Scholarship?

<p>I recently attended an info session as an OOS mom and specifically asked the admissions director if there are any circumstances where an OOS student could have OOS tuition waived? He told me no. Perhaps I am misunderstanding some earlier posts about OOS students being considered in state for tuition if they receive any kind of merit aid? He did not indicate that this happens. UNC is not at all high on our list for other reasons so we don't care at this point but I wanted to let others know how my question was answered. Hope this helps</p>

<p>There was great commotion several years ago when the loophole allowing OOS students awarded full scholarships to be classified as in-state was discovered and utilized. </p>

<p>As someone else said earlier, the first year it went into effect, there was no grandfathering so then rising sophomores and up continued to be billed as true OOS students. In other words an example would be that rising sophomore, junior and senior OOS Davie Scholars still were awarded approximately half tuition while those who were incoming freshman were treated as in-state and essentially got the full ride. There was much gnashing of teeth among many posters on both sides of the issue since true in-state winners were NOT getting the full ride.</p>

<p>Go back and look through the CC archives, there were some VERY interesting and heated discussions.</p>

<p>I'm really not trying to "heat this up" but wanted to share articles to help clear up this topic. (Sorry, I can't help but give my opinion, too.) Here's the link to UNC's merit scholarships from last fall, listing which scholarships are full rides to out-of-state recipients. (this list does not include private scholarships such as Morehead and Robertson, but OOS recipients of those are also counted as IS) Carolina</a> Development, UNC-Chapel Hill
My D is IS Carolina scholar, so she only gets $7500 per year from Carolina, while OOS Carolina Scholars get full ride. It kinda "stung" at first being an NC taxpayer and all, but (IMHO) one way or another UNC needs to be able to enroll more highly talented OOS students. (it would be simpler if NC would just increase the allowed % of OOS students) The 18% OOS cap is too low(again, IMHO). Other highly competitve states' universities are able to enroll 30%+. With the way our NC public schools are, it's a truly amazing feat that Carolina is as fine of a university as it is.
Here's also a link to article about full scholarship OSS's being counted as IS. (actually it's about trying to repeal this) "Bill</a> would repeal tuition break" : News-Record.com : Greensboro, North Carolina</p>

<p>uncwife&mom: I agree completely with your statement:</p>

<p>
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. . . (it would be simpler if NC would just increase the allowed % of OOS students) The 18% OOS cap is too low(again, IMHO).

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<p>I would much rather see the cap simply raised, than raised through the back door, with NC taxpayers picking up much of the cost of this legislation. As stated earlier, 2 senators have been working on a repeal for a while, unsuccessfully. They have recently amended their appeal to include only the athletic merit scholarships. Maybe your link talks about this; I haven't read it yet.</p>

<p>I agree that to magically transform those OOS (previously partial) scholarships to full-freight, while maintaining the partial funding for in-state, is amazingly inequitable and very short-sighted.</p>

<p>The better route to have taken was simply make OOS merit scholarship awardees in-state for tuition purposes only, and leave it at that. They would still have to pay room and board, etc.</p>

<p>hope4freeride: I'm guessing that his answer was based on the way you phrased the question, perhaps. Some universities are very clear about the phrasing-- stated in just the way you asked it. I do think this legislation is so convoluted in the way it was drawn up, that he probably just didn't view it in the same light. </p>

<p>Absolutely, though, those merit scholarship awardees from OOS are considered in-state for tuition purposes. At this point, I maintain that's true for all merit scholarships (for OOS), though some posters here believe that the legislation doesn't cover all of them. That may be true, but I'm still waiting on evidence to the contrary. ;)</p>

<p>At least part of the answer is located at UNC</a> News release -- UNC awards more than $1 million in scholarships</p>

<p>The Coker-Fox, one of the few "named" merit scholarships available to OOS students is not, in fact, a "full ride". For OOS, it is still $10,000. </p>

<p>Now to a little guesswork and speculation. The news release refers to 197 recipients of scholarships valued at "more than $1 million", but the Common Data Set indicates that 754 members of the freshman class received some form of institutional non-need based scholarship or grant aid in the aggregate amount of $4,119,000 and in the average amount of $4,119 (these numbers are exclusive of athletic awards). Given these numbers, I can only assume that UNC makes some merit based awards/scholarships/grants that are in addition to the "named" scholarships referred to in the annual press releases, which refer only to the endowed scholarships. I think it also reasonable to assume that OOS students are recipients of some these awards, and I seriously doubt that all are "full-ride".</p>

