School Has Become Too Hostile to Boys

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That’s exactly what it was with me. Other people’s sons always seemed like wild beasts and I wanted none of that. I had no idea that my son would be the Precious Baby King, himself, hang the moon and bring music to the world. Seriously, though, mine has his issues, but he is mine and that trumps all. They also know that each parent has his or her absolute no-nos and each parent’s will be different. What the kid over there does that drives me insane is not as likely to happen with my own kid because those things just don’t happen in your own house. Other annoying things do, but not the nuclear, never-do-this things.</p>

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I totally support reading things that are assigned because they can be very enriching, but letting kids learn to love words must involve free choice in at least some of the options. Same son had a teacher the following year who had very strict guidelines on how book reports had to be presented, but she allowed and encouraged the kids to choose their material as long as it was both challenging enough and not too mature in theme. She allowed him to do a book report including recorded music in a book report about Charlie Parker. He enjoyed that so much and the prior teacher didn’t allow biographies.</p>

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<p>I don’t believe this at all. I tried really hard to keep gender neutal “stuff” when the boys were very little, but the minute they went to the babysitters house they grabbed the Tonka Trucks and turned the wooden spoons into guns. My wise grandmother type babysitter told me it’s ALWAYS that way. Those same boys will play with dolls as well as wooden spoon make believe guns but they will choose the Tonka trucks and make believe guns first over and over again.</p>

<p>Frankly I prefer differences between the sexes. And while I missed very much not having a daughter, I’d choose raising boys over girls. Definitely less drama and more directness. I know what they wanted, what they didn’t want and I didn’t have to second guess much. </p>

<p>I didn’t have too much trouble at their schools but we had a high percentage of male teachers especially starting in middle school so I didn’t see many particular personality issues for my boys.</p>

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<p>Laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes. I come from a long line of estrogen dominated households. The only male relatives were a continent away. My first was a D. When the pre-natal tests came back during my second pregnancy and they showed I was carrying a boy, I thought…OMG…I am harboring a space alien. What in the world am I supposed to do with a boy!</p>

<p>Yes, it is a different (and in most ways less complicated) relationship than I have with D. I feel so blessed to have had the opportunity to mother both.</p>

<p>Lots of gender stereotyping here.</p>

<p>DS was not a rough and tumble boy. He could sit quietly and concentrate on something for awhile, before other kids his age could.</p>

<p>DD was active but also had lots of concentration as a child.</p>

<p>There are so many individual differences, folks. </p>

<p>But, you know what, any policy that suspends a kid for pretending to shoot a pencil is plain dumb. Get rid of them, but because it’s “hostile to boys.”</p>

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<p>Exactly the show I was thinking about. Then we came to the schoolyard the next day and played combat. The left-handed kid always insisted on being Caje.</p>

<p>I have sons and boy-girl twins, and what is happening to boys within the public school system, especially, is just what is happening to their fathers and other men in our culture - a clear message that they are no different than the girls (though common sense screams otherwise), that there is no special place in the world for their gifts and unique male characteristics, that they are expendable and unnecessary. The effort to emasculate men reaches into the schools, too, because many of the women teaching now grew up being taught that men are not essential, not due any particular respect, and are inferior. No wonder boys pick up on the condescension. And they certainly pick up on it. My sons did when they were in public school (we homeschool now and would never go back.)</p>

<p>What is great, though, is that boys, in general, don’t care about playing the games that girls and grown women involve themselves in. When my kids were in public schools, and my sons would have to deal with female teachers who talked down to them, they respectfully listened and then they moved on - they could not have cared less about those teachers’ opinions of them. Typical boys, not concerned at all about what other women thought about them. My daughter received a great deal of praise and attention (and it was so much more than her twin brother, who achieved the same levels of academic success, and was often in the same classes, but who rarely heard a word of praise) and she did care about it - so much so at times that if she did not hear consistent praise, she automatically assumed she had done something wrong. Typical girl, too concerned about what other women thought about her.</p>

