Swedes did in fact self-organize into some isolation (about 1/3rd of the population), but the issue that @PetraMC correctly points out is that herd immunity doesn’t appear near in Sweden without a lot more dying. The Swedes have also seen no economic benefit while experiencing population-adjusted case rates 5X higher than Norway and Finland. There are 5,802 dead in Sweden, versus 334 in Finland and 262 in Norway.
They may not have “found the need to make enforceable rules”, but there are far fewer of them than there would have been with rules similar to other European nations, and they are nowhere close to herd immunity