Also, with all due respect to people who work low-wage jobs, I do think there is quite a difference between being a cafe employee (with usually little personal lifelong investment in being able to do that particular job) and that of being a career educator who had to, you know, earn a PhD., uproot one’s spouse’s career to move to a little college town (where there really aren’t other jobs in the spouse’s intended line of work line OR your own work if you suddenly have to quit the college gig) …and after investing twenty years to build that career and That life (in which you are earning relatively little money compared to the amount you could have earned in industry) you may have to be let go without full retirement benefits because you or your spouse aged out of a high likelihood of faring well in a pandemic.
Not every school is Bowdoin, and not every school can (or does) give professors a full range of options.
Maybe that’s just life, but it kind of stinks. Think about the really fantastic professors your child has benefitted from. These fine, noble folks may become a rare breed if there is less and less incentive to stay in the profession.
I’m thinking about all my hospital worker friends that are in low paying jobs and how they have had no choice but to go to work and some have gotten sick. They didn’t make that choice (to be exposed to a contagious disease) when they got these jobs (assistants, front desk, hospital food service) and they had n no choice to work from home. It’s nice that so many colleges are giving options.
"When colleges like Amherst or Stanford say they appreciate learning on campus and are finding creative ways for that to happen, are you taken aback at that? "
All colleges appreciate learning on campus, that’s not really a disputed point. Stanford though will still offer most undergrad courses online because of the limited space, and with half the campus present, is really not going to offer anything close to the traditional experience. I don’t even know how they’re going to figure out the athletics part of it with half the campus, but we’ll see. If they really appreciated the on-campus experience, wouldn’t they just have everyone back in the fall, things as they were, because that’s what the students signed up for right?
The other issue is that Stanford is in Santa Clara county, the same county I’m in, and the county has been more restrictive than the state up to this point. I can’t see Stanford doing things considered illegal from the county’s point of view, but let’s see.
It does seem as a majority of schools are giving professors options. In the private sector white collar workplace that’s not always the case. For all the Twitter’s out there that are saying work from home forever, there are a lot of other companies that will require employees to be back in person in the office. I’m seeing that start now and while some of these companies are using a phase in approach, the expectation is that by end of summer employees will be back in the office. So it seems professors may have more options than private sector white collar workers.
I work in K-12 education. I am not a classroom teacher but I do work with students, I am fortunate in that my school is very small.
I have no problem returning as long as certain measures are put in place, and I told them exactly what I expect (our union will as well):
a room that is large enough to allow for social distancing
masks worn by everybody over a certain age (I will also wear a face shield)
adequate disinfecting
staggered sessions...AM/PM etc
no sick kids or staff (parents can’t give Tylenol and send in their kids)
no sharing of materials, iPads, etc
minimizing the number of students I see at once (depending on room size)
the ability to keep windows open all year
I don’t expect administration to give me a hard time, especially since many of these rules will likely be put in place by the state, if we reopen. Some schools in this state are already considering full closures from November-February.
I usually take a summer job at a different school, with very disabled kids (a range). If staff is brought back into the building this summer (doubtful but who knows) I will NOT be returning. I don’t think it’s safe yet and I don’t think these districts will have adequate time to devise their plans.
I am 100% in favor of these protests. I am not sure if the covid numbers will increase and how this might impact schools reopening in the fall.
@twogirls My school system is having summer school for kids with disabilities in-person this summer. I don’t know all of the details. I think this is a test run for how schools can open in September.
I think the masking/social distancing/disinfecting protocols will become lax. I’ve read the CDC guidelines, and, quite frankly, don’t think they will be followed for long (not just in my school system, but everywhere).
The very vocal ones who want schools to open seem to out-shout on social media the more conservative ones who are reading information from all over (I am one of the latter). My state has not released any information, other than the same possible scenarios that most places have released.
No strong unions here, so I don’t know how much the staff’s welfare will be taken into consideration. So many people have one of the risk factors!
I am a volunteer for two activities in high schools. I have already decided that I won’t be doing any volunteering in the schools this fall, and possibly not next spring, either.
I have a son attending college. Although my family values the academic aspect of college above all else, his college also provides an “experience” apart from academics that’s second to none in our view. He’d do anything to go back to college in the fall, just to be with his friends. His college hasn’t announced its plan for the fall yet, so we’re preparing for all possibilities. He’s young with no underlying health issue that would worry me. However, I still think the first priority of all colleges should be the health and safety of all their students, faculty and staff, as all of them so claim on their COVID web pages. If the students who feel vulnerable are given the option to attend classes remotely, why shouldn’t the professors who feel vulnerable be given the same option? After all, they have to deal with dozens of socially active students for hours a day, unlike most other white collar workers.
I think allowing students back on campus in the fall is fine if the college can solve the social distancing and quarantine issues. However, many colleges that have announced their plans to allow students back on campus haven’t solved these issues, as far as I can tell. If the virus breaks out on some of these campuses (certainly not a remote possibility), it’s highly likely some of them will have to shut down. All will have to move instructions online. If some professors got sick, could the college find quality substitutes at that time? It’d be almost impossible.
