So parents have to make a decision, online or in person, and stick to it, regardless of changes in situation? But schools and states are changing on a dime.
The interesting thing about this thread is the rampant inability to discuss these issues without serious bias. Whether it’s normalcy bias (everyone I know is fine), confirmation bias (see, the numbers bear out my initial impressions), or hyperbolic discounting (making short term decisions that are inconsistent over time), there are now over 13,000 posts attempting to organize something that is beyond organization.
It’s time to embrace the chaos and accept the only way to safely navigate the next few months is remote. If you believe your school or child is different, the drivers of your decision are not health-based.
The schools that are the most financially secure are making the best decisions because money isn’t a major factor in selection…safety is. If you want a very well written, logical, reasoned explanation of why students shouldn’t be on campus, read the letter from Princeton’s President the other day. It says things that schools worried about money can’t say, like:
It’s a compelling explanation of why remote is the way forward right now.
Princeton Letter: https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/08/07/fall-2020-update-undergraduate-education-be-fully-remote
@EyeVeee I completely agree. But I want a discount! Even a token 10% would have gone a long way.
@EyeVeee Right here, you were on a roll. You pointed out a true problem with discussion on this thread. Then…
You made a broad, definitive statement on what all people should do without taking into account anyone’s individual circumstances. Not to mention, you called everyone who disagreed with your point-of-view ignorant.
@EyeVeee What this ignores is that Princeton reversed primarily because the NJ restrictions made in-person instruction impossible, and the quote refers to all the restrictions they would have needed to implement to comply with state law. You took that quote WAY out-of-context.
I am by no means suggesting ignorance…just bias. It is entirely possible that your child / you / your friend would be better on campus, but those reasons don’t apply to others. They are yours. You are allowed to have biases and reasons, but they shouldn’t override others, especially if the general health of others is the reason we’re having this conversation.
I believe schools should have students with needs back on campus, but they shouldn’t have those without the need to be there around to increase risks.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Do not turn this into a debate. Move on, please. Now.
@“Cardinal Fang” - thanks for the links. I’ve seen the Israeli one several times. Yes, 174 positive tests out of roughly 1300 people, but how many hospitalizations. That would be ZERO. There was only one ER visit. And no, I don’t have to think the parents got it from children.
Crowded classrooms and a 3 day heat wave that led to a moratorium on mask requirements. If anything, this study shows that masks work. I find nothing in the study you linked that says the spread was children to adult. It does not draw any conclusion about a patient ‘0’ or “who started it?”. It does say this, “The role of children and adolescents in COVID-19 spread is equivocal; epidemiological data imply insignificance of children in transmission.”
@EyeVeee wrote:
One could just as forcefully argue that the most financially secure colleges are the ones spending the most money on frequent testing, reconfiguring classrooms, delivering take-out meals from the dining hall, reserving quarantine space in local hotels. Waiting until the last minute to tell families that the semester will be spent at home does not make Princeton and Penn (and, probably Brown) look wealthy and prudent. It makes them look incompetent.
@mindfully - thanks for the links. Dr. Wen makes some strong points.
@saillakeerie - ND required testing of all students prior to arrival. They perform a daily health check. Any student or faculty with the main three symptoms (fever, shortness of breath or loss of sense of smell or taste) they go to the health center. They are starting random testing to see how many asymptomatic cases are there.
The info on ND Here says they were testing the football and volleyball teams. Maybe that’s not part of the 67 since 8/3? Not sure.
This is a short video on what fall semester at Northeastern University will be like. The precautions taken seem very expensive. They will be doing their testing in house with a 24 hour turn around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlBtKrT3b0g&feature=em-uploademail
CNN’s Sanjay Gupta has decided not to send his three daughters back to their private school in Atlanta.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/health/covid-kids-school-gupta-essay/index.html
He gives a useful summary of the current findings on children catching and transmitting covid.
This is the school where DD teaches. After a couple of weeks of attending half f2f/half remote they plan to go fully f2f (you can choose fully remote if desired).
A few more precautions the school is taking that Gupta doesn’t mention. Masks are required starting at age 3 ! Stairwells are now one-way up or down. New filters have been installed in every classroom.
In the high school, class size has been reduced from 18 or so to 12-14 to allow social distancing. This means most teachers have an extra section and lost a free/planning period. Same salary, of course. So far she knows of one teacher who has decided not to return.
I think their plan might work if they were in upstate New York, where I am, rather than Atlanta. We shall see.
@janesmith… Lol… Just about to post it…
@janesmith I wonder how old his kids are and if that made a difference for him.
@homerdog Middle/high school I believe.
So our Parents Class of 2024 facebook page exploded yesterday because some of the students who are following the on-campus contract (about social distancing, mask wearing, not gathering in groups) were hearing about parties and large gatherings going on and some parents and students are, rightfully, very upset. The sentiment runs from “college kids will be college kids” to call the police to break-up these gatherings! These freshman just arrived on campus and moved-in Fri. thru Mon. and there is already major problems and anger when there should be much joy and excite to start college.
The other issue is that the RAs and other adult figures were no where to be found in several dorm buildings and surrounding areas. There is a lot of feelings of student isolation and loneliness and a real lack of programming and activities to do this week.
It’s already a mess and classes haven’t even started yet! Fall is going to be one big experiment and the students are unfortunately the guinea pigs…I’m not really sure the families know what they signed up for this year…
There isn’t a single family who knows anything. It’s all aspirational.
In the words of Mike Tyson, “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.
Where do you think that money would come from? It’s not the endowment. Staffs are being reduced to make up for lost revenue. But firing people doesn’t generate enough savings to provide substantial discounts. At a campus with 5,000 students a facilities worker might net each family $10, an adminstrative assistant about $4, and a junior faculty member about $15-20. Your “token” 10% discount on a ~$70,000 cost of attendance is ~1/3 of what some of those people earn for an entire year.
One of my D20’s closest friends is leaving for VT next Monday. She is to take a test at home today (I think) and will be tested again upon arrival. If she tests positive she will not be permitted to move in. I was speaking with her mom last week about it, and she said the plan was for the girl to stop working this past Saturday, and basically “quasi-quarantine” until she leaves for school.
Well, Saturday night one of their friends had a backyard graduation party. My D and her friend went. Probably 25 kids there, at most. No social distancing (no masks, lots of heads smooshed together for group photos). Monday night, friend had my D and their other 2 closest friends (all three of whom are still working) over for a “goodbye” dinner. Tomorrow they are planning for a group meetup at the beach. I’m certain there will be at least one or two more “goodbye” events before the kid actually leaves. Each time it is a “just this one last thing/exception” kind of thing. See where I’m going here? Now, multiply that by the thousands and thousands of other VT students and all of their “just one last thing/exception” scenarios playing out before they arrive on campus next week.
It could get interesting…