@AlwaysMoving Just not the way it works in MA, at all. I’ve read the Governor’s suggestions, they are just that.
I’m highly doubtful that any MA health department in this day and time is going to spend time worrying about a private school when they are trying to open restaurants, companies etc. Please do cite where it states that the MA health dept can close any private school. They have zero jurisdiction. Thanks. I have seen lots of inaccurate press but nothing from MA state.
Doesn’t matter in any case. I know of at least 6 private schools that have sent out info about openings ( BS, Private, College and Universities). And colleges have also made statements. You can look up each college you are interested in. They vary quite a bit.
The only schools in MA that don’t have a return timeline are the public schools.
I actually think this is a big deal. I think random ongoing testing is still a good idea, because those who develop symptoms are considered contagious for two days before becoming symptomatic. But considering that we think a greater % of younger people tend to remain asymptomatic, and the chance of asymptomatic carriers spreading it is low, this should be a good thing for college age populations in terms of them unknowingly infecting others. Goes back to pandemic guidance 101- test, isolate the ill, and trace contacts.
@AlwaysMoving Landlords do not have the right to ban guests.
I never said they could close the colleges. Please go back and reread my statements. @ChemAM mentioned schools being included in Phase 2. I responded to what the governor posted about occupational schools opening in Phase 2. I never said anything was going to be shut down. I said they have released “guidelines” for higher ed. (In fact, I used the term “guidelines” more than once.) Yes, several colleges (including mine) are planning to have students back this fall. But, please read the fine print in all those statements that talk about the willingness and need to possibly change plans. Do you really expect schools to do that if it goes against Baker’s suggestions? What school is going to publicly go against the recommendations of the governor and MA health officials?
It’s June 8. Why is everyone assuming things are set in stone? Faculty at my college have been told to be flexible and prepare for multiple scenarios because we just do not know what the situation will be in 2.5 months. Students and parents can take his earlier statements about reopening as a done deal, but that’s not what Admins are actually telling the faculty in private. It is still early. Best laid plans…
Our state teachers union took a survey of union employees and shared it with us. They asked what our concerns were, what we need to open safely, etc. They will have a seat at the table with all of the officials when they discuss plans for the fall.
I agree it’s early. They are discussing multiple options.
I think colleges and employers in general will have to rely on their workplace communities to evaluate whether they are having symptoms which are out of the normal for themselves, which requires some awareness of one’s own typical physical states. Things like migraines, allergies, etc. that people know themselves to be dealing with have to be separated from symptoms which are not in their usual wheelhouse.
For the record, I am not only a professor at a SLAC in New England, but I have a D20 who plans to attend a different SLAC in the fall. She is very excited to head off to campus late August, although we all realize it will look very different than what she experienced in her visits last year. The virus has obviously changed all that. Although her college has announced plans to reopen in the fall (as many others have), she knows that plan can change at any time.
The problem is, you may not be able to tell an asymptomatic infected person from a presymptomatic infected person. The latter is likely to be most contagious a few days before symptoms show. Remember that superspreading events occurred because someone was infected but well enough to eat in a restaurant, go to work, or sing in a choir.
However, if the goal is to find if someone is contagious (versus infected), the desired test type would be a breath based test that is inexpensive and gives results very quickly, so that students or people going to work can test themselves each day before going to class or work to see if their exhaled breath can cause others to become infected. Asymptomatic people who are not contagious will not show positive on such a test, while those who are contagious will show positive and be alerted not to go to class or work (and self-isolate otherwise).
Of course, we do not have such a test yet, but perhaps that is a worthwhile goal for someone trying to develop useful tests.
Ohio State researchers testing breathalyzer to detect COVID-19
https://news.osu.edu/ohio-state-researchers-testing-breathalyzer-to-detect-covid-19/
If you are referring to the ADA, who will determine if someone has a case or not? Typically that is neither the employee per se nor the employer. And who will determine what is “reasonable”? Some here have suggested that teaching remotely is NOT reasonable if that is not how it would otherwise be done. Others have suggested that fear of getting a disease with such a ‘tiny’ CFR is also not reasonable.
