I also prioritize elementary ed over college, but these 2 things are mutually exclusive. One does not affect the other. Local bars and restaurants have more of an effect on elementary education (community spread) than college students who are living on campus and may be infecting each other. College students and young people living at home will still get together, but then bring the virus home to their families - as we’ve seen across the country this summer. Its not as if young people doing online classes from home are never going to go out or get together with others. That’s a fallacy.
Don’t think you can paint with broad strokes in terms of why given colleges or school districts in any given state. Reasons will vary. Some its infection rates in the locality/county/state (maybe from college kids coming back to school in the area but not always). May be facilities issues in terms of density, ventilation, etc. Testing issues. Teacher union objections. And stated reasons may not be actual reasons.
In terms of college, I think that if your view was unless there was 100% compliance at all times with all college rules in terms of masks, distancing, no group gathering, etc. colleges should send all kids home and go 100% remote learning, you shouldn’t send your kids back to college. 100% compliance wasn’t realistic nor is it required. Expectation should have been there will be cases on campus when kids return. Question is can it be managed without being out of control. Too early at this point. Various schools will need to be flexible and adjust as the semester rolls on. 100% remote is defintely an option.
I would argue that local virus numbers and PPE shortage are affected by the decisions of the local universities.
Universities are also competing with K-12 for testing capacity. This thread has discussed several universities that are promising biweekly testing. How many of local elementary to high schools also offer that? I would say that a young kid who is living with a grandparent and an essential worker should be tested before an 18-22 year old with no risk factors.
This of course is a personal choice and only you know your kid. I am in the camp to go to college. Just being on campus is motivating especially around kids that are academically motivated like the students at your college. I think for some kids it’s tough to get motivated to study long hours etc. At home. Sure all this can be done online and maybe at school also but washu is so small you can just go out and meet outside,go for coffee, take out a pizza and eat it on the lawn… Creative times calls for creative measures… Lol.
This is “his” new reality. There will be study groups somewhere, where they can spread out. Social distance walks. There will be ways to meet people that you just can’t online.
I just saw something this morning that the fastest turnaround time right now for any state is 48+ hours. Many states are 5-7 days. There aren’t enough labs with enough supplies to test nearly everyone who is supposed to be tested in the coming months. At some point, colleges pushing constraints in the system is selffish and dangerous. If schools are doing the testing themselves, maybe it would be better for us all if that capacity went to address the broader population and not the bubble that isn’t absolutely necessary for 18-22 year olds to learn.
{man steps off soapbox}
My university has pivoted yet again. The president has rescinded the “all-online” directive and we are now back to being allowed to offer in-person and hybrid classes, although under extremely restrictive circumstances (mask wearing, social distancing, de-densification). I don’t think it will make much practical difference to the students because most faculty chose to teach online back in July and only a handful of faculty wanted to teach in-person under the Covid distancing rules. Murphy basically did a stage 3 “carveout” for schools and universities which allows dining halls to open, again under social distancing rules, and some public spaces on campus to be available. The rest of the state is still under stage 2. Not quite sure why schools and universities are not subject to the same hygiene rules as everyone else. I’m doubting this is science-driven so much as the Governor acknowledging that higher ed as a business is “too big to fail.”
I strongly disagree that students taking online courses this fall will be disadvantaged in comparison to their peers taking in-person learning. Online learning, with some synchronous components such as Zoom meetings and video conferencing, will potentially be much more immersive, responsive, and effective than in-person instruction will be under the required current circumstances. I can also guarantee my students consistent and continuous instruction this fall online no matter what happens, with my health or theirs, with the campus open or not, whereas faculty teaching in-person can do no such thing, no matter what the colleges claim.
@EyeVeee In Illinois it depends on where you get your test. When I was calling around to find one for S19 (because he’s leaving for Maine), every testing place I called gave me different turn around times. One was 24-72. One was 6-10 days. And a few in between. I was able to get him a test with the quickest turn around time.
So, it’s not just each state having different turn around times than each other. Different locations within a state also have different turn around times.
