Unless a rapid tests almost useless. Especially to wait that long. Unless your isolating till you get the result.
We call all patients now prior to their visits to my office with a list of covid questions. One is about being with someone that tested positive. A patient that is a teacher had a student test positive on Monday. She got tested on Tuesday. Unless she walks in with a negative test and has been in isolation, I won’t see her (elective type doctor). But can do a video call tomorrow if she doesn’t get her results. So this is the reality. Will this teacher have to keep getting tested every time a student,their family members test positive? Hope they have plenty of sub teachers in hand.
@privatebanker , yes. But when it comes to one’s “children,” it’s difficult to think in those terms. And then, of course, there’s the issue of those younger people who are not likely to suffer serious health consequences from infection still spreading it among the gen pop, and making this damned thing drag out forever. Again, we can’t even keep adults from putting themselves and others at risk because it’s just too inconvenient for them to wear a mask and maintain proper distancing.
And not all underlying conditions are obvious–until they become obvious.
Davidson had a town hall tonight – here are a few highlights
– masks required everywhere and restrictions around gatherings, including in dorms. That said, they are being creative to create social programming for students that are held outside and virtually. Will encourage student groups to be active and creative.
– many hybrid classes and some online only. Profs got to decide format they want.
–staggered class schedules and reduced density. Masks worn by students in class too. Faculty wearing masks or face shields.
– grab and go dining and reducing seating in dining halls.
– all students tested b4 they arrive on campus.
– daily symptoms tracking through an app and consults with nurse if anything arises
– quarantine housing and testing if symptoms merit. Have contracted with a test provider and anticipate tests back in about 2 to 3 days,.
– anyone positive is enrolled in ‘virtual hospital’ through local health system to meet their needs. There’s a doctor on loan to oversee all this
– if a roommate tests positive, the remaining student stays in their room and isolates for two weeks and switches to online classes – just getting a negative test isn’t sufficient b/c of incubation period.
– all hybrid classes also available online for students in quarantine
– if a student decides they are no longer are comfortable attending a class, they can switch to online anytime
– lots of focus on community expectations and accountability
– finally, working with frats and eating houses to encourage them to emphasize service projects this semester b/c parties will not be allowed. Lots of talk here about serving the local community, encouraging voter registration, etc.
All in all seems like a decent plan. Fingers crossed!
Saw my cardiologist today (good report). He wears two masks, the N95 and another cloth one covering it. He said the medical one covering the N95 is used to keep the N95 mask as clean as possible because they’re still having to wear them for a week due to supply shortages. We’re in Tampa. He spends a lot of time in the hospitals and says they are at full capacity, canceling elective surgeries and are taking on lots of covid patients.
Our school system is the 9th largest district in the US. I just don’t see how we can go back to K-12 until we’ve got this well under control. He was saying we can’t have teachers getting N95 masks when the doctors need them (and don’t have enough). Not a bad point.
We’re scheduled to go back in three weeks. Wife teaches 1st grade. At the very least we should delay the school yr for a month. What harm would that do (not shorten it, just push it back until after Labor Day and extend into June). We’re not even close to controlling this thing in FL. It would be like telling NYC they had to reopen the schools this past April.
My university is saying that faculty must wear masks, not just face shields, to teach, even if we are significantly more than 6 feet away from students (for instance, at a podium in the front of a large lecture class). Classrooms are being retrofitted to add mics around the room so that the professor and students can be heard with masks.
@AlmostThere2018 rooting for Davidson! Roommate of a positive case having to isolate for 14 days sounds safe but a huge bummer. Kids are going to catch the virus. I hope everyone going back is mentally prepared to spend two weeks straight in their rooms. At a lot of schools with kids in dorms, there’s a good chance that many kids are going to have to face that reality.
I am sure there will be challenges, but they will manage them, just as the kids at home will have to as well. The mental health and development of all of them will be in for a rocky semester, but they can persevere. Such is life.