All praises due, @ProfSD! Thank you for some much needed perspective. I’m not an epidemiologist and, so far, no one has come forward on this thread to identify themselves as one. Anybody who says they know how quickly the cases will pile up once a college opens up is lying.
But, I am a student of human nature (aren’t we all?) and my best, totally, unscientific, non-peer-reviewed, opinion is that every college is going to take the most conservative approach they can possibly get away with for the sake of avoiding adverse publicity and civil suits.
For Harvard and Yale, it may mean not opening at all. For Amherst and Bowdoin, it may mean leaning heavily on younger faculty - of which they have plenty - so that they can offer a mix of both distance and classroom learning (so, it puzzles me why @homerdog and @ChemAM are so deeply involved in arguments with professors from other universities?)
I am going to go out on a limb and predict that more campuses, particularly the R1 universities, will resemble Stanford’s hybrid of a physically opened campus but a predominantly distance learning classroom experience than will resemble Amherst and Bowdoin’s.
I haven’t heard anyone say (here or elsewhere) at-risk profs (or K-12 teachers) should be required to work in person.
What schools are not giving profs the choice? That is something that warrants some push back, by faculty and families, IMO.
This actually cuts both ways…some students won’t be able to attend in person classes because they are at risk, or live with someone who is. I hope that they are given latitude to do this, and take any and all classes…including labs and classes that typically require participation/discussion.
This is why I like the colleges which are being smarter about their schedules in terms of course offerings. They are discussing using a ‘team’ approach for many courses which are normally heavily subscribed to, and building in redundancies of faculty to teach the course. For example, Intro Psych…instead of having nine sections taught with one professor each (with normal TA’s etc.), teams of profs have a role in a few different sections (each focusing, with overlap, in a couple different aspects of teaching the course). This way, many profs who wish to remain remote can do so more easily, and those who are ok with in-person can take up that slack for the teaching team.
Downside is fewer courses will be offered in the Fall, but these schools look at this coming semester as the best time to knock out those general distribution requirements. Also, profs used to teaching higher level classes won’t be doing as much of that this Fall. And special attention needs to be on ensuring upperclassmen are getting the courses they require for graduation. It is a different way for profs to be working together, for sure, but this way more can be slotted into a role they can be comfortable with and often is what they are strongest at in terms of teaching. This is among the more clever ideas I have heard discussed by college leadership to get them through the next year. Some profs love this idea; some hate it, by the way.
My son is an entering freshman this fall at MIT, where I also went - and where I value the education and the in-person experience incredibly highly (I loved every minute of that special place). But I’d have to be some kind of sociopath to value the in-person experience over someone else’s LIFE.
The protests will give a very clear picture of spread. We are entering the third week of mass protests and so far no spike in numbers. Especially in NY…all time low!
Maybe heard immunity? weakening virus? time will tell…hopefully this will help us all return to “normal” with less fear.
It is also likely over 90% of the protestors are relatively young, and thus were never at high risk for severe COVID to begin with (Also the case for college students)
The protesters are not distancing, but they are outside and most seem to be wearing masks. NY has set up a bunch of testing centers for the protesters…let’s hope they use them.
Schools are phase 4. I assume we need to successfully get through phases 1-3 in order for schools to open.
If I had a high school junior, I would focus my college search on the places much less affected by the virus with schools opening in the fall. Sadly, the conditions that made the tri-state area and Massachusetts so vulnerable to begin with (high density, public transport) havent changed and will likely continue to be factors in the second wave.
When I first mentioned this people were like but, but their young… Well it seems to be all over the news now that potential spikes due to the protests… Hope that doesn’t happen. Both my kids went in Chicago a few times. They said almost everyone had a mask. They both had ear loop surgical type masks with a cloth mask over that. Just what they wanted to do. They both took showers when they got home. They both have Zinc lozenges at their disposal if they want them and we are having them take a vit c vitamin. Eat decently and both are working out. Wash hands don’t touch your face etc. Other then that not sure what else to do. They are both living lower profile since things are just opening up now. They would rather order out and eat in our backyard (Thai was last night?), then venture our to a restaurant.
I see the decisions they are both making now. My son will be a senior in college and my daughter just graduated. I don’t think he will automatically go rogue once back in college. It’s not who he is anyway. I am pretty sure he will take precautions. Their age group (early 20’s) does have a little bit of fear of the virus. I say good. This will help them remember to take some precautions. Kids have to make smart decisions. There will be some pressure like peer pressure to wear masks when they should be. Not everyone will follow the rules. But as stated asymptomatic cases will caught. It will suck for everyone. Just want my son to have a senior year he will remember. Something tells me he will.
I am reminding myself since I want to order my son some college branded masks. He can use a filter or some blue towel type paper toweling for a filter.
Etsy also had some cool ones. ?.
Oh I think the data shows young protestors will get the virus ( assuming the age was 15 to 35 or so), but they have very little chance of severe complications, and most will be asymptomatic. I think it is only young children, under 12, who seem to not get the virus much.,