@roycroftmom – Yes, my D would not want to be ‘left behind’ from her crew of six closest friends or even her larger group of friends through various ECs. She feels they are in this together; I think COVID has bonded them even more than before.
In the discussions I’ve seen so far, long term economic cost seems to be an especially under-appreciated consideration.
If my kid’s college does a staggered return to campus - say seniors first - and some students are relegated to online learning, I would expect a tuition discount. All students on lining learning, no such expectation.
@Leigh22 A staggered return doesn’t necessarily mean it would be a long period of distance learning. Like it could mean they just spread out the move-in period (like two weeks instead of one day).
I just think it’s likely that some of S19’s friends may take a pass as well. We will see.
@ChemAM Some schools are saying no gap year for Covid but I haven’t heard of any saying that a student in good standing can’t take a semester off. Of course Amherst would say it’s not a good idea but kids do take breaks sometimes even without a pandemic. It’s something that’s offered from the college. They can’t force a current student to pay or they are kicked out of school. Obviously, it has downsides - not being with a cohort for graduation being one of them, and having to figure out housing for that last fall semester since I’m guessing LACs might not have space for a fifth year senior. Our nephew graduated from college in January (at UMinn) and it worked out great for him. He still got an amazing job and was allowed to start in Feb right after he graduated. It was a little different for him, though, because he graduated in 3.5 years, not 4.5 years, so stayed with his friends and was allowed to go to May graduation ceremonies.
I am not worried about S19 losing money or career standing by putting off college for a short time. That doesn’t make any sense to me. He will give up, what, one year of salary in his lifetime? Or maybe just six months? That does not seem like a big deal. How much would he really be socking away in savings during his first year out of school anyway? One year of maxing out a 401k? I don’t know. Both my H and I didn’t make much money for the first two-three years out of school. We are comfortable financially because of jobs that paid well starting in our late 20s.
@Empireapple I believe that K-12 will “go back” first, however “go back” is. I feel like the stakes are so much higher for the k-12 kids’ education and development.
As for social distancing and school, Denmark is doing it for primary schools ( I apologize if I posted that here already). Sure, tiny country with low rates, but they are figuring out how to social distance kids in a classroom.
I like the details from the Amherst call too. My DS19 would go back to college with social distancing requirements. They are sick of the house (and probably their parents) already. Heck, my D17 wants to go with us in a few weeks to D19’s school just to move him out, she’s so tired of our four walls (she’s not coming, but that’s the level of boredom here).
I agree that Fall 2020 semester will be a downer no matter what students choose. If they can go back to school, it’s a bummer semester with lots of restrictions. If they take a gap semester/year, it’s a bummer semester with not much to do, no travel, no moneymaking, no internship (for the most part). If their classes are online, its a bummer semester of staying home and doing school online.
It depends on the student and also where they are in their journey. My D17 can’t wait to get back to her college city off campus apartment even if she’s online learning and sheltering at home there. She is the one who talks of a gap semester because she’ll be a senior and has a lot of exciting classes/projects that she doesn’t want to do “downgraded” to online. She wants to get everything she can out of her last year because she loves it, so might put it on hold so she can get that.
In person classes can be distance capable. I.e. while most of the class is in the classroom, students who are sick (of anything) can participate remotely.
Ever be in a meeting at work where one or more of the participants is remote? Think of it just like that. The college just has to make every classroom capable in an IT sense and make sure that every instructor can turn on the remote access. Making sure that all students (including poor ones) have the needed computer equipment is also needed.
Labs would be more difficult, of course, but most classes are not labs, so the solution is relatively easy for most classes.
The president of Rice commented yesterday about tuition reductions next fall should classes continue to be online. He said:
“One of our concerns is to try to maintain employment, particularly of the most vulnerable parts of our employment base,” Leebron said. “We did not let go of anybody after going online this spring semester, which is not true of every university, but the more we think about tuition differences, the less capability we will have to maintain [our current] employment levels.”
I hadn’t considered that angle. While as parents we may feel we are not getting what we are paying for with an online education, a reduction in tuition might have even bigger impacts on our kids future education should many qualified staff need to let go.
Such complicated decisions!
I’m probably in the minority here, but I’m fine with paying full tuition less R&B, and any other on-site fees (gym, etc). Just as long as every attempt is made to keep all their employees on full (or near full) pay. Schools may not be able to deliver all classes online, so adjustments will nee to be made. But, we all need to flexible in these “interesting” times.
I agree as long as it’s not too long lasting, but I would not say that’s the sentiment of a lot of parents right now. I get the arguments on both sides of this situation and think both made valid points.
Taking a semester off can be problematic in programs where there is a strict progression of courses that requires previous courses as prerequisites and where courses are only offered in specific semesters. Taking the fall semester off then prevents taking courses in the winter semester.
Those well-paid jobs would be delayed a year as well - and that’s where the rub is.
Basically, all things being equal, starting a career a year later translates into reaching financial independence a year later.
The only time that starting work a year later would be better is if economic or industry conditions were significantly better for hiring a year later, since those entering the work force during a downturn (often being unemployed for months or years at the start of their careers, or able only to get a job with low pay and worse career development) tend to have depressed career and pay progression for a decade or more afterward. But this involves “market timing”, which is often mostly luck or chance (especially for current frosh/soph or pre-frosh students). For graduating seniors, they obviously have better near term information, but need to have set up alternative plans (e.g. applications to graduate school) already to have such options.
I think the first year after you graduate from college is the most crucial year to find employment. The longer you are to being unemployed, the harder it is to find employment. But it is what it is, many kids graduated during the recessions and eventually they would find something. Can’t worry about what we can’t control.
But not necessarily in their field of interest, or with the pay level or career progression that those entering the work force during non-recessions typically get.
This does bring up a thought about students who enter college with advanced credit and the capability of graduating a semester or year early (compared to the budgeted 8 semesters). It can make sense for such a student to plan his/her schedule to be able to graduate early, but not commit to it until closer to that date. If the economic or industry outlook is bad, such that job searching yields nothing, it may be better to stay in school for the next semester than to graduate into the unemployment line. But if the job search yields something good, graduate sooner and start working.
@gwnorth s19 isn’t in a major where there’s a progression of courses so that’s not a problem. In fact, if he wants to major in physics he only has five more classes to take over six whole semesters leaving a lot of open space and he’s taken all prerequisites. If he chooses math, seven more classes to take. He’s already taken the two “weed out” type classes so he’s good there too. There are no classes he needs this fall in order to take what he would want come spring.
Obviously others would need to consider their own circumstances.
I think it is clear that this crisis will affect schools in different ways, but it is precisely the expensive schools that mainly sell the “experience” (vs course rigor or elite brand) that are likely to face the most competitive pressures.
Many public OOS will also be easier to say no to, exacerbating the financial impact.
You’re only looking at a small part of the overall economic picture. It isn’t just one year salary. He will be one year behind in promotions and salary increases every year, everything else being equal. The present value of all these annual deficits, when added together year after year, is much more than his first year salary.
perfect time for returning students to take a co-op semester…if there are jobs?
I think it is a big assumption that a student will graduate, take a job and plug along in that role for the rest of their career. Most people change companies and many people change fields over the course of their career. This may increase or decrease a persons earning potential, depending on the move. I would not worry about being “behind” a year.