<p>While my sons respected all of their teachers, they were only impressed by what their male teachers had to say to them, even if those male teachers had something negative. Kind of like appreciating Simon Cowell for being straightforward and honest, if abrasive, than the touchy-feely flattery of Paula Abdul.</p>

<p>But really, hasn’t school become hostile to all kids these days? There have always been bullies (the scariest ones I knew were the girls who hung out smoking in the bathroom - I don’t think I ever used the junior high bathroom during my entire time in junior high.) School has become prison-like and so enervating. When my kids would come home and tell me about their days, I would find myself feeling as beyond bored and uninspired as they felt. Ugh. At least that is how it became for my kids, and they had access to what were supposed to be some of the best schools around. Those schools had nothing on my public school experience in the 70s and 80s, when I never felt imprisoned, but always felt free to learn and to pursue whatever I wanted. The guys I knew also felt empowered, or at least they felt engaged, because they still got involved in clubs and student leadership along with athletics and college prep academics. Our student council was a nice mix of boys and girls. These days, a boy holding a class office is a rarity. As my sons said, why bother? Their school’s student council did very little anyway, and my boys did not want to waste their time sitting around planning dances (their words.)</p>

<p>Of course, all of these empowered and encouraged girls running the schools these days walk around dressed in short shorts and tank tops, attempting to attract boys the old-fashioned way. I am not sure that demonstrates any real progress.</p>

<p>I think most of us understand there are individual differences. But the nature of this topic is a generalized viewpoint already. There are a large number of boys who are not really finding the school system effective. What can be done about this? Generally , these are good questions to ask. Maybe the new core will help with this.</p>

<p>Wow, chesterton. </p>

<p>I was volunteering at my child’s school registration yesterday, and I was struck by how few men were there for their kids. It was probably 75% or more moms. And this trend went across socioeconomic differences. Parents send a message, too.</p>

<p>Yes, wow. chesterton, I can’t agree with much of your post #86. I see a great deal of condescension toward women in it. One cadre of tank top, short shorts-wearing girls does not an entire school make. (And in my kids’ public school, there was a rigorously enforced dress code.)</p>

<p>I guess I don’t understand what you mean by “empowered.” My daughters are, and were in high school, and without the tank tops and short shorts, thanks. Shouldn’t they be? Shouldn’t they do as well as they can in school, plan to support themselves in the future, be ambitious? </p>

<p>I don’t understand what there is about female success that emasculates men. I’m all for valuing the unique gifts of human beings - I’ve got no problem respecting “unique male characteristics” as long as we’re going to respect unique female characteristics, too. Your post doesn’t mention admirable female characteristics, though. I don’t accept that female teachers systematically reward girls while they ignore boys in some kind of unspoken conspiracy to devalue masculinity. Yup, I’ve got daughters, but they’ve got male husbands, significant others, cousins, and friends whom they, and I, love. I care about their success and happiness, too.</p>

<p>Yes. IMO the problem stems from thinking like chestertons. It’s not a competition between boys and girls/men and women. Whichever side approaches it this way loses out. But men, in particular, who are that averse to women really aren’t going to get far in today’s world, and even less so in the world of tomorrow. It’s on everyone’s best interest that our schools serve everyone well, but it can be win/win. Men will just have to get more involved.</p>

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I don’t think female success emasculates men, but I do think that our culture does. Families don’t need men to support them anymore, because government will. Men are portrayed on tv and in popular culture as dithering idiots. I actually read an entire article yesterday about whether the new tv show that portrays men as competent fathers has any chance of success. Since pathology sells, it’s more evident in tv, movies, books, etc. and it almost presents an image of what is expected. Like back in the dark ages when the Huxtables were the family to emulate, that’s what people (white and black) aspired to and the dad was a strong, serious, manly man. He was nobody’s fool, but would that really show up anymore? I don’t know. The appetite seems to be for the bizarre and outrageous and I do think it is a major lack.</p>

