I don’t think that’s actually universally true for American public universities which would be the only fair comparison to make. In any event I’m not sure how that’s relevant in the face of a pandemic. Viruses don’t care about business models. The same challenges in preventing the spread exist in either model. The only thing that may differ is the willingness of those in charge to place the emphasis on the bottom line vs the well being of their employees and students and their responsibility to the greater community in which they reside. It’s a matter of values not economics.
@gwnorth It’s different because there is a balance point between economics and health, and actually, most public universities are funded by the state to a much smaller extent than international universities; I read an article the other day about how American public universities (even state flagships) are increasingly becoming privatized, and it mentioned that some public colleges have only 2% of their operating budgets coming from state funding. In other words, some public colleges receive such little funding from the state that they are practically private.
@ChemAM the same financial pressures exist for Canadian public universities. Universities in Ontario get less than 50% of their funding from the government and are increasingly becoming less “public”. This past year the provincial government mandated a domestic tuition decrease and 2 year freeze and did not compensate the institutions to make up the funding shortfall. The percentage of public funding that universities get has been declining for years. This in part explains their increased reliance on international students who pay higher tuition rates and industry partnerships. There is even some talk that some of the smaller affiliated colleges at some schools may have to close. They will not be bailed out by taxpayers. Canadian institutions are going to be hurt financially by the restrictions being imposed by the virus. Regardless they can’t just decide that financial considerations are more important and go against the mandates of the local and provincial governments. They will not have the option to offer an in person campus experience in the fall because of their economic reality. It’s not within their powers.
My son is still in his rural college town. The spring semester is over and summer classes are online. Virtually all of the students have moved out and gone home. Interestingly, the town became a state hotspot for Covid-19 well after the school shut down In March and a majority of the students had already left.
He went to pick up take-out yesterday evening in the small downtown area. All of the restaurant patios were packed with people eating and drinking. Apparently there wasn’t any social distancing, and absolutely no mask wearing. He says most people don’t wear masks in the grocery stores. Walmart, forget about it, he won’t go there anymore because he says it looks like business as usual.
All this activity makes me wonder, will the school need to protect the residents from student infection…or will the school need to protect the students from residents?
What about all the essential workers who work every day to put food on the table for you, should they all sue you too? Yes you, and me, everyone who need to consume food and other essential supplies. Because, you, me, everyone, we are the enablers (we can’t stop buying/eating) to make them go to work every day. How horrible are we! They should sue all of us! All the essential workers should be suing all the rest of the world!
Point is, where is the line if you go down that path? The only people who benefit from the madness are the lawyers. The good lawyers win more than the not so effective ones, but they all win regardless. And the people suffer.
There has to be a way to stop the madness, and only congress has the power to do so, I hope they get to work! Otherwise schools and companies will go bankrupt no matter which way they go.
xxx
Rowan has 2 medical schools.
To allow businesses, including colleges, to open without the fear of liability if an employee or customer (or in the case of colleges, faculty, staff or students) become ill with COVID-19 that is traced to the workplace, I can envision the federal government creating a fund to provide compensation while creating a liability shield for employers.
I think you are seeing the delay from when a super spreader event happens and when the community spread is noticed.
We had a lot of St Patrick’s Day parties after the college had closed but before the students had fully gone home. They tracked multiple hospitalizations to those parties, but it took about 4 weeks for the spread to be seen.
DS19’s school has formally announced it’s plans for the fall
Wonder what they are doing in January and how long students will be ok with a full online college experience. I can’t imagine (unless we get lucky with a vaccine) spring semester will be any better than fall.
Rice students just got the following email. Not sure if this is the plan for when classes resume or just “until further notice” but the fact that they refer to faculty wearing masks while teaching makes me think this is their current plan for fall. I have a lot of questions about this but I assume more information will be coming. And this seems much stricter than what I was expecting based on some recent comments the Rice President has made.
Many people in the Rice community have suggested we provide regular updates regarding planning, policies and intentions about the university’s response to COVID-19. Starting today and every Monday we will provide a short update. This week we’re reviewing the campus policy on face coverings.
Beginning June 1, 2020 and until further notice, all employees, students, contractors, and visitors on Rice’s campus must cover their mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when they are around other people. This is an important precaution to protect others — you may have the virus and not know it because you have no symptoms. Thus everyone on campus is required to wear a cloth face cover as defined by the CDC and as delineated below:
Indoors. Face coverings must be worn indoors at all times except:
When you’re in your residential dorm suite.
