Even if a vaccine or much more effective treatments are available next spring, they are unlikely to be available sufficiently before the beginning of the spring semester that they can be planned for.
@marrast sounds good! See, all, some schools are trying to make sure kids have some sort of life outside of the classroom. I think it can be done.
homerdog wrote: »
@CTTC all students have to isolate for 7-10 days?? No way. Sorry. Who is going to agree to that? Gap year. Or take remote class from home. Big, urban schools having a lot of trouble with this
@homerdog It’s entirely possible that the state of Maine might require a similar period of isolation at its colleges and universities for incoming students, based on other regulations that it has put into effect recently. Why is this such a deal breaker? Would your son not return to Bowdoin because of this requirement? People who travel are supposed to isolate upon their arrival in many states. There are elderly folks in retirement communities or long term care facilities that have been confined to their rooms for months. Being alone is not pleasant. But for these students, it’s finite. And if it’s for the greater good of keeping campus open and reducing disease transmission, it seems like a small price to pay.
Speaking more generally, sure, colleges are businesses and must balance liability, costs, and profits. But beyond the cynicism voiced by many here and in the media, we should also recognize that most faculty and administrators employed at colleges and universities are sincerely motivated by their educational mission and want to deliver the best possible teaching under unpredictable and difficult conditions. Most are not in it for the money. I know many people employed in academia and they have been working 24/7 since mid March to figure out how to teach well within the constraints COVID-19 has set. There are faculty posters on this thread who have spoken eloquently about the challenges and risks ahead and the hard work that is required.
There is no one size fits all solution. When we move out of the bubble of elite, expensive, residential colleges, there are lower income students for whom online education poses excessive barriers to learning. They may not have a safe or healthy home environment. They might lack stable internet access. They might be trying to complete course assignments on a cell phone. They need face to face education to maximize their success. There are other lower income students for whom online is the preferred option because they have family or work responsibilities that can’t be reconciled by showing up to class three times a week at 11 am. The uncertainties of COVID-19 increase these limits tenfold. State schools are likely to be balancing less privileged students like these with OOS students that are paying a premium and expect a certain kind of experience. There are multiple preferences to be juggled. I don’t envy the folks that have to make those decisions.
To get back to the topic at hand, COVID-19 is everywhere. A college classroom building is probably no more or less dangerous than an office building of similar size and complexity. A socially distanced dining hall with food served by workers behind plexiglass is probably no more dangerous than a privately owned restaurant that is similarly configured at similar capacity. Dorm living (minus communal bathrooms) probably carry similar risks to apartment buildings. What is beyond the control of colleges are the super spreader events where social distancing and mask wearing are ignored. However, if your student avoids such events and follows the rules, chances are much less likely that they will contract COVID even if they come into masked, socially-distanced contact with an irresponsible contagious classmate. Nobody can control what others will do. But individuals can control their own behavior and that can make a difference. And that’s what parents and students should be focusing on.
A runner can abide by the spirit (if not the letter) of isolation by running alone in uncrowded areas while otherwise doing the usual avoidance of contact with others.
To me "isolate’ means staying in your room/home and never leaving - unless you have a private backyard where you won’t be near anyone else. Not the case in college, so not sure what they mean by "Isolate’.
@homerdog Dr. Hatch also spoke to the benefits of having a medical school and hospital system associated with the university in terms of planning and providing both preventative and active medical care to students.
Our city has been conducting swim team practice since 6/1. The public schools started off-season group athletic training last week in preparation for fall sports. Most people have moved on from covid so it’s so strange to see all this discussion around safety protocols. (And yes, IMO, we’ve gone too far with easing restrictions. Time will tell…)
Are you saying that students will be justified in returning to campus intending to flout the rules, or that they are unjustified but we must expect irresponsible students not to follow the rules?
Are you saying that Bowdoin shouldn’t require any student to isolate? Or that athletes are special and should be exempt from the isolation rules?
@mamaedefamilia the Maine quarantine upon arrival rule has been gone for a while. I just do not think it’s feasible to have all kids in their rooms inside for ten days. If they do pull that off, do you all think that makes it less likely that the virus will spike there? Would that work at a residential rural college? I don’t see how it would make a difference at Berkeley with those dorm kids mixing with thousands of off campus kids as soon as they leave the dorm.
And now I’m confused about isolation. Some here saying it’s in your room and no where else and others saying you can leave and go outside as long as you’re alone? Guess colleges will have to be ve try clear.
@TheVulcan wrote:
Depends on how you define, caution. Some very wealthy urban universities can’t, as in - cannot - fit all of their students on campus at one time during a pandemic and probaby will not have that ability in the near future. Not without a major capital campaign to retrofit their outdated “house” systems. Calling that major FAIL, “caution”, is like calling erectile dysfunction a form of contraception.
An idea being talked about here is having high school students go remote learning and using the high school facilities for additional elementary/middle school space in order to dedensify the spaces.
Re: athletics and return to play, athletic departments are working on protocols for student athletes that might not be identical to those for the general student population but are based on similar principles.
For XC in particular, the approach generally seems to be a phase in from individual to small training group to team setting, with the assumption that group training will resume with some restrictions (changes to weight room, locker room, training room procedures, keeping groups small where possible, etc.). Competitive athletes are pretty good at adapting and will be fine. Most coaching and performance staffs have done a great job adapting training so far as well.
I think it’s a mistake to look at a communication to all students at a school like UCB and assume that the general language captures the nuance that is necessary for every subgroup. The XC kids will know what they need to know, the lab assistants will know what they need to know. Parents of kids at other schools probably don’t need to get involved.