But isn’t it good news in general that someone walking around asymptomatic will likely not shed virus? So that’s fewer people making others contagious.
I think this is a great question. I guess it depends on what type of living arrangement the kid has. If they have a single apartment then either myself or my wife will go and survey for information. We have family not far if needed. He wants to stay at school unless it’s dire. If in a dorm and really not doing well then check on what the school offers. They might have an apartment or “special” dorm for this situation. They might offer to pay for an Arbnb. Or you might decide to get one close to campus to ride it out . As a last resort (in my mind), the kid comes home. Hopefully they won’t need hospitalization.
That is at least my thinking on it.
Latest study find no asymptomatic spread! This will make a big difference in the fall.
Since most of the world was teaching online in the past few months, it boggles the mind that any folks could consider such a practice unreasonable, particularly for a older faculty member with co-morbidities, or even a young faculty member with disabilities. Online/virtual teaching is definitely not ideal, but it is certainly reasonable.
But sure, ‘fear’ in a ~25-year-old otherwise healthy individual ain’t gonna cut it.
But in addition to ADA, which doesn’t cover every employee, OSHA does. To wit, employers have a legal obligation to provide a safe and healthy workplace. And they can comply in many ways; when it comes to classroom teaching, online is just one possibility.
btw: much to the possible chagrin of some of the faculty members on this thread, OSHA does not consider schools in the top risk category, i.e., Very High Risk. (“Schools” which I assume include colleges, but may not, are in the Medium risk category. Obviously, that could change with new info.)
Why does the cost of the college have anything to do with it? It will suck at any school at any price. If people can’t afford the college or going for prestige then they shouldn’t go to that college.
Yeah, I don’t get that either. If parents don’t like it, the kid can transfer. OTOH, I’d guess that most parents would be happy to know that their COVID-exposed kid is being well taken care of…
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. I’m going to put this in bold, because it’s very important.
**WHO says that people can spread the disease before they get symptoms.
WHO says people who will never get symptoms very rarely spread the disease.**
So then, the problem is obvious. Someone is standing in front of you. They haven’t got any symptoms, but you think they might have been exposed to covid and could be infected. Are you safe from being infected by them?
Nope. You are not safe. They might not have covid. Then they can’t infect you. They might have covid, but such a mild case that they aren’t going to develop any symptoms. Then they are very unlikely to infect you. Or they might have covid and be going to develop serious symptoms tomorrow. Then they can breathe on you and infect you right now, before they get sick. There’s no way to know!
The WHO guidance in question is linked here:
https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak
This is purely anecdotal but I just had a lengthy conversation with a friend whose son just graduated from Univ of S. Carolina. He and his friends stayed in their off campus apartments spring semester. She told me her son just found out recently he is presumptive positive for COVID. Why? Because a large group of kids drove to Charleston and spent a weekend (?) at the beach together. He was in a car with five kids. Afterward, at some point, one tested positive for COVID. As a result, after his roommate exhibited symptoms, his roommate got tested. While waiting for roommate’s results, my friend’s son’s doctor told him (he had mild symptoms), that if his roommate’s test came back positive, then he should assume he is also positive.
She said her son told her someone (I’m not sure who and I didn’t ask) had compiled a list of who had COVID and there were **70 **U of SC kids on it. She said her son assumed that it was actually more than that as his name was not on the list and he figures there are others like him who are presumptive positive.
Were all these kids completely asymptomatic? I have no idea. I didn’t ask. None of my friend’s son’s friends have been terribly sick as far as she knows. It’s possible they had mild symptoms but ignored them and hung out with friends anyway. Either way, it certainly did not bode well for expecting (all) college kids to follow social distancing guidelines. Their group on the beach was large enough that at some point the cops came and broke up their gathering.
I"m not saying that it helps anyone know that someone who looks healthy can’t infect them. It’s true that someone who hasn’t developed symptoms yet can spread the virus so this doesn’t make it so that anything really changes in protocol. What it does change, though, is the chance that asymptomatic people spread it. So, you still be careful but it’s less likely that the person who looks healthy in front of you will give you the virus.
A simple “I don’t think so” or “no” would have been sufficient.