When you’re in your own office or space used only by you.
If you are faculty providing classroom instruction and you choose to substitute an alternate protective barrier, such as a face shield.
Outdoors. You must have a face covering – either worn on your face or carried on your person — at all times anywhere on campus, including when you’re outdoors. If you aren’t wearing your face covering while outdoors, you must keep it readily available so that you can put it on if you come into close proximity with others (within 6 feet).
The university will provide a mask for every employee, student and visitor to use while on campus. We are in the process of executing a contract for this service which we expect to start by the end of June. The service will allow you to pick up a cloth mask every morning and return it at the end of the work day whereupon it will be cleaned and sanitized per CDC and FDA guidelines and recycled. You may also use your own face covering.
Please remember that the cloth face cover is not a substitute for physical distancing. These two precautions work in conjunction with each other.
“MIT administrators discussed department input about teaching scenarios for the fall at a meeting hosted by Vice Chancellor Ian Waitz May 8. The presentation notes can be found in a Dropbоx folder created by the Undergraduate Association (UA).”
https://thetech.com/2020/05/23/department-teaching-scenarios
Detailed input and discussion documents are available in public access at the links from the article above.
Good of them to share this information in such a public manner.
I am reading “Department responses to the teaching scenarios survey” now, and it drives home some of the enormous challenges colleges are up against.
Truly an “MIT hard” problem.
@AlwaysMoving A majority of the earlier cases, like in many other locations throughout the U.S., were associated with assisted living communities. They also saw spread from local poultry and meet processing plants. Now there is more traditional community spread.
Regardless, my point is that things are re-opening there currently with little social distancing and minimal mask wearing while congregating outside, or inside. Spread occurring there this summer will be driven by, and among, the local residents. If transmission and infections don’t significantly subside there in the next 90 days the students returning shouldn’t be the primary concern of the local population.
Would you share which college,@gwnorth?
We are all hoping that they will be back F2F in January but of course there is no guarantee. It will probably depend on what the case numbers for the province as whole are like. Recently our numbers have been going up even though we are still mostly under SAH orders. They are trying to ramp up testing and contact tracing. If they can get the numbers back down it makes it more likely that in-person classes can resume in the winter. Time will tell which is why they will be waiting to announce their plans for the January semester. As to how long students will be ok with online instruction it’s not like they have a choice. Most of the schools are doing exactly the same thing and gap years are not common here. Deferrals are usually only offered on an exceptional basis. Students of course have an option not to accept their admissions offers but then they will have to reapply next year. The commitment deadline is not until June so they have a bit of time to decide.
@gwnorth: Is this a Canadian school?
@PrdMomto1 yes, in Ontario.
@GKUnion I was just thinking this morning about how many people are out and about without masks or distancing and wondering how that could change anything for fall for colleges or for K-12. Geez. If so many people are blowing off the advice, then what? Is this virus going to blow through states in July? Is there any chance that this could show that the virus is even less deadly than we think and then what? Will any of these “rules” change? I don’t think there will be time to analyze whatever happens in the next two months unless testing gets ramped up big time. On the flip side, what if there are hot spots all over the country in July? Well, we know what that means. There might be colleges that bag the whole idea of going back on campus. Or decisions will be made very locally depending on how that county is doing.
And I agree about the faculty pose risk to the kids too. At many LACs, kids really do stay on campus but their professors go home each night to their spouses and kids and go shopping at the markets, etc. Why is the conversation always about the kids getting the profs sick? So, the profs can stay home and provide a lesser online experience for their students but the college expects the kids to show up and pay for their dorms? Shouldn’t it go both ways? If kids (and parents who are paying) agree to send kids back to live in dorms, they’ve done their part of the deal. Shouldn’t professors do their part, follow the rules like the kids will while on campus, and go to class?
Completely off topic if you could indulge me.
I’ve always roll my eyes when our Bell Labs friends saying “Bell Labs hard problem” ?. And how they love saying it.
Is this a thing? Do people say Berkeley hard problem, Harvard hard problem, etc.? I’ll have always heard Bell labs hard, now MIT hard…
Gotcha.
We all see the precautions in our community and think it’s the same everywhere, but each place is unique. Where I live it’s masks 100% indoors and almost everyone outside by locals, but that’s not universal.