What would the basis of the lawsuit be? No school has to grant a gap year request, for any reason.
It really is a question of cost. The full pay OOS students at places like UCLA are complaining vocally (https://dailybruin.com/2020/04/21/the-quad-tuition-a-la-zoom-may-not-be-worth-out-of-state-student-fees/), while the instate students are fed up but (if they were in dorms) got a refund on room and board that was roughly equal to an entire quarter’s tuition.
Full pay instate families know that what they are paying for tuition is incredibly cheap compared to private alternatives, so even with a substantially degraded experience (which it certainly is), the value for money equation is still in their favor.
At my son’s university the fall semester runs from the day after Labour Day in September to just before Christmas and includes a 1 week break and 2 weeks of exams. The winter semester then runs from Jan to the end of April including 2 weeks exams and a week off in February. The fall and winter semesters work out to 62 days of instruction + 10 exam days so 14.5 weeks + 1 week off for 15.5 weeks.
The link to this newsletter was in an article I read recently. It outlines the results of a survey on “Undergraduate Enrollment Indicators, Impact on Admissions Practice and Fall Course Delivery” by the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.
When my daughter originally started college, it went from the Wed after Labor Day to about Dec 22. They have 4 days off for Thanksgiving, but that was it. Most of January was off, and then they went Feb to May with a spring break week. They didn’t do all the little holidays. Reason? It’s a rural state and it is hard for students to go home for 3 days. They just plowed through. Over her time there, they switched to a late Aug start and getting out a week before Christmas, but could easily go back to the original schedule.
My other daughter’s schedule was also tight but moved up - Aug to early Dec, but with a 4 day break for Columbus day and also a short Thanksgiving break. why? Lots of international students who couldn’t travel for 3-4 day breaks or even a week break. She never had a spring break because of her sport.
In the olden days, schools used to straddle the Christmas break for the first semester. A fall semester, break, and then exams after returning from the break.
At this point, no one will be traveling for fall or spring breaks anyway so why not plow through?
That was also my and my son’s experience at large publics. (And my daughter’s who attended a large private.) The kids I’m seeing attending large publics also have no problem receiving individualized attention – when they seek it out. I consider the latter a skill – and not just for college, but for life in the workplace, as well.
I don’t think I’m permitted to post the link but Inside Higher Ed published an article today on their website discussing 15 Fall College Scenarios. Some of these haven’t been widely discussed yet:
- Back to Normal
- Late Start
- Moving Fall to Spring
4)First Year Intensive (freshmen only on campus everyone else online) - Grad Students Only
- Structured Gap year
- Targeted Curriculum (reducing number of avail in person courses)
- Split Curriculum (mixture of courses designed as either online or in person)
- A Block Plan (taking 1 course at a time over 3-4 weeks)
- Modularity (modular course model)
- Students in Residence Learning Virtually
- A Low Residency Model (students brought on campus in waves & return home)
- A HyFlex Model (classes offered in person and online w/students on campus and at home)
- A Modified Tutorial Model (lectures online but small break out tutorial groups in person)
- Fully Remote
So for the people who don’t think college will be in person in the fall do you believe the same about K-12 school?
I feel for the K-12 teachers much more so than the professors. These classrooms and schools are crowded, confined and there is no escape or way to distance all day. At least professors have a better opportunity to distance if they work at it.
Thank you for the link. That was very helpful for understanding what is being considered.
@mammoth85 Thank you for the article reference – it was easy to find on the site.
Maybe, but K-12 kids don’t live in dorms with hundreds of other kids and parents to take care of them if they get sick. They also don’t travel from faraway to get to college.
Pick your poison. Have school and risk another outbreak or keep them home and risk more economic damage. Neither is palatable.
I’m still leaning no in-person school in fall but I imagine there will be schools that give it a go. Whether they can make it the entire semester is the question.
I still find it odd that the reasons we sent all the kids home in March will probably be the same in August but we’re anxious to send them back. No vaccine, no new antiviral meds, and limited testing (which I’m still not sure how that REALLY improves anything). Maybe better treatments as we learn but no game changers…and there’s still the PPE shortage issues.
Flatten the curve is good but I think we’ll be extending the time axis.
I still find it odd that the reasons we sent all the kids home in March will probably be the same in August
According to Dr. Birx it will not be the same. She is saying that they will be prepared with both testing and treatments. They are actually preparing for both influenza and Covid outbreaks at the same time. Dr. Birx says it will be a very different landscape. Crossing my fingers she is correct. With that being said if I had an autoimmune compromised student I would probably keep them home depending on the seriousness of it.
K-12…the kids cough on each other all day long. No outside walking to class. 30 hours a week in the same building (elementary same classroom) along with confined buses. College kids attend class and leave. Professors havel a fighting chance to distance. They just don’t have the face time K-12 teachers do. Students will give them space. School children don’t give their teachers space.
Although I do believe K-12 may look different next year in an effort to be safer. I feel for those teachers, bus drivers, and staff.
Perhaps a recognition that life cant stop indefinitely for a virus that isn’t as fatal as originally feared
I don’t see how you can maintain social distancing in any other situation.
Does anyone think social distancing is still going to occur in 4 months? The elderly and highly vulnerable may do so, but I am pretty certain the rest of us will be back to life.
- We (including the colleges) do not know the true number of fatalities or the true number of infections, calculating the fatality rate depends on guesses and assumptions.
- Fatalities are not the only really bad outcome, since hospitalization and long term damage to lungs, heart, kidneys, etc. are fairly common bad outcomes.
Of course, more knowledge may come in the future, which may allow for better estimates of the rate of fatalities and other bad outcomes, tighter estimates of risk factors, medical interventions that can reduce fatalities and other bad outcomes in those who are infected, or even an effective widely available vaccine. But we (including the colleges) do not know any of this now, so it is not surprising that the colleges want to delay making decisions until forced to by time constraint.
Regardless of government orders or lack thereof, many people will continue to do so out of fear of the virus, unless there is an effective widely available vaccine (unlikely) or enough medical knowledge to largely prevent COVID-19 cases from progressing to bad outcomes.
We’re learning more each day. Turns out the first covid death in California occurred on Feb 6, meaning covid was in California in mid to late January. So maybe, just maybe, there are more people walking around CA with antibodies than earlier estimated. Could this be true in other areas?
I believe that K-12 will be in person in the fall as the parents need to work during the day. If a child gets sick they can easily send them home for 2 weeks and the class continues. Also, K-12 is day school where you can have kids wear masks and keep them from large gatherings during break, lunch. No large assemblies for the kids, no organized sports, class plays, etc. until the virus is under control. In general, elementary school, middle school and high schools are much smaller than colleges so it’s going to be an easier environment to control. They are also the least likely to have severe symptoms from the virus due to their age. Public school districts don’t get paid by the government if kids don’t show up to school. They need these kids back in school.
Contrast that to college students who don’t need their parents and can do their classes remotely (albeit not a great experience). The risk to the college is too great to have 30,000 undergrads on campus, many who will be living residentialy, sharing rooms with two or three classmates and using the same bathrooms and dining commons. A college can do online learning and still get their tuition payments.
USC did a study recently and concluded that 55x more people in LA county had the virus than is reported in the official count. I’m pretty sure my son and I had it in early February (fever, dry couch, body aches, could barely move from room to room). I took Z-pack (which doesn’t work for the seasonal flu) and I was much better within 3 days. With that said, even if the revised number is accurate that only accounts for about 5% of the population having had it in LA county. At this rate it will take a long, long time to reach herd immunity.