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<p>What about any certain college would make a degree (in the same subject) from there more impractical than a degree from somewhere else?</p>
<p>Employers or graduate school admissions officers may have differing views of the quality of the education provided at one college versus another. A student could have the same major, but a vastly different reaction by the outside world.</p>
<p>It’s also likely that unless you have older sibs or close family friends they have NO IDEA what college costs now. Maybe go to the library and check out Paying for College without going Broke or somesuch and use it as an opener with your folks.</p>
<p>My parents’ income (lower than $60,000) is probably low enough to get some need-based aid, but there are some confounding factors like a small business. And they’ve told me about all this, but they haven’t been willing to help me run the net price calculators, which I assume is mostly because they’d have to go looking for their tax forms. It’s more of a “we’re not doing it now” than a “we’ll never do it” kind of thing, but I don’t know when they will get around to it and I’m trying to get an idea of what to do now. That, and I don’t necessary know what I’d do with their financial information if I had it anyway, and they know that.
I assume I’d get at least some need-based aid, enough to make some colleges with high sticker prices affordable if I were very frugal (I wouldn’t go to a college I absolutely couldn’t afford), but there would probably be debt and at OSU there wouldn’t be nearly as much. I just assumed that a $40,000/yr (tuition) school would always be more expensive than a $10,000/yr school (and remember I’d get merit aid at OSU too, so it wouldn’t even be that much). People always portray state schools as inherently more affordable.</p>
<p>Under $60,000 = if you can get into Ivies or similar caliber schools, you will pay very little (depending on the school and composition of the family, you can have need based aid up to $180,000/y and I think Ivies now go up to $200,000 for need based.) Harvard, Princeton, Yale, Amherst… would garantee you a free ride, including tuition, room&board, books, and the cost of a trip back home. Many of these are also loan-free or include only a small loan (much less than OSU, in all likelihood.) If you live in an urban, deindustrialized, or very rural area, you’d probably be a priority for them (as long as you had the right stats). Top schools that want you try to be more affordable than your State School. However, it depends on your stats and resume - based on what you said, it sounds like you do.
In any case, try reaching out to them and get on their mailing list.
Beside these “wild cards for anyone” schools, there are lots of schools you could consider. In particular, look into Liberal Arts Colleges, women’s colleges, smaller public schools with Honors Colleges. You could also look into New College of Florida, Truman State, St Mary’s of Maryland, even Harriet Wilkes Honors College.
[Need-blind</a> admission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind_admission]Need-blind”>Need-blind admission - Wikipedia)
[Universities</a> That Claim to Meet Full Financial Need - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/02/11/universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need]Universities”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2013/02/11/universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need)</p>
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<p>I don’t see what you have to lose by applying to the schools that interested you. Apply for financial aid. See what your options are. Then choose. </p>
<p>There really aren’t too many impractical majors that you can’t combine with something practical and develop valuable skills. The mistake many people make is not developing those valuable skills, which don’t have anything to do with a major. </p>
<p>Become a power user of Microsoft Word, Excel and Powerpoint
Make sure that you take one course in each of: Accounting, Programming, Microeconomics, and Statistics - Each will teach you a methodology of thinking that will serve you well in many professions. Then major in whatever you want.</p>
<p>Most of my stats (GPA, scores, course rigor, most likely LORs and essays) are competitive at pretty much all colleges. However, my extracurriculars/awards/leadership are definitely below average.
