is not enough. I hope the appeal works out.</p>

<p>The school does say that it is committed to meeting full need.</p>

<p>The cultural/intellectual fit is better. And by “cultural,” I do not mean ethnic heritage or region. I just mean the “vibe,” the feeling of the community, and what I think will inspire my son.</p>

<p>But, yeah, he could choose the other school. It will be a calculation of what he hopes to and thinks he could get out of it, and whether it is worth the debt (which is an issue with both schools, just not as intensively with #2), or not. :)</p>

<p>I think you are under the misapprehension that a 0 FAFSA EFC means you pay 0. This is rarely the case. The FAFSA EFC just determines your eligibility for federal aid, which is very limited. With a 0 EFC you are eligible the maximum Pell ($5550). That is it for federal grant money and is about all you are guaranteed. Other federal aid is very limited. You have been awarded the maximum sub Stafford for a freshman ($3500). The remaining Stafford would have to be unsub as only up to $3500 can be subsidized. Depending on the school’s policies you may be eligible for campus based federal aid such as SEOG, WS or Perkins loans. However they have extremely limited funding and schools rarely have sufficient for all 0 EFC students.</p>

<p>Does the school promise to meet full need? Any other aid would come from the school if they offer institutional aid. many schools do not offer any institutional aid at all. Very few promise to meet full need, and even fewer promise to meet full need without loans (mostly the most competitive schools like the IVYs). Those that do promise to meet full need generally require CSS as well as FAFSA and require much more financial data which they take into account when determining eligibility for their own funds.</p>

<p>No, I definitely don’t expect to pay nothing. It’s just that $15,000 a year, plus $6000 or so of loans, adds up fast over four years.</p>

<p>As you see in my post above, the school is “committed” to meeting full need. For whatever reason, they seem to have determined that we can pay more than we can. We could if we sell the house ;)</p>

<p>The @ $15,000 uncovered portion of the COA is not offered in the form of loans to parents, it is just not there. Is this typical?</p>

<p>There is some work/study too, by the way.</p>

<p>Hanaviolet, the school has defined your need and met it as it has defined it. It’s up to you as to how you come up with the money. You should talk to the fin aid rep and let him know that you are currently unemployed and that when you are employed, you might be able to pay what they feel you can. However, if the home equity is indeed included as part of your assets and that is what is driving up the institutional EFC, this is going to be an ongoing problem with the school. And, yes, they do expect you to sell the house or borrow against it for the amount they assess you for. Or take out PLUS for the $15K. If denied, your son will get an additonal $4K in Stafford loans, still leaving you hanging for the $11k left to pay. You can defer payment of the PLUS but at a hefty price in interest.</p>

<p>Some of these schools that guarantee 100% of need count the fillings in your teeth in terms of assets. Value of cars, 401K monies, everything. Yes, and certainly value of your house, never mind if you cannot sell it except at a fire sale, they want those fire sale proceeds. You might want to revist what you have put down as the value of your home and see if that is even a realistic market value. My neighbor has had her house on the market for 6 months now and hasn’t gotten a nibble. Certainly not the market value that she and the realtor placed on it. </p>

<p>As for your son, the $6K or so in student loans is typical. Is he a transfer student? Stafford max is $5500, combined unsub and sub for freshman, $6500 for sophomores. It goes up each year. Bear in mind that most schools expect your son to assume more and more of the cost each year and that the cost goes up as well. </p>

<p>Does your son have any savings for college? Can he get a job starting right now and start putting some money away? Weekends and after school and maybe two, three jobs in the summer including tutoring, music lessons, bike lessons, pet sitting, swim lessons, baby sitting, house sitting, bus boy, day job. That’s what all of mine have done and they do make a lot of money during the summers. The one heading off to college and his cousin worked a good part of junior and senior year. My son is a life guard at the rec center 10 hours a week and his cousin works 15 hours at least at a nursing home. Both have accumulated nice nest eggs for college and will continue doing so over the summer. My kids have also worked 15 hours a week at college to pay for their share of the expenses.</p>

<p>My college junior picked a school that was over the cost of what we would pay, so he had to come up with the money. He figured he had Stafford loans, his savings, and whatever he could earn working. He also scrimped so that he “beat” the COA figure the college had for him. This year he’s done the same. As a sophomore, he did hit the COA figure because he got a single room and did not get anything to replace an outside one year only scholarship and because college costs went up. He worked extra hours and got a very high paying position second semester, however, and won a research grant at the end of that year, that made this year’s costs below COA for him. He 's in an apartment and his food bill has been halved though the cost for the apt exceeds the dorm rooms. Next year he’ll be living off campus and his room costs will be half of what they are this year. </p>

<p>You’ll also save money not having your son at home. The hot water bill, electric bill (unplug applicances and other electronics he tends to use–savings right there), food bill, car costs will go down. When my college guy is home, the milk bill alone costs me an Andrew Jackson more a week. You’ll get some tax advantage too. </p>

<p>How much can you pay for college? How about your son? He is “loaned up”, I agree. But he needs to put some money in the pot too. He has an unemployed parent, a family with a zero EFC. He’s got to live like a kid in those circumstances. That means working, saving and not a lot of activities that cost money. When you don’t have it, you can’t be spending it, especially if you have plans for it for college, with “it” being money. Maybe you can’t go to the prom if it’s costing you a couple hundred bucks or more. Gotta find a low cost date who’ll split the cost with you, find a used tux that’s cheaper than renting or borrow one, or not wear a tux. It hurts to scrimp, but that’s what it takes. </p>

<p>You have $15K you gotta pay–well, that means DS has to come up with $5K in earnings, you have to come up with $5K out of your budget, maybe from what you save with him at school, cutting out even more stuff, having a couple of yard sales, selling some stuff that might bring some decent money, Then you gotta either borrow $5K from PLUS, HELOC, something. If not get turned down and your son will get another $4K and you gotta come up with another $1K. Maybe family will chip in for the $1K in that case.</p>

<p>My EFC is high enough that we don’t get aid. But we are strapped with an expensive house commitment, family commitments and a whole lot of other things so we are having to do all of those things I am suggesting, as are my kids for college. I just had a yard sale that made $800. My kids and I volunteer at the soup kitchen and food pantry and get the throw away stuff there. I do clean up for all EC and school functions and take home the leftovers. Actually people are very generous to us in terms of insisting I take home food leftovers and giving me bags of used clothes and stuff because I volunteer a lot and let people know that I am in the market for throw aways. My middle school son put together the recycling program at his school as his service project, goes through garbage to get the cans and bottles, takes them home and we take them to the center every week. He keeps half the take and half goes back to Student Council. I do the same at functions when I help out, and recently hauled 300 bottles in a 2 hour thing at school $30 on the spot for nothing! $15 in DS’s pocket. And yet I live in a very upscale neighborhood.</p>

<p>cptofthehouse, excellent ideas, which I will share with my son. I’m sure you are very proud of your kids’ hard work! LOL, I hadn’t thought about the money we will save on the food budget - that is so true! He doesn’t spend much, but there is room for both of us to bring in more.</p>