California community colleges cost about $1.5k in-state tuition for an academic year’s worth of course work (30 semester or 45 quarter credit units). Books are typically estimated at another $1-2k. Of course, then the student also has living and commuting costs, although many families with students living at home pretend that these are $0 instead of some thousands of dollars that food, utilities, and commuting for the student typically cost.
@homerdog I’m curious how you know this. Can you provide sources? That’s not what I’m hearing from colleagues at other institutions. As I mentioned previously, most institutions have expectations and various guidelines faculty need to follow, even if they’re not going through an outside firm. Bowdoin is not special in this regard. Most agree we can’t have a repeat of the spring, and are putting measures in place to make sure this fall is different.
Really tired of people acting as if professors are approaching this fall on a wing and a prayer, without any clue to what they’re doing and oversight by the college. The rampant speculation by those outside the academy is annoying.
And yes, I understand that by nature speculation is part of this thread. But, can we at least ground that speculation in facts? (College plans, Covid numbers, sports announcements, student plans for returning or not returning to campus, etc.) For the most part, posters really don’t know what training and support faculty at their college are (or are not) getting. Unless a college or university is in the news, posters have even less knowledge of what training and support are occurring at other institutions.
Really, the schools are not giving definitive plans for the most part, so every post that states “my school is doing …” that is not 100% online is pure speculation. The vast majority of college plans on their covid landing pages ARE speculative. There is so much room for walking it all back.
TWIV cited Colby’s plans, I know nothing about this school other than that is smaller that many (most?) high schools, and boy are they going to hate that publicity. Journos now listen to TWIV.
"Keith writes: (email to twiv)
My daughter will be returning to Colby College in the fall and (see below) they will be testing everyone prior to arrival and then twice per week during the semester along with other measures. Looks like a very sensible plan.
Why can’t others do this?
—keith "
This plan: 85,000 COVID-19 tests in its first semester
Because Keith, math.
Texas A&M University 69,367 students.
Your kid’s college this fall? Less than 2000. Critical thinking skills are such a problem.
Rather than another stimulus package could we spend the money on ramping up test availability? It seems to me if there was enough and rapid testing it could be a game changer to keep schools open and the economy moving. If we manufactured ventilators at record pace last spring, couldn’t we do the same with testing? Test, test, test and isolate…couldn’t that be our answer until a vaccine?
Not sure I understand. don’t teachers usually teach multiple weeks in a row through the year?
^^We do need more rapid testing. But when the claims (both false) are that we tested more people per capita than anywhere else in the world and we have more confirmed cases because we tested too much, how can we rationally have a national strategy and purpose for more testing? Without a national effort, we’re highly unlikely to have sufficient testing capabilities across the country for all schools to reopen in the fall. Our contact tracing and isolation capabilities are also woefully inadequate and many announced fall plans by the colleges fail to address that inadequacy.
Purdue is requesting every student who can be tested in their home state so so within 3 weeks of returning to campus. They will pay for the test if it’s not free or covered by a student’s insurance. They also announced they can run 1,000 tests/day through on campus labs. Results in 48 hours. They are currently working to partner with lab corp or cvs if they need to process more. If a student is positive they can’t move in and start classes until there is a negative result. We are encouraging D to test early in the window just in case and then she can quarantine at home for 14 days and not miss the start of classes.
Also, in our neck of the woods, Northwestern announced a 3.5% tuition increase. As you can imagine, they are getting a ton of bad press.
Wow, and they have a huge endowment, right?
Yep. Over 11 billion endowment.
Now I’m speculating what @homerdog is thinking, but a quick follow on Twitter of many Middlebury professors in various departments (English, Film Studies, Physics) reveals that many full departments are going online. You can do the same for other schools that are going fully in person. I haven’t done research apart from NESCACs/Dartmouth/small schools (those are what will be most relevant to me), but it’s not too hard to find if you look. Many disgruntled profs are very open on their plans, their college’s instructions, etc.
Elon announced pre-pandemic that it was raising tuition and room/board by 3.7% this year. There was been no discussion of rolling that back.
A lot of the reopening/testing info posted here has been from elites. Here’s what’s happening at CU Boulder regarding testing:
On campus students will need to have a PCR test within 5 days prior to moving into the residence halls. A limited number will be available for those who can’t get one at home. (Don’t know what that limited number is.)
Right now there is no testing policy for students living off-campus.
There will be wastewater monitoring across campus with a focus on dorms.
Note that 75% of CU’s students live off campus. Also, asymptomatic testing is very difficult to get in CO.
@ProfSD yes, sorry, I am speculating. But are your college’s remote classes going to be consistent across all majors? Are there expectations from the deans as to how professors need to run their classes with x amount of synchronous class time? Could students watch a town hall (if there were one) and the dean could present exactly how students can expect all of their classes to look this semester? Is each class you are teaching available on different days at different time slots do that kids in different time zones will all get the same amount of synchronous time? For example, each class at Bowdoin doesn’t have normal day and time slots anymore. One class might be M 10-12, W 1-3, F 6pm-8pm. That’s more time than usual and students do not sign on for the whole time but can be divided up by time zone and go to three hours of those six that works for them. It is complicated but it lets kids all over the world take whatever class they want and it doesn’t limit them to taking classes that work for them time-wise.