Are there any (top and/or large endowment) schools that don’t emphasize these as much as other places?</p>
<p>Well, you have time right now to dig into service opportunities. Tomorrow. It’s not the same old school stuff that can make you stand out, but how you committed outside that. That’s what shows vision, compassion, energy, and a willingness to commit. Go for it. If you are academically competitive, don’t miss this chance to empower yourself. Try to remember that “leadership” isn’t always about titles. It’s about the responsibilities you take on and your impact. Look at the Common App. You can always describe your leadership, even without the title. But there has to be something to work with.</p>
<p>Yes, people claim state schools are more affordable- some schools are. But some privates will go to bat for you. Look at schools offering generous, guaranteed merit aid. Find some you can love.</p>
<p>I mean, of course I’ve done some things and I’m doing stuff this summer, but they’re not competitive and I’m already a senior so there isn’t much I can do at this point to show long-term commitment. I haven’t done sports, I’ve never been the president of a club or a member of a club for more than a year, I’ve never had an internship, I’ve never won or participated in any math competitions (to be fair, my school doesn’t offer them), I’ll have to quit most of my ECs during senior year because I’m moving, etc., etc.</p>
<p>You’d have to describe the “things and stuff” and we could see if- to be frank- you are, as many kids do, underestimating them. Do you do anything in the community? That’s the easiest way. You’re falling into the “high school role” trap. Often, volunteering with a local group that serves the needy is the easiest way to acquire “leadership.” Simply by taking on more than the small role you are assigned. I won’t harp on it. Don’t confuse a hs title with real action.</p>
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<p>University of Pittsburgh doesn’t. Good endowment, generous with academic merit scholarships. </p>
<p>Schools where you are above the 75th Percentile are less likely to emphasize ECs. </p>
<p>Consider Beloit and Lawrence which are LACs that meet full need. </p>
<p>Also, schools with an admit rate of 20-25% or higher are really worth applying to for a student such as yourself. These schools really do emphasize academics first and if you’ve got the goods, you have a reasonable chance. Women’s colleges are especially attractive because they have a much higher admit rate given the quality. I’m thinking places like Mt. Holyoke, Bryn Mawr, or even Wellesley. </p>
<p>You are letting the rules of thumb on the admissions process about ECs make you feel inferior, but really, if you have the academic chops and choose a school where you are valued for that, you will have a good outcome. </p>
<p>Do things that you want to do, and don’t worry about the quality of your ECs. </p>
<p>I know plenty of kids that just do what they want and do fine in competitive college admissions, within reason. </p>
<p>Finally, consider applying ED to your favorite school. If you get admitted, you don’t have to withdraw the other applications until the school gives you an aid package that you can afford. While some colleges discourage this many schools encourage it. You should talk to the admissions department of your favorite school. </p>
<p>ED has a much higher admit rate at most schools.</p>
<p>Reed is a great school that is definitely a match school for a student like yourself. I think you should call the admissions office and inquire about ED and financial aid. It will definitely show interest either way.</p>
<p>Just an FYI - Wellesley doesn’t give merit aid - only needs-based.</p>
<p>Just a comment about “people telling me I’m selling myself short” remarks. You need to turn off your hearing with regards to other people. There are other threads about this and we experienced it in our family with D that had stats to go to top school (and got in many although no interest in ivies) but chose local honors program. Several people, including teachers, made comments as though she settled for something less. Seeing as none of them offered to pay for top schools that gave D no/minimal money, it was highly annoying. D is very happy where she is now. In the end she followed the money and is socking it away for future/grad school. She goes to school with bright, ambitious kids and has a very good support system.</p>
<p>Moral is…you can apply where you want, but be realistic in the money side and pick a school where you get a good education. Ignore people outside family and possibly don’t talk about where applying and where you get accepted.</p>
<p>Can anyone suggest universities that have an “intellectual” environment like LACs are supposed to, while also having graduate-level classes and good financial aid? </p>
<p>(I’m already aware of the University of Chicago and places like that, and I’ll apply if I can figure out what to write for the essays, but there’s no actual chance I’ll get in.)</p>
