My daughter ate dinner in Manhattan this past weekend…she and her friend wore a mask the entire time except when they were eating. After dinner they went for a walk and saw young adults outside bars without a mask. These were all young twenty somethings.
It’s just a matter of time before campuses close.
@twogirls I live in Manhattan, and sadly, what your daughter saw is what I see every weekend all around the borough. I was happy to see that indoor dining will not be starting on July 6th.
Social distancing in college classrooms doesn’t necessarily get you to 50% room capacity. In some it’s more like 30%. Where will the other 2/3 go? Are students going to have to take turns being in the classroom? I can envision in person classes that are only in person for a particular student 1/3 of the time.
I think there are going to be problems enforcing rules and employing consequences. Discussions to clarify rules that are followed by reminders that are then followed by a formal process for suspension will create a process that’s too long and will come too late for all the people who could be infected by students who aren’t taking the issue seriously.
To the parent of the Purdue freshman who didn’t have housing (sorry, lost your username): It seems as if many housing sublets are being done on the colleges’ student and parent Facebook groups…you might have better luck there finding an off campus spot for your son, with roommates. Good luck!
@socaldad2002 , as for how we would feel if our child made a mistake, say went to a frat party and contracted covid and was sent home (meaning made to leave on-campus schooling as a consequence, not sent home for treatment/quarantine), I personally would be OK with it. I feel like being on campus this fall is a gift or a privilege, and could change at any moment anyway and still might change before school starts. I hope that kids view it this way…the privilege of being on campus means playing by the rules. But also, being sent home is such a large possibility anyway, regardless of each student’s behavior. (Also I realize that many do not consider on-campus with all the restrictions a gift, but I am speaking for my kids and those who do view it that way. Yes, overall it is a huge disappointment and the worst “gift” ever, but in today’s reality, that is how we are viewing the possibility of being on campus at all).
It seems that many colleges are contracting with local hotels. One of the above posts mentioned that a hotel with 200+ beds would be used by the college for isolation. Who is going to be cleaning there? I hope not the hotel’s regular cleaning services who will just be given a mask and gloves. I hope the hotel will hire a specialized cleaning service that is more familiar with dealing with contaminated areas. The hotel is being turned into a sick ward, and I wonder if the relevant state will recognize the change and regulate it as such? I just worry that some poor, minimum wage, probably immigrant, worker at the hotel could end up cleaning in infected areas and then bring it home to themselves and their families, many of whom live in dense housing.
TBH, I didn’t think Yale would announce detailed plans before Wesleyan did; as others have noticed, they were probably never in danger of losing a lot of students to gap years. Again, I’m struck by how much all these decisions are being driven by the ability to house students in single rooms; the virus has literally pulled back the covers to reveal each college’s capacity to do so. In Yale’s case it was about 60% of the campus. Surprisingly low:
My county just enacted an emergency order that face masks are required in public areas. A local newspaper quoted a professor of infectious diseases at our state med school (Dr. Michael Saag at UAB) as saying that use of masks and physical distancing will reduce the rate of transmission by 50%.
That’s the first time I’ve heard a number attached to the distancing/face masks, and I’m shocked that the number isn’t much higher. If that number is anywhere near the correct number, then I just don’t see how colleges will be able to remain open.
Our county health officer also said that he’s concerned about schools opening up in the Fall, but for now he’s leaving that off the table. (I think in hopes of the face mask requirement significantly reducing our numbers).
I know it’s been mentioned previously, especially in connection with NY State), about how colleges have to open pursuant to state requirements. But it’s occurring to me that the County has authority here too.
Oh boy
My daughter called it. Haverford was supposed to release the details of their fall plans today. Instead the students got an email saying the details will come out tomorrow instead. She isn’t particularly enjoying the response from the top at her school. There is also parent chatter about gap years and such for the first time.
@milgymfam I wonder if they’re tweaking based on the plan Swarthmore released yesterday. It’s a little harder for Haverford since they’re so intertwined with Bryn Mawr. The two colleges really have to offer consistent plans. (I’m a Haverford alum.)
I don’t know that there have been any covers to pull back. College typically make their housing information publicly available. For example, here’s MIT’s housing grid:
@TS0104 the student is not on FB (that’s for old people LOL);… huh I didn’t think about the parent fb group. Hmm that’s a good idea.
Reducing the rate of transmission by 50% is huge. Remember that transmission is exponential. If you reduce the base by 50%, you can stop an outbreak (in many cases).
Suppose social distancing and no masks gets us to an R of 1.6; on average one person infects 1.6 other people. Then, starting with 10 infected people, in the eighth cycle of infection (a month or so) you have 10 * 1.6^8 = 429 infected.
Suppose we then add masks, so that R is now 0.8. Now, starting with 10 infected people, in the eighth cycle of transmission you have 10* 0.8^8 or 2 people infected.
So, 429 people infected, or two? I prefer two.
As far as on campus testing goes…how fast can you test 500+ kids (all in one day?) and get the results back? The fastest I’ve seen is about 12 hrs for a pre-surgery screen…test at 11:30am and results at midnight. Will schools have this type of turnaround time?
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I see no scenario where it is safer for kids to be living on campus. Not saying we wouldn’t necessarily be willing to take that chance, if D20’s school invited her to reside there, but I think you might be putting too much faith in the school’s ability to successfully execute protocols and students’ adherence to recommendations.
@vpa2019 my daughter has gotten her test results same-day each time. It must be possible?
Some students (particularly international students) may have travel difficulties getting back to campus. Some students may not care for a highly restricted on-campus experience that many colleges are planning for. Some students may be non-traditional students who may have to stay home to handle increased family duties.
The Abbott ID NOW system is a rapid test, so results in 15 minutes or so. Many physicians offices already have the machine as other tests can be run on it. This is a test to detect current infection, not an antibody test. https://www.abbott.com/IDNOW.html
My understanding is a number of colleges are buying these machines, and the related testing supplies. But, some colleges are choosing to do their own in-house testing instead.
However, it probably does not take that many being risky to keep the virus spreading around campus. Also, even those who are trying to be safe may not know how to properly minimize risk.
@vpa2019 I just saw an ad for a local place that is offering 45 minute results. Not sure if reliability is impacted by this rapid turnaround, but if not - 45 minutes could be a game changer.
I know my extended family is talking about everyone getting tested (and isolating, as necessary) so that we might gather for the Jewish high holidays.
I was surprised Yale announced this morning also. Thought they would wait until after the holiday weekend.
Are you surprised at how many double rooms Yale has? I don’t know the distribution, and configurations vary massively both across residential colleges and even within entryways of a specific college. Sometimes I think Yale created the internal layout based on how the windows would look from the outside!
Almost all First Years live in tiny double bedrooms, with typically two doubles then sharing a very spacious common room. Sophomores usually end up in suites with a mix of singles and doubles. By Jr & Sr years, most students are in singles within a suite. Since all First Years and sophomores live on campus with many in doubles, I see why they singled out those years as the ones spending an academic term off campus: fewest moves and quickest way to achieve the desired lower density.
That 60% figure also contemplates some students not returning to campus.
Historically, 75% of Jrs and 60% of Srs have lived on campus.
I was surprised they are allowing three classes to return.