In Illinois, if kids go back to school (K-12), they now need to get a test if they have ANY symptoms including cough, stuffy nose, fever, headache. They have to wait until they get a negative test to go back to school. Come on! How many absences would that cause while kids and teachers wait around for their results - another reason why our school gave up.
I smiled at your soapbox comment 
LOL. These are crazy and stressful times indeed. To each his/her own view. I have a very different perspective from what you’ve said here, so I’ll have to remember to stay off the soapbox too! (Good thing we have a moderator who is working OT to keep us all on the ground 
)
The problem is people travel. I go from the city to the suburbs. Lots of people travel through out the state. I am not against a state ruling with masks etc. Once one area is low keep watching since they tend to raise at some point. No great answer here. Look what New Zealand is doing with a small uptick…
Schools are having a few f2f classes to nudge students into the dorms and secure R&B money. If (when?) the COVID plan doesn’t work they will switch to all online and our kids will be stuck in a single dorm doing classes over zoom in isolation.
@homerdog - the indirect issues are mind-numbing.
In July, my 82 YO father tested positive when admitted for hip surgery, and the only person who he could have received the virus from (who wasn’t being tested regularly) is his 78 YO brother.
My uncle went for a test (with his wife for obvious reasons), and was told 48 hours. It took 18 days to get results. If he was positive…he’d have likely been dead before the test came back.
Without almost immediate test results, all of the planning the world is useless. Schools are going to run into closures not from the virus, but from the unknown as they await results.
BTW…after being treated like a leper for 5 days, I refused to release my father to a rehab facility that was accepting COVID positive patients until he was retested. Three days later, his results were negative. It was a false positive, that cost tens of thousands of dollars in hospital expenses as they dealt with a “positive” for hip surgery and an 8-day stay.
@“Cardinal Fang” - Any students that tested positive before move in were not allowed to move in. They quarantined at home. So, everyone who was one campus tested negative within 2 weeks of arrival. This is the false sense of security with this approach. Obviously, someone became infected in that two weeks, was asymptomatic and went to a party.
^^ or false negatives, false positives. The tests are not perfect either.
So on August 7th at Michigan students got their final schedule but have until today to cancel room /board without penalty. (if like all their courses went online). My sons schedule is 3 online/ 2 live/hybrid. He is fine with it. Most people I know or on the Michigan threads seem to be going on campus no matter what. Apartments are almost sold out so that’s a sign kids will be on campus.
I did ask my son again if he thinks it’s worth going back. He pointed to the many boxes already packed and said "your taking me on the 27th,correct? ?. He was actually sorta excited when we were figuring his move in time… So that’s good.
But good news. He is moving into a co-op house that is like a large dorm (like 2 put together), all singles. I can only help him bring items to the door then the housemates will bring it all inside. I can’t go inside… Oh, twist my arm…?.. I won’t be allowed to lug his crap all over the place… Lol…
They are having meetings about rules about masks wearing, how to clean things properly with bleach like the bathrooms. They even have to close the lid of the toilet before flushing… ??.
They will all be tested prior to going. Have to take a covid module and pass before going. They have received it seems weekly information about the campus and covid rules. It just couldn’t be more clear actually.
He was there last semester spring by himself and was really able to get into it. It was his hardest semester being a junior in engineering but he also did his best. Think he actually likes classes video taped to review at another time. Had some “live” discussion classes.
The only issue now is if Illinois becomes a barred state then he will have to isolate when going there. Hope that doesn’t happen. He really hasn’t gone out a lot and taking it all pretty seriously.
Freshmen move in starts today at Purdue. Over 15,000 Covid tests completed so far (they prioritized the RAs and freshmen). .086% tested positive and are not allowed on campus. We’re hearing another 250-300 had inconclusive results and need to retest before coming to campus. Purdue has back up contracts for testing with other vendors, including CVS.
D got confirmation that Vault received her test and she should be getting results today or at the very latest tomorrow.