<p>Check out honors programs at large Univ. Of course I’m biased but University of South Carolina has top ranked honors program. High stats will get you good money plus OOS tuition waiver and you can stack an award for NMF if that applies. Top undergraduate international business school. Tons of Ds friends are doing research as freshmen/sophomores. CR+M midrange of 1390-1470 with top scholars even higher. (ACT 31-33) Small classes, very active office of fellowships/scholarships that work with students.</p>
<p>I understand your desire to have more certainty now and to avoid applying to colleges that you will probably not attend.</p>
<p>Please realize, however, that you can learn a lot about what you want through the process of visiting and applying to various colleges and evaluating the offers.</p>
<p>The complication of a small business makes it difficult to be able to estimate any neef-based financial aid in advance. Except for colleges that offer guaranteed merit aid for stats, it is always difficult to predict merit aid. (For example, the U. of Richmond was recommended as one that is generous with merit aid, but it offered nothing to my D, with a 35 ACT, National Merit Finalist, 4.0 (5.1 weighted), three sports a year, president of three clubs, lots of service hours, visited campus). </p>
<p>Going through the process is probably necessary in order for you to be able to make the best decision from both financial and educational standpoints.</p>
<p>This post is going to be really long…I have some updates, I guess. </p>
<p>I got my mom to help me use a couple net price calculators, and basically the costs of private schools are alarmingly high compared to the costs of Ohio State (which is affordable, so I don’t see the point in checking at lower-ranked state schools). Apparently my father’s savings will keep me from getting good financial aid, and it’s unlikely I’ll get that money until after he dies. Sometimes he acts as if he’ll help, and sometimes he says he didn’t work all his life just so he could waste his money on me. So he’s pretty inconsistent and I don’t want to have to depend on him too much. (This is just the way he is…we’re not fighting and there’s nothing I can do to make him change.)</p>
<p>So these are my questions, about OSU and probably giant mediocre state schools in general:</p>
<p>a) By the end of senior year I’ll have passed seven AP tests and taken eight college-level classes at another university in Ohio. Will this help me escape from a lot of gigantic intro classes, or do the classes never really get small?</p>
<p>b) Are research opportunities hard to get?</p>
<p>c) I’m essentially spending five years in college because of my full-time dual enrollment senior year, so I’ll probably take graduate-level classes and I hope to do research and internships and such. Will I be able to be competitive at top graduate schools if I start early and work hard and everything? I always read threads about this and some people say undergrad matters and some people say it doesn’t. I worry that I won’t be able to form relationships with faculty because of the size of the school, or that I’ll be overwhelmed all the time. And I realize I might not end up going to grad school.</p>
<p>d) Will I get into the honors program based on my stats here?:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1514251-university-michigan-out-state-chances.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/1514251-university-michigan-out-state-chances.html</a>
The Net Price Calculator predicted I would get the Maximus scholarship. </p>
<p>e) Will I have a harder time getting hired outside of Ohio? I don’t want to stay here all my life.</p>
<p>f) Is there really any point in applying to other places? Because applying to selective colleges is a lot of work, with supplement essays and interviews and all, and I don’t see the point of applying to somewhere I couldn’t attend without some kind of miracle.</p>
<p>d) odds in your favor</p>
<p>f) yes, there is. Some schools have different policies regarding divorced parents, for example. In addition, if your father’s savings are in his retirement fund, they don’t count the same way as if they’re in his savings account. If his savings are not in his retirement account, might he be willing to transfer some onto it, for your sake? The formula depends on schools and a non custodial parent who is not willing/able to pay is taken into account. however, if your mother has a long-term partner now, s/he would have to contribute part of his/her salary, and if s/he doesn’t want to, that’s another issue.
Try running the NPC without your dad’s income to see where it makes a difference and email the financial aid office (NOT admissions because admission officer usually don’t know financial details and will respond with “don’t worry we have plenty of aid”) Typically however the top schools - and based on what you’ve said, you’d have a decent shot at them - tend to be the most generous when they calculate your costs.
In short, being admitted to MIT or Stanford may turn out to be a cheaper option than Ohio State because their way of calculating your “ability to pay” may not be the same.
(Harvey Mudd is also especially good with gifted women scientists).</p>
<p>c) what college math courses have you already taken, specifically? Multivariable calc? Linear Algebra? This would help re: class sizes. PM UCBAlumnus with the precise list of classes you’ve taken and will be taking this Fall; he’d be able to direct you immediately to schools that fit your profile.