I honestly think most classes will end up remote at most schools. Everyone I know is saying that their kids classes are slowly being moved from in person to remote. For those students at schools that currently have in person or hybrid classes, how will those look if switched to remote? I’m betting they won’t look like a remote class that has planned as remote to begin with.
My understanding is that online learning is very different than in person learning. What was done in the spring was trying to deliver in person classes remotely. This time, Bowdoin is delivering real remote classes and using best practices for that type of learning. For example, they learned that any lecture over 20 minutes makes an online disengage. So all professors are asked to keep their lectures in these short chunks. Classrooms will be flipped. If it makes sense for the class, students will watch x number of video lectures before class and then class is synchronous with very small groups put into pods to discuss and the prof can “dip into” each pod to answer and/or discuss. That’s just one example and works for certain types of class subjects with likely 25 kids or less. Study groups are also assigned (for STEM classes) because that’s how students best study for these classes. The kids will determine a time that works for them to get together and then have time each week to work with the prof as a small group.
Do I think this adds up to an experience that is just like a total in person experience before Covid? Of course not. I wish S19 was on campus with in person classes but not with this virus and the limited info, testing, therapeutics we have right now. Well run remote classes are likely going to prove to be the best option out of a list of not great options for now.
Well, ProfSD, it’s true parents shouldn’t assume that no professors anywhere are training and preparing this summer to deliver higher quality distance education in the fall. Similarly, you cannot conclude that just because you and your friends aren’t approaching the semester “on a wing and a prayer” that professors and schools everywhere are being as diligent.
First, schools have been watching the progression of the virus in their individual areas and making only TENTATIVE plans accordingly. Last week there was some significant tide turning in the pandemic news–the same week some schools first announced their plans and then many walked back aspects of those newly announced plans within a day or two. Not much is set in stone yet, which has to be impacting the ability to prepare. Secondly, many schools are now starting classes 2 weeks early, which will reduce professors’ prep time. Third, do professors’ contracts include hours and hours of extra COVID-19 planning meetings and training in the summer? I doubt it. If not, are all unions agreeing to allow members to work more? If not, are extra funds being paid out to compensate faculty? Do all schools have the funds and willingness to pay out additional wages? Are you sure this is happening everywhere?
My D’s school is a great little LAC, but judging by what I saw, professors are handling their classes as they each see fit. Some will do that well, and some will not. Faculty in our country have traditionally been allowed quite a bit of freedom. Has that changed? Are you saying your employer is dictating exactly how you will teach this fall? How many ftf hours, how many zoom instructional or office hours, how many allowable hours of assigned youtube videos etc.?
I think instead of beating up on a valuable CC member who just happens to be a professor is childish. He stated what he /his school is doing. 1 school. Not all schools are lacs.
Some schools have a plan https://ai.umich.edu/
I know many teachers and some professors and they are all learning new technology and coming up with course work in many different formats. Maybe we should have a better appreciation for what “they” are going through also and not little Johnny that he might have to do something different this year. It’s hard for everyone,not just your children.
@knowstuff I’m not at all beating up on @ProfSD or any other prof. I’m just saying that schools planning in-person or hybrid classes that will likely switch to remote are doing their profs a disservice. They won’t be able to switch to a remote platform very easily if it’s not planned up front.
@homerdog , my S19’s school (Elon) has posted information about filtration and air systems: Ventilation and Filtration
"Physical Plant is increasing ventilation and filtration in every university building. Engineering staff are evaluating each building to determine increases in ventilation. To aid in the removal of airborne viral particles, staff are also shifting to the highest rated filters possible. Building by building ventilation and filtration adjustments are being made to:
increase the ventilation as much as possible,
shift to the highest MERV rate filter possible to aid in the removal of airborne viral particles, continue to operate the building system within its design capacity,
maintain building humidity at a 40% – 60% level as recommended."
They have also stated that drawings of the 6 foot physically distanced classrooms will be available on their Planning/Construction website in Mid July.
As for the gap year discussion, I think we can all agree that this depends so much on each student: Their personality, their school’s plans, which year they are, their major, the opportunities available, the finances, family health situation. My D17 has been back and forth about gapping a few times, and now that it is too late (rented a house near campus, LA so very expensive), wishes she would have gapped. As an incoming senior and Theater major, she’s thinking about the projects that she missed last spring and would have had during her senior year that will be impossible now (would they be possible in 2021? unknown). The stakes feel much higher for her as a senior deciding about her final year. IMO she is bound to have regrets either way on this decision. Probably many of our kids will. S17 hasn’t considered a gap year, but as a sophomore not in a performance major, the stakes seem lower. Also his school seems to be more likely to have more in person. Neither of them love online classes, but do better with them than my high schooler! Both of the college kids are ready to go back though, even if it means to their house/dorm to do all online classes. They won’t love that either, but for now it feels like the best choice out of several not great options.
What I’m hearing from my colleagues is that faculty are being given the option to choose their method of course delivery, but they’re also creating alternate plans in case they have to pivot mid-semester. Part of the planning has to include anticipating the myriad ways students can cheat and trying to find ways to prevent that from happening. Just because a college announces one plan doesn’t mean they don’t have a backup plan and alternate plans for the backup.
@austinmshauri Sure. Just seems like a lot more work for faculty to have to plan for in-person class to start and then plan for the back up plans. Developing an online course isn’t the same and doing it well takes time.