“I’ll make a bet that some schools will choose to put off fall semester in order to be in person. There’s just too much push back already from parents and students at elite universities and LACs. They do not want online. They want fall pushed off. If that works, it’s win win because colleges will get full tuition and room and board for “fall” semester and they won’t have to deal with leave of absences for current students.”
Here are two opinion pieces in college papers - Northwestern and Bowdoin. Students saying they want fall semester to be pushed out. I know a lot of families with kids at these schools. This is what I’m talking about.
I can’t find the stories from Chicago or Pomona but have spoken to parents with kids at these schools and kids are also banding together to let their colleges know that their choice is not online class for fall. They want their time on campus and are willing to wait and maybe even give up the summer of 2021 in order to have a better chance at two full semesters on campus.
As for the full pay aspect of your question, my point was that the colleges want those full pay kids in particular because they ARE paying full tuition and those are the kids they are most likely to LOSE for a semester if class is online.
@bluebayou Huh? It doesn’t delay anyone. All students - incoming freshman through seniors - all start fall semester late. Instead of August, they start back in October if it seems more safe or in January and still finish the 2020-2021 school year in time for the 2021-2022 school year to begin. Maybe I wasn’t clear.
Because the history of pandemics in the last like 200 years has shown that everyone single one has had a second wave about 6-8 months later. So putting off school till after that is one theory.
I can’t find the source but it’s out there. 100% have had a second wave.
sorry homer, I mis-understood. So what you are suggesting is that school start in say, October, and run thru summer? (To be completed in time for the incoming Frosh in August 2021?)
@bluebayou Correct. Some schools even think they can squeeze in a whole school year if they start in Jan and go through mid-July. Shortened breaks, etc.
@Mwfan1921 Sorry for the late response. Whitman College is the school that said they would discount tuition if they have to move to online classes for fall.
@privitebanker- NYC subways are pretty empty as are trains to get into the city , does not matter if from NJ, Long Island or Westchester or CT. Do not know about buses.
I think what @homerdog is trying to say is that LACs and private mid-sized universities will likely face significantly more backlash for an online semester because people pay significantly more money to these schools as a “premium” of sorts for the level of individualized attention students receive and tight-knit environments that support students’ mental health; this is how most LACs and private universities market themselves to students. At most large universities/public universities, intimate connections do not happen on nearly as wide of a scale as LACs (think 500-person classes) and private mid-sized universities. I would imagine that at most public universities, students’ learning has not been impacted nearly as much because most students were in large classes where they weren’t receiving any individual attention anyway and many students already live off-campus so many of them were not displaced (with the exception of freshmen). However, at many LACs and mid-sized private universities, the level of individualized attention that students receive and the tight-knit community that supports them in their endeavors (the things that people attending these colleges believe they are paying additional money compared to a public university for) has been mostly lost.
Davidson has announced fall tuition can be deferred for a year, until July 2021, for incoming freshman, and all sophomores and juniors, and until April 2021 for seniors.
It is probably more of a complaint for those paying premium prices for the residential college experience (as opposed to the money-limited student attending a low cost commuter public and does not really have much choice), though higher SES parents (who are more common at “elite” schools) may be able to leverage their money and social connections to make their voices louder.
There are 15 instructional weeks in a semester. Add 1-2 weeks for final exams and other overhead and you get 16-17 weeks. If the fall 2020 semester is delayed until January, that means that three full semesters (fall 2020, spring 2021, fall 2021), or 48-51 weeks, need to squeezed into the 2021 calendar year (obviously losing the 8-week summer session). Probably means no spring break or other breaks besides the winter one.
Quarter system schools may be more able to do it, by just shifting the fall 2020, winter 2021, and spring 2021 quarter to a quarter later, losing the summer 2021 quarter.
But then any school that does this would be mostly idle for fall 2020, and the revenue loss could tip some of the financially weaker ones into being in danger of having to close.
Agree with everything you wrote above, and will add that any school that relies on revenue from summer school or renting out their campus for academic or athletic camps will also realize a second summer of lost revenue.
Having said that, a Jan start running through the summer is the model I hope my son’s school adopts, but that is just my wishful thinking.
I guess I am confused as to why full pay parents at LACs are any different than full pay parents at UVA or UConn. Wouldn’t they all be upset at being full pay for sitting at the kitchen table taking online classes? I probably sound defensive and I don’t mean to be, but why is the fall greater for those at LACs over those at larger schools, and can we really generalize (not arguing, just curious)?
My D attended a meets full need public. Her school has an OOS association that provides FA grants to OOS students. They will not want to lose those full pay OOS kids either.
Ok…I see these are college papers. I am not surprised that the students are joining forces. I get it…I just have not heard anything from the parents in my neck of the woods.
My kids have all attended public universities. Not one of them has ever sat in a 500 person class. Other than a few large freshman classes (90 to about 250 students) that also included small recitation sections (about 15 students), most of their classes have been between 6 to 40 students. If they want (and that is the key) individualized attention, they can receive it. (My kids have had great relationships with their professors.) They have also been part of tight-knit communities that have supported them in their endeavors. (Academically, research projects, fellowship applications, etc.)
My dd’s transition to online classes with all of her professors has been pretty decent over all with the exception of 1 class which is focused around music. That professor has struggled with the transition. But she has several discussion-based classes (very small classes) that have transitioned well (but her experience is that they are requiring more research/papers and time commitment than the in-person class experience.)
I think the biggest issue is cost. (and at large publics, room and board is often the bulk of the cost, often more than tuition.)
The CDC is saying the second surge could be worse in part because it would overlap with the worst of the seasonal flu season. The flu shot should be mandatory. Too many people never get the shot, I think in recent years only about 40% get the vaccine. It should be a requirement to return to school, work etc.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek Regardless of whether the thing about class size is true at each public university, that is how LACs and private mid-sized universities market themselves. It may not be true for all public universities, but I am from NC and many of my friends in high school that are now attending UNC or NC State have reported all of their classes (with the exception of a freshman seminar) having hundreds of people.
I also had an AP Calculus teacher in high school who mentioned when she was at University of Georgia there were a few classes which most students would fail and the college didn’t care because the professors of those classes were there primarily for their research abilities and didn’t really care how many of their students passed. I’m sure this is not true of most professors at public universities, but that just doesn’t happen at LACs.