<p>Okay, I did a little research. In answer to tyr's and eadad's comments that not all merit scholarships qualify OOS for in-state tuition, or don't cover everything-- the ONLY merit scholarship I could find that does not cover all costs for an OOS student is the Coker-Fox Scholarship, which tyr mentioned, and that is $10K for an OOS student.</p>

<p>The link below might help. When you see the statement, " . . . out-of-state recipients receive $13,036 – the equivalent of tuition, fees, room and board for an in-state student," that means that they are considered in-state for tuition purposes, and so their award basically covers everything (ie, becomes full-freight). </p>

<p>eadad is correct that only the Morehead, as well as the Robertson, also offer a stipend, plus summer internships/travel, but those always did-- for all students who receive those, regardless of residency status.</p>

<p>Again, though, as far as I can tell, the ONLY merit scholarship for OOS students that does not cover full costs (tuition, fees, room and board), is the Coker-Fox. According to this link, it would seem all others do-- including the Col. Robinson Scholarship.</p>

<p>Obviously, there are also many more scholarships for in-state students, but they vary in award amount and what they cover. Only the Robertson and Morehead remain full-freight for in-state students.</p>

<p>Carolina</a> Development, UNC-Chapel Hill</p>

<p>edit: tyr, we cross-posted-- sorry. If there are more merit scholarships out there awarded to OOS students, I don't know about them. There certainly are athletic scholarships that work the same way, but I don't know about any additional for OOS students. The Carolina Covenant, while need-based--might be under the merit-based scholarships? Not sure, but I think the kids who receive those are also highly deserving (in terms of merit as well as need). That might be included in those figures. ? </p>

<p>But there are many merit scholarships, as you can see from my link, that are awarded to in-state students-- very specific to certain counties, etc. Maybe your figures include NMF monies?</p>

<p>Since there are less than 700 (is that right?) OOS students in a freshman class, I suspect those named merit scholarships are it for OOS students.</p>

<p>All I can say with any degree of comfort is that the most current news release with respect to merit scholarships reflects that there were 197 "named" scholarships awarded, but that the Common Data Set reflects non-need based awards to an additonal 557 students. The dollar amounts reflected on in the Common Data Set also indicate that much more money was awarded than is reflected in the news release. Where the numbers come from and who was awarded what I have no means of knowing. There, however, is an obvious disconnect between the numbers in the press release and the CDS.</p>

<p>Basicially, if you take ALL of the "named" awards to IS and OOS students based on the most recent press release there are awards of some kind to 557 students unaccounted for. National Merit Scholarship surely account for part of this number, but certainly not all. Also, keep in mind that a good number of the students receiving the "named" scholarships will be the same as those receiving National Merit Scholarships. Given that these scholarships are only $1,000 - $2,000, depending on need, there are a lot of students and a lot of money that are unaccounted for. I have no reason to believe that the numbers in the CDS are not accurate. On the other hand, I have no way of knowing the details of where the numbers come from or whether any of these funds are given to OOS students; just as you have no facts to indicate that they are not. I am simply drawing conclusions from incomplete information, and that is why I said it was guesswork and speculation in the first place. </p>

<p>The Carolina Covenant is a great program, but is need based. The Johnston Awards are also a need based program. The line item in the Common Data Set specifically refers to freshman students "who had no financial need and who awarded institutional non-need based scholarship or grant aid" exclusive of athletic awards. Neither the Carolina Covenant nor the Johnston awards meet this definition, no matter how deserving the students are. There are separate line items in the CDS for need-based scholarship and grants.</p>

<p>My impression - and this could be completely wrong - is that for most scholarships administered by the Office of Scholarships & Student Aid (i.e. everything but the Robertson and Morehead), endowed merit scholarships for OOS students are endowed separately from the endowed merit scholarships for IS students. </p>

<p>More money was demanded of donors for OOS scholarships, so there is more money in the endowment per OOS student than there is per IS student. I don't really understand why they don't simply split the OOS scholarships up and give partial ones to more OOS students. It's possible that they can't due to a set payment amount per student required by the endowment. I'm not sure.</p>

