Interesting that you quoted the UK in that same post… here’s what one expert thinks the delayed closing of the UK means: 3.5x more people are dying in the UK than in neighboring Ireland, which shut down quicker.
If those numbers are correct, that’s not hysteria. That’s saving the lives of thousands of people by putting a nation on stay-at-home mere 2 weeks earlier.
Pretty compelling evidence IMO not to rush “reopening” of the economy before we have effective ways of treating/preventing this deadly illness.
We are moving to Asia this summer and it just occured to me if D20 has to do online freshman classes in the Fall it will be a 13 hour time difference. Is there anyone here in Asia who is doing this now?
Yes, two of my daughter’s college friends went home when their college shut down…one to China, one to Dubai. I expect thousands of students did the same.
I actually like the idea with some modifications, if COVID-19 is still a serious threat in the fall (for colleges that are predominantly residential):
All freshman classes (perhaps even sophomore-level classes) are online only.
All students who take these online classes only are to remain in their homes for the fall term. Tuition discounts will be offered to these students only.
The remaining students will all be tested for the virus, and if negative, can stay on campus (or designated off campus housing if necessary). Dorms and classrooms will be de-densified to the maximum extent possible.
Student face-to-face interactions with faculty and staff will be limited to only those that are absolutely necessary.
No outside visitor will be allowed and travel will continue to be restricted for everyone.
Really, it would just be easier to send your child to college in another country which will have fully functional universities. And parents who are less paranoid.
Schools never closed in Singapore. It was not the end of the world there, or really anywhere else outside of NYC/NJ. Things are reopening in many places,around the world.
The NY Times has an article this morning on college and coronavirus. A lot of the information has been covered here but topics include weakened endowments, loss of international students, possible impacts on students choices for the fall, and how even wealthy schools are making cuts. Colby College president was quoted as saying a late start in Oct or Nov is not that big of a deal but a January start could be a problem. If you want to read it the headline is: After Coronavirus, Colleges Worry: Will Students Come Back?
My S20 is on day 17 on a viral infection, and doc is now 99% sure it is COVID-19 (without exposure to a confirmed case, he can not obtain a test). S20 is a varsity athlete with no underlying conditions.
Here’s how I would explain his course: think of the 3 or 4 worst bugs you have had in the past 10 years. Now imagine them back-to-back for 17 days. As soon as the group of symptoms subside, a new set starts. He has had a couple of days in there where he felt good enough to get out of bed and walk outside; he even picked up a hand weight once or twice. But that was always followed by a relapse which sent him back to bed with fever and weakness. Beyond the fever, he has had abdominal pain, a very severe headache, sore throat, nausea, dizziness, overall muscle pain, and nasal congestion (and secondary sinus infection). He has had no sense of taste or smell for about 10 days and is barely eating. I slept on the floor next to his bed last night to be able to hear his breathing.
He has had several telehealth sessions with his doc to rule out other things (meningitis, etc). Doc says all we can do is treat the symptoms and watch for signs of a cough or trouble breathing, signaling a trip to the ED. We sure don’t want him admitted as visitors are not allowed. That terrifies me.
While the vast majority of young people would not have the same experience as my son, a small percentage will. In a large university, this scenario would play out for hundreds of students. His intended campus is only 2 hours away by car, so we could have brought him home fairly quickly. But what I have noticed about this virus is how quickly patients tank. It seemed that one minute he would start to feel better, and the next minute, he was as sick as I have ever seen any of my kids get. This happened over and over for the past 17 days. I guess the message to anyone reading this, perhaps in the future, is if your student shows symptoms of this, bring him or her home. Or plan on spending the next few weeks caring for your child in his or her dorm room (doubt that would be allowed). This isn’t a head cold. Even young healthy people get very sick from this. How are colleges and universities going to cope with even a small percentage of very sick students - in their health clinics???
@cybpresspat – I’m so sorry your son has been so sick. Yes, it certainly sounds like COVID. Thank you for sharing his story as a reality check for us all. I hope he fully recovers soon!