What other “gen ed” type classes/AP classes have you taken? Typically, 3rd year classes are much smaller.</p>
<p>Email math departments at schools you’re interested in with the list of math classes you’ve taken (and the grade you got), then ask what program you’d be likely to follow at their school. In short, try to get an idea of their most challenging classes.
Look into New College Florida and other separate Public Honors Colleges - but I think your best shot is top private research universities , perhaps in areas of the country with fewer applications from Ohio (Emory? Vanderbilt?) as well as liberal arts college that have an especially strong program in math. LACs would love to have you (based on your profile) and some may offer merit aid - but first you need to see if they’ll fit your math needs.</p>
<p>Grad school is not based on your parents’ income, only on your own results. In math, it’s rare that good students would be admitted without a TAship or a fellowship or both. SO I’m not sure why you’re giving up on the idea of going to grad school. If you go to grad school, it’s true that where you did your undergrad does not matter. Even if where you went as an undergrad does not matter too much (good students always find a way to distinguish themselves), if you don’t want a large state school, then there’s no harm in applying to a few universities that “fit” you better.</p>
<p>Let me preface this by saying that I think OSU is a fine school and the honors college will give you a top notch education and based on what I have heard will make the very large U seem a bit smaller and more intimate. More and more students from our competitive public HS are attending every year. Many of my D’s very smart friends are attending next year. Some turned down places like Williams to attend (mostly about the $ I think but also decided a bigger U environment was better for that particular student.)</p>
<p>However, my D and several of her friends also got really wonderful merit offers from a variety of private colleges (both LACs and larger) that made those even more affordable than OSU. For instance, one of D’s friends got almost full tuition from George Washington University - combo of merit and FA. Denison is known to give out a lot of merit (and will stack their named institutional merit grants on top of need based aid). Also, Denison is a FAFSA only school. Nearly everyone we know was offered at least 20K in grants and Denison has several $40K per year renewable scholarships. Our friend who attends Denison now turned down U Chicago to attend on one of those scholarships and is thrilled so far with her experience. College of Wooster was also generous to D’s friends. </p>
<p>Your stats look quite good and you just never know what will happen with the $. As long as you apply to at least one school that you know you can afford and will like (and that looks to be OSU), then you will be in good shape. You might want to apply to a few more colleges (especially if you think that you would prefer a smaller environment) just so that you can compare offers in the spring. As long as you let your head rule your decision making in the end you will be fine.</p>
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<p>They’re legally separated, not divorced, if it makes a difference. (I may have said they’re divorced because my living situation is the same as it would be if they were divorced.) I included my father’s income and assets because I’ve read that colleges consider the non-custodial parents’ stuff when calculating aid. </p>
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<p>Intro to Ethics at college, and my AP scores are:
4 - Calculus BC, Biology, Chemistry, US History, English Lit
3 - US Government, Statistics</p>
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<p>As of now I’ve had AP Calculus BC.
I’m a rising senior. Next year I’m definitely taking Linear Algebra, Intro to Differential Equations, and Intro to Number Theory. Those will be first semester, and I’ll probably take a few more math classes second semester depending on how I do in the first three classes. I’m thinking about Multivariable Calculus and Intro to Discrete Math, and maybe Numerical Analysis and Abstract Algebra but I don’t know yet.
(I would have taken multivariable first semester but it didn’t fit in my schedule and differential equations didn’t have it as a prerequisite. By the way, the school doesn’t have versions without “intro,” at least in their undergrad catalog. Those are their standard math major courses.)</p>
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<p>I’m talking about how graduate school admissions prospects coming from OSU compare to those I’d get from a better school. I understand that most students get funding. My “and I realize I might not end up going to grad school” means that I realize I’m really young and don’t necessarily know what I’ll want to do with my life when I’m 21.</p>