<p>Also, it used to be that 75% of profits from sales of logo merchandise went to need-based scholarships and 25% went to athletics. Several years ago, this was changed so that none went to athletics: 75% still goes to need-based scholarships, but 25% now goes to merit scholarships. </p>

<p>These merit scholarships are not endowed and I believe most if not all of them are awards of no more than around $3,000 annually. tyr, this may make up some or all of the disparity you are seeing between the press release and the common data set.</p>

<p>tyr: I looked at that latest CDS, and it does say on that line item: "Number of students in line d who were awarded any non-need-based
scholarship or grant aid - 579."</p>

<p>So, "grant aid" is included in that. "Grants" are usually under financial aid, but you are correct that "non-need based" implies merit. Interesting choice of words.. It would be great of some OOS student who might have been awarded a grant or scholarship that was less than full (except for the Coker-Fox) would post here.</p>

<p>Also, under that news release that mentions 197 students, I don't believe that release included the Morehead or Robertson, where, even though those monies are in separate non-University foundations/endowments, those OOS students are also considered in-state for tuition purposes. So, I would guess that the Morehead would add ~50 students overall (more for this coming year), split evenly between instate and out-of-state. The Robertson is not split evenly, like the Morehead, and more OOS students are typically awarded than in-state-- and usually culminates with a total of 18 at UNC, with more than half being from OOS. So the Morehead and Robertson would add about 70 scholarships. Again, I didn't go back to look, but I didn't think they were included in the 197 in that press release.</p>

<p>At any rate, attached is an article written in the DTH in August of this year. At the bottom of the article, it mentions that the number of UNC-CH students impacted is 192, but that the number of UNC-system students impacted is 737. So it would seem that maybe that CDS number is system-wide?</p>

<p>
[quote]
The provision allows out-of-state students on full scholarships to be counted as N.C. residents for tuition purposes.
Number of UNC-system students affected:
Total: 737
502 (68.1 percent): Athletic
235 (31.9 percent): Academic
Number of UNC-CH students affected:
Total: 192 students
76 (39.6 percent): Athletic
116 (60.4 percent): Academic
Cost to the UNC system:
$8.6 million

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Out-of-state</a> scholarships could lose state subsidy - State & National</p>

<p>Finally, I suspect the <em>only</em> reason the Coker-Fox is not full-freight is because it was endowed AFTER this legislation was passed, though not sure.</p>

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tyr: I looked at that latest CDS, and it does say on that line item: "Number of students in line d who were awarded any non-need-based
scholarship or grant aid - 579."

[/quote]

It is good to know that we can agree on something. :)

[quote]
Also, under that news release that mentions 197 students, I don't believe that release included the Morehead or Robertson, where, even though those monies are in separate non-University foundations/endowments, those OOS students are also considered in-state for tuition purposes. So, I would guess that the Morehead would add ~50 students overall (more for this coming year), split evenly between instate and out-of-state. The Robertson is not split evenly, like the Morehead, and more OOS students are typically awarded than in-state-- and usually culminates with a total of 18 at UNC, with more than half being from OOS. So the Morehead and Robertson would add about 70 scholarships. Again, I didn't go back to look, but I didn't think they were included in the 197 in that press release.

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I would not think the Morehead and Robertson would be included in the CDS numbers referred to for the reason that they are not “institutional” awards, as both are administered by separate foundations. However, I have no way of confirming this, and perhaps they are reflected in this line item of the CDS. Even assuming that they are, this still would not make up the discrepancy in the numbers. No, they are not included in the 197 referred to in the press release, probably because the those scholarships are not actually awarded by UNC. </p>

<p>
[quote]
At any rate, attached is an article written in the DTH in August of this year. At the bottom of the article, it mentions that the number of UNC-CH students impacted is 192, but that the number of UNC-system students impacted is 737. So it would seem that maybe that CDS number is system-wide?

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The CDS is only for UNC-Chapel Hill. Please note the CDS numbers I referred to were only for first year students. The 192 and 737 numbers you referred to above are for students in all classes.

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Finally, I suspect the <em>only</em> reason the Coker-Fox is not full-freight is because it was endowed AFTER this legislation was passed, though not sure

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<p>For whatever it is worth, the Coker-Fox was established in 1980 according to the news release you referred to in Post No. 20.</p>