My 45 yo step-sister, with no underlying conditions and non smoker, just went through similar. She didn’t leave her room for almost 3 weeks in order not to expose her family – except for 2 trips to the doctor. She ended up with double pneumonia but was not hospitalized. It was very scary.
I think anyone who sends college kids back to campus in August – whether to live in dorms (seeming increasingly unlikely?) or apartments while taking online classes need to have a plan to drive them back home – or go to nearby family - if they get sick. It can be way too dangerous to ride this out on their own. Of course that drive, esp. if long, can make transmission to parents pretty high chance too.
I think we all agree COVID is an awful illness. So is scarlet fever, polio, or a myriad of other diseases which routinely occurred in the first half of the 20th century. Our oldest citizens remember when epidemics were commonplace and life continued.
Singapore did close its schools, starting last week after the country was hit with a second wave of infections. Its decision for not closing schools earlier was criticized for contributing to the spread. A similar city, Hong Kong, closed its schools earlier and it fared much better during this second wave.
BTW, we don’t know what universities in other countries will open in the fall. Would Oxbridge be open? UK has been hit as hard as US by the virus.
A couple of thoughts: one, if there is a decent amount of risk, I would guess the colleges’ insurers won’t let them reopen. Liability too great.
I wonder if the posters advocating for reopening in the fall are in areas not that hard hit? I am in a rural area of upstate NY, and I personally know the 3 sick people in my town, as well as the one person who died. I read the reports of the people in their 20’s getting severely ill or dying. Everyone has different risk tolerances, but I personally won’t send my child to college if I think there’s a decent chance he’d get infected with COVID.
I did not say less worthy. I said it doesn’t make sense for everyone to stay home. If you have a child with the flu and they miss school do you expect all the healthy kids to miss school too? Of course not.
Fauci talks about having immunity cards for those that had the virus and survived. You can’t build herd immunity with everyone staying at home.
Like it or not healthy people are going to have to go back to work and school. Sooner would be better than later.
Singapore was hit hard by the second wave of returning citizens (as noted by @INJparent). Extracurricular schools (cram centers, music schools, sports academies, etc) were shut first followed by all schools. Businesses similarly closed as a result of “second wave”.
Hong Kong has also been hit by the second wave and has increased required distancing in restaurants and closed bars amongst other new requirements. I don’t know that authorities in HK see the early school closings as related to the second wave experience although it may have helped in the first wave. The second wave in HK, like Singapore, is primarily related to return of HK citizens (and other travelers) from overseas.
@Cinnamon1212, your child is equally likely to get infected at work, or volunteering, or doing any of the other activities which will reopen even if schools do not. Unless you can lock your teen at home when everyone else is going out this fall, exposure is going to happen.
I agree with you on that. What I would hope administrators would do as a last resort is just plan to make the freshmen courses online rather than delay the school start. Even for engineering most of the classes English, Calc, Computer science can be taught online. The lab courses would have to be delayed. Kids can go to Pearson testing centers to take their exams.
Remember eventually things will return to normal. The deeper the hole we dig for ourselves the longer it will take to get back to normal.
“If those numbers are correct” is the key turn of phrase.
Nobody is pushing a rush to reopening the economy but if there are healthy people out there that are ready and willing to work IMHO we need to start going back to normal in waves instead of cowering in our homes and plannIng for the end of times.
One could say the same about the “sky is falling” attitude about the economy.
Yes, the economy is suffering. We need to take that seriously.
And yes, COVID-19 is killing people and overwhelming our hospitals. We need to take that seriously.
These are not mutually exclusive. There are ways to mitigate the risks to both. Is there a perfect solution? Not in the short term.
But I am comforted by the fact that there are many brilliant minds considering all angles, and who are in a position to make decisions about reopening universities. I am satisfied with the way the governor of my home state of Massachusetts has handled this, as well as the governor of Ohio, where D19’s university (Ohio State) is located. And I am happy that Ohio State, as well as many other universities, have research hospitals and many other subject matter experts who can advise school leadership in their decisions.
Best we can do here is to consider our own family’s risk tolerance, in light of the decisions that will be made.