Does anyone else think that students who are not athletes will be angry that student-athletes will get (apparently) special dispensations that other students don’t get? I’d be furious if I had to stay in my room for two weeks, but the cross-country runner in the room next door got to go out running every day. Maybe I’d like to go out for a hike every day.
Hmm…I think this probably depends on the school and the culture there. My daughter says most students have laptops or ipads but there are also many computers around campus and with a student id students can check them out from the library. I also think all these details are being worked out and not all were given in this announcement. There is more information coming. Maybe there is some other technology being used for them to watch the lectures - I was just guessing about the laptops.
These open classrooms for the mid-sized classes are also optional for those who want to attend. I think a lot of kids will skip them because they’d rather “attend class” on their own time. If a student does want to attend without a laptop/ipad and doesn’t want to rely on sharing a laptop for viewing in class or continually checking one out from the library, I think there are things the school can do to help them get one. There was a story this spring about how the school helped get a tower installed for a rural student so she could get internet access to do her remote classes from home (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=9aGEghQZh_k). Rice is a small school and they are pretty conscious about removing barriers, especially during these crazy times. They have a department called “Student Success Initiatives” that does a lot of work with low income students.
Nope. I didn’t say any of that! I’m just saying that all of these rules are going to be a big shocker to the kids and they need to wrap their brains around it. Don’t you think that’s going to be difficult? I talk to S about this every day - warning him with examples from schools that have already posted. Told him he could be in a mask all day long except for his room, might not be able to have anyone in his room or go to anyone’s room, food might be take out only, quarantine for 14 days alone in a room could happen if he’s infected. His eyes glossed over at first. He couldn’t believe those could be the rules when everyone he knows from school, all across the country, are not living like that at all. He’s coming around. Of course I expect him to follow all of the rules.
Random thoughts/observations on American University’s plan:
–I know DC is just slowly moving out of SIP, I think they move to Phase 2 Monday which includes small group gatherings, indoor dining at 50%, nail salons and tattoo parlors by appt among other things. Based on articles and photos in the Washington Post, many people seem to be outdoors without masks and with spotty social distancing. American’s campus is not self-contained so I think there might be some boundary blurring with AU’s order to wear a mask on campus at all times, even outdoors, unless you can maintain 6 ft. Especially important to be careful as I believe students can be disciplined for improper masking.
–Not in our personal plan to have our soph living off campus, but for a variety of reasons we decided that rather than have him stay home in our rural town (where he was seriously unlikely to take 100% online courses), we would enable him to live in a DC studio. He is overall happier in the city, even with some restrictions/closures and 50%
online classes. He is planning on a part time job and bringing his cat. I am a little worried about him living alone but he is kind of a lone wolf anyway, just his style. We did have to sign a year lease, which is then renewable month-to-month. He will probably take a summer class or two anyway. If study abroad is back in Spring 2022, we will likely just extend through Dec 2021.
–Many other displaced upperclassmen who have decided to return and get apartments are living in groups of 2-6. Perhaps a quaranteam, perhaps not. S’s apartment is .5 mile from campus (so an easy walk or bike), but many others are a bus/metro away. I believe masks are required on DC public transit but still, the level of exposure is creeping up for many off campus kids.
–Aside from housing, parents and students seem most upset by the intense social isolation it seems the campus guidelines are promoting. All freshmen in singles, no going to anyone else’s room, dining room distanced and by reservation only, some students by chance will have 100% online classes and most contact will be through Zoom. Yes, while the weather is nice maybe a few kids can sit under a tree 6 feet apart without masks. But it is unclear whether students who live on campus can leave campus. Can they visit someone off campus (a parent or friend)? Athletes seem to be allowed to practice, don’t know what that looks like though.
–A lot of people mad that there is no discount on tuition. And that even kids staying home and attending online have to pay activity fees for activities they can’t use. Though for on campus housing, students living in singles that used to be doubles pay the double rate which is a bit cheaper than the single rate (though apparently the hotel option being offered is quite a bit more expensive than typical on campus housing).
–I hope that if restrictions in DC continue to lift, restrictions on campus might ease as well, but this is unclear.
I am “judging” no one. I am making observations on what has been posted.
Campus life in fall 2020 will not be like campus life was in fall 2019. So, runners may not be able to run, theater kids may not be able to act, and dancers may not be able to dance as they did in 2019. If they are luck, they may be able to be on campus and have some semblance of a campus life, and hopefully subsequent semesters will get better.
Any when the situation does get better (2021?), as we all hope it will, then all the runners can run all day, all the actors can emote all day, and all the dancers can dance the day away… 
Is there nobody on his XC team at Bowdoin that’s from the NY Metro area? It’s hard to be from the NY Metro area and not know anyone who has been infected with covid.
No university can. Some are just pushing some students off-campus, whether in university-rented hotel rooms or on their own in private apartments - an approach MIT explicitly ruled out during their deliberations for a number of reasons.
Further, MIT explicitly stated that under any of their considered scenarios (that for a while included full return on campus) “everything that can be taught effectively online will be taught online”, while many other schools promise in-person instruction.
I mean, it is really easy to see what is going on, folks. There really are two distinct possibilities here:
- everyone but "some very wealthy urban universities" knows what they are doing
- only "some very wealthy urban universities" can afford to announce anything less than a full reopening
I don’t mean to be nosey, but is there a Mr. Homerdog?