Some schools that told the kids upfront that class would be all remote including Bowdoin back on 6/22. They told the freshmen who are coming to campus that all of their classes will be remote except for the writing seminars and that is still the case. No bait and switch.
I think the issue is that freshman want as normal a 1st year as possible. They had spring semester “stolen” from them whether it was no prom, no grad night, no grad trips, no normal graduation, no varsity sports, no plays, no musical performances, and having to complete their HS classes online from their parents home.
They don’t want to continue this process of living at home as an adult and taking classes remotely. I get it.
The practical side would say “stay at home and save room & board money”, it might even be safer?, but many of these kids are ready to “launch” and the can’t really do that from their parents house.
Lastly, there is some value is actually being physically on campus, they will be able to meet people in their dorms, social distance outside, have meals with other students, and will make the best of it, albeit under strict guidelines.
In my opinion, I think most of these in-person, on-campus colleges will be fully remote in a month of “opening” their campuses (you see the trend and where we are headed) and then you need to ask yourself if being on campus taking classes remotely is worth the cost and effort?
Our regional high school in Massachusetts is remote even though all five member towns are showing a really low test positive rate. For our district it came down to busing costs among other increased costs for hybrid. Supposedly by November grades 9 and 12 will be back in school and the whole school by January. Time will tell how this plays out. Our governor is really pushing in person school but I have been surprised by how many districts are remote given Massachusetts’ decent numbers. Lots of people are afraid of all the college kids coming back. My son goes to Colby next week and we are hoping that will work out. Thanks for everyones updates.
I would hesitate bringing out the torches and pitchforks because a handful of colleges and universities were clued in early that a quicker version of the standard PCR test was on track for emergency use approval (EUA) by the FDA. There are a lot of emergency use applications out there and colleges can’t be blamed for the lack of a coordinated national policy around them. The testing procedure in question was developed by a small start-up in Massachusetts which explains why so many of its customers are in the NE. It only received official certification for emergency use from the FDA a month ago, probably too late to be factored in by individual school districts in other parts of the country.
Here’s an opinion article from the NY Times: “Is Your Child’s School Ready to Reopen?”
You plug in your county and are told if the county is (1) “Red” – All K-12 schools should stay remote (2) “Orange” – Elementary and middle school can reopen,
high school stays remote; (3) “Yellow” – Elementary and middle school can reopen,
high school partially remote; (4) “Green” – Safe to reopen all schools.
Actually, I’m not sure I recommend just plugging in your county, because the Times numbers appear to be out of date, at least for my SoCal location. But I think it is worthwhile to consider how the Times reached its conclusions.
"Our analysis considers two main things: the rate of new infections in a county and the county’s testing capabilities. "
(1) Rate of new coronavirus cases: “We used guidelines from the Harvard Global Health Institute, which proposed a variety of ways to open schools as long as the county has fewer than 25 [daily new] cases of Covid-19 per 100,000 people.”
More than 25 is Red. Orange is between 10 and 25 daily new cases per 100K people; Yellow is between 1 and 10 daily new cases; and Green is less than 1.
The Harvard guidelines are here: https://globalepidemics.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/pandemic_resilient_schools_briefing_72020.pdf
California, to determine whether a county can reopen K-12 schools, uses a 14-day period for new cases, which must be less than 100 per 100K population. I believe that’s “Yellow” under the Harvard guidelines. Elementary schools can apply for a waiver to reopen so long as new cases are less than 200 per 100K population, which is “Orange” under the Harvard guidelines. So this is actually pretty similar to the Harvard guidelines, I believe?
(2) Rate of testing: The Times analysis uses “the World Health Organization’s proposal to open only if fewer than 5 percent of all those who are tested for the virus over a two-week period actually have it.”
This is less stringent than the Harvard guidelines, which suggest a positivity rate of no more than 3 percent, and more stringent than US federal guidelines, which say schools can reopen so long as positivity does not exceed 10 percent.
California is certainly tracking test positivity by county, but does not use that metric for reopening schools, as far as I’m aware.