Fully understand that the vast majority of kids say 14 and under won’t have serious, if any, symptoms. But I have not seen any research that they are less likely to become infected and/or capable of spreading the virus if they become carriers. I was hopeful about a month ago when it was implied that asymptomatics were less likely infect others but then that claim was backtracked. Right now most kids come in contact with few other kids and spend Time primarily with their families who can control their environment. If I use that Georgia tech model For my county of 3.5 million with its current 7 day infection rate , there is about a 30% chance that in a group of 10, some one will be infected with covid. I can’t do the math to quantify the opportunity for further community spread resulting from thousands of school kids being iN the classroom, but those 8 year olds bringing it to school or to home have Parents and other family members who they don’t socially distance from who are statistically far more likely to get ill if infected than the elementary and middle schoolers themselves. It’s not the kids getting sick that is the worry (at least for me), it’s their further contribution to the rampant spread to the community not to mention to the teachers and staff. My brain hurts thinking about how a first grade teacher teaches while making sure the kiddos don’t pick their noses, hug their friends, and share their crayons, all day, while trying to discourage the the antimask parents from arranging the class picnic at the park after school. I wouldn’t look at things so bleakly if the infection trends were going in the right direction but they are absolutely terrible in many parts of the country.
On a webinar for incoming Tufts students a week or two ago, President Monaco said they thought the cost would be $25 per test. That seemed like a lot to me already, when they’re planning to test all students twice a week. But the cost was not presented as a huge concern.
The numbers for the kids, healthy young people are not what is causing the debate in opening the schools. Kids bring back viruses and the like home to other family members who may not be in that group that does so well.
Yeah, the kids in one inner city school I well know will very likely weather catching Covid well, certainly no worse than the seasonal afflictions that have been ongoing for years. But the teachers and staff, not so much. Not their families. A lot of morbidly obese parents that already have breathing aids, diabetes is rampant. Grandma or some elderly relative living with them. Crowded housing situation. Yes, those kids will statistically do fine as group. But not their families.
Those with the brains, clout, money are ducking out on exposure to this virus for good reasons. Harvard profs aren’t going to be in the classrooms though the campus will be open. Sure let the kids come to school, but they aren’t mingling with the. Two I know have left town and are here in this low population density bucolic area, where the Covid numbers are waaay low, and they are not going back until the numbers there are close to these.
So the logical question, @cptofthehouse , is what will become of those inner city children this fall? They are not going to be hiding in their overcrowded dwellings for months. Isn’t it far more likely they will be circulating on the streets, having the very same social encounters we tried to avoid by closing the schools, and still bringing the virus back to their families? Plus getting into all types of socially dysfunctional activities with way too much free time? Closing schools and escaping to the country to wait this out is a privileged position applicable to very few of our citizens, just as the bucolic and isolated prep schools can afford to continue operations for a small subset of the very affluent. Neither is the basis for good public policy.
People will money will either take time off, retirement or move away. Why unnecessary expose yourself to virus if you have means to do so. If you do not have means, well then no choice but to continue just like in our house hold.
@wisteria100 – I didn’t hear them say they will test everyone again after the initial test required to get on campus.
In a previous communication they said they would have ‘targeted’ testing throughout the semester, but I haven’t heard details. I’m presuming it will be based on contact tracing? I know they have a contract with a NC-based lab so hopefully access won’t too difficult, though given the national supply chain issues there’s no guarantee.
I forgot to mention students aren’t supposed to take overnight trips during the semester nor have overnight guests. No family or alumni weekends this Fall.
I don’t know. Each school can be so very different
Big Inner City School in a crowded high population density, many families under poverty level,
Private school, charter school, small school, just blocks down the road, same area but with a school population that has hardly been affected
The above are 2 real life scenarios. They would likely be under the the same edict to reopen or stay shut. School 2 is likely to have only 1/3-3/4 of students showing up anyways because those families have headed to the hills or set up homeschooling that is working. They see no reason to send their kids into a known germ pit and possibly bring home that virus. They can manage the situations for themselves better.
So it has to be up to the school to make policy as things can vary widely between two schools in the same district.
I live in an area right now with a horribly rated School district. But hardly any Covid cases reported here. Online, home packs, are not working well at all. Yes, the kids are on the streets, parents back to work and it’s not a good situation at all. To me, opening these schools would alleviate a sinking situation. However, one frigging Covid spark is going to be landing on tinder there. The risk is in that possibility. Covid can wipe out this town because there aren’t decent medical facilities easily available. The schools are the highest risk placed for this to happen. It can take just one kid. It’s like the nursing homes or cruise ships—the right case can cause the situation to explode. Right now, the few lone cases are being well contained as essential and permitted workers appear to be taking careful precautions and the general population is as well. These people want to live snd they do not want to catch Covid.
So, what’s the answer here? Create a power keg in place that is keeping good control but you know all that it takes points to the frigging school as what can most likely blow in an area?
The school I well know is in a very challenged area of the city. Even as NYC is doing better with their numbers, COVID is very much a player in that area. Most all kids personally know and even physically touched someone who had Covid. Same with the staff. Compare that to me—I do not know a person (haven’t met knowingly face to face) who has had Covid. Now I do know some people who have the antibody, but no idea when they were exposed to Covid. I do not know anyone who has tested positive to the active virus. The stats in that neighborhood still show a lot of Covid cases. The kids there are very high risk staying at home. Many are not supervised at all, most inadequately. Parents gotta work and school served as childcare, or the parents not around, or are toxic, or incapable, or disinterested, and no one taking care of the kids much at home. Again, it was the schools providing some structure, necessities , as well as education. For these kids school is a major pipeline to get out of the bad environment they are in.
I guess in that last situation, the schools are not going to be as risky as Covid tanks since the virus is already heavily in the areas and homes. Those who work at such schools have to take it as part of their jobs to face the virus just as many essential workers, especially healthcare workers must do. I support “combat” pay for such situations, and many challenging school districts do offer more pay in light of the difficulty they may have in find personnel to work at these schools. Those who take those jobs have to know that there are higher risks of certain crises than one would have at Nice Suburb schools.
It’s a matter of weighing the risks and coming up with the best of all bad choices. No good choice here. What is the least damaging to the most people should be the guiding principle.
Those teachers and staff who do not want to take on that risk have the option to resign and an alert should be out to hire. The pay likely has to be more to get willing candidates (that extra should be offered to returnees first while this risk is still around), but there will be takers. Those schools should be reopened IMO
In 2), the kids likely aren’t suffering much. But risks not as high to open the schools as many parents not sending the kids and will take the virtual option that is also being offered at many schools. Those in that district for whom going physically school is a better option, can take it. Also many “good” schools serve a lot of different kinds of students in many different home situations There will be risk here
In 1), the added risk may be balanced by addressing other collateral damage from not opening
??? No idea. Education is not progressing as well Risks low for Covid but it can be what can be a catastrophic event. 3 can morph into 2) which is something that should be prevented. At what risk point should the catastrophe be risked?
These examples, (real life schools in mind, however, are just points in a spectrum and somehow we need public policies to cover it All. I think all x hills are going to be putting in virtual systems do that NOT sending your kid to school is a viable option with the canned programs made available. What about the families and kids who have issues other than education that make school a safety valve? Where parents are not good decision makers for their kids? Mama bear can harm and even kill her cubs, you know.
I would love to have a physician’s opinion on this. Thanks.
Because, my daughter’s college is requiring masks and I’m more concerned with the health risks of wearing a cloth mask than none at all (seems that she would be more likely to get sick by wearing a cloth mask than not- that is, during flu season a cloth mask seems like a very bad idea).
Surgical masks…well, she would need to carry several with her in a sealed bag. Because she will take them on and off, likely touch her face several times while wearing one , perhaps put it on a surface somewhere etc. which then renders it dirty…It’s not a big deal in Sept but as flu season arrives later in the semester, the idea of masking a healthy kid doesn’t appear to be without risk.
Thanks for the thoughts. This is not a mask/anti-mask comment. It is a genuine interest/info seeking comment for my child who is heading back to college in a month.
I appreciate your candor, @cptofthehouse , but it seems before we close all schools and throw a lot of vulnerable kids out to the streets, we should have evaluated the open school risk as catastrophic, because that is surely what the alternative of closed schools is.
I do not think open schools are a catastrophe, and neither apparently do the pediatricians.
The most affluent among us are able to, and will, send their kids to schools largely unaffected by this, because they do not like the online alternative. Why do the rest of us?
@iluvnaples I would be skeptical of anything from AAPS. They are a small (5,000 member) group of conservative medical practitioners who believe, among other things “that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism.” They don’t support Medicare or Medicaid or government involvement in health care.