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I don’t think that’s true, either, but I do think that boys can be much more annoying to women and that, particularly at the higher grade levels, female teachers identify more and share more in common with girls. I do think it would be a great benefit to everyone if there were more male teachers, particularly at the higher levels, and I’m sorry if that’s offensive. (Says the mom of a female, upper level teacher.)</p>

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There are just so many kids for whom there are no men in their lives at all.</p>

<p>And we need to model respect of men and their role, particularly when they aren’t present. I have a son who I always say is smothered by women. He has a very involved father, but being in an all boys school with mostly male teachers is the best thing that happened to him. When my daughter was looking for teaching jobs, she ran across many charter schools that teach black and hispanic kids. They are straight-up honest in telling potential teachers that they are looking for black and hispanic teachers, particularly of the male persuasion, because having role models that share something in common is a huge benefit to all kids and those schools feel a responsibility to provide those role models, whenever possible, to kids who might not find them elsewhere.</p>

<p>Chesterton I have no idea where you/ your children went/go to school but your experiences are almost the opposite of mine. Several parents (read moms) had to call the school out on the policy for moving kids ahead in math. Mostly boys were moved ahead until we insisted that everyone be tested and then wonder of wonders, several girls ( as well as boys who are minorities) suddenly qualified. Both of my kids were academically talented but it was S who got lots of attention and D who was ignored. Maybe because she was not wearing tank tops and short shorts?</p>

<p>My experiences in the 70’s were with girls being class or student gov secretary but never president. It just wasn’t “tradition”. Now both boys and girls feel free to run for leadership positions and in both of my kids HS’s that is exactly what I saw.</p>

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I was just the opposite when I worked as a substitute teacher. Rowdy boy behavior didn’t bother me but little priss-pot girls who were already trading on their looks and thought the rules didn’t apply to them drove me up the wall. I had to constantly ask myself “Is she truly misbehaving or is she just getting on my nerves?”</p>

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Because you are obviously a self-aware, thoughtful person.</p>

<p>I don’t even always ask myself that about my own kids, and when he was younger the boy behavior drove me out of my mind. He still has a bit of a sense of humor that his father gets and I don’t. Which is fine because he wouldn’t hug his father if I paid him, but he waits for me by the door with a giant hug every night. I win!</p>

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<p>Can go the other way too. If I remember correctly, it was my middle school where girls were allowed to wear hats, but boys we not. Likely the rules are more restrictive for girls than boys though. In truth though, girl’s dress is going to be far more distracting to boys than boy’s is to girls, so it’s not completely reasonless, though I can see arguing whether or not that should matter.</p>

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<p>I hope you meant because “because women will”. Of course in a healthy family, both parents might or one or other other might, or they might trade off.</p>

<p>Government “support” is miniscule and at least in the case of any money paid as welfare, temporary - has been since Bill Clinton overhauled the system in the 90’s.</p>

<p>I have a boy and a girl and I honestly haven’t seen any difference in the way they are treated by teachers, our HS class government is made up of both genders, there are both boys and girls on the honor roll and at HS honors night (though the one striking difference is still tons of math-science awards going to boys, there’s hardly ever a girl up there for those…but to be fair 2-3 boys seem to get those awards over and over). We actually have an OK number of dads around helping out, though almost never in the classroom (parents helped in the lower grades) but rather as athletic boosters and the like.</p>

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Nope. I meant what I said. At the upper levels of income, people are still getting married and having two possible breadwinners. It’s down lower on the scale (regardless of race) where the government is stepping in and people aren’t getting married. You don’t have to agree, I’m not trying to change minds.</p>

<p>In my area, girls are almost always vals and sals in the co-ed schools. I’m not really sure what to make of that, though, because I don’t really think it reflects bias against boys in any particular way. My personal feeling is that at the middle school is where it is most problematic.</p>

<p>Actually marriage rates are lower than ever even for upper income people. But I suppose this is off topic.</p>

<p>Lower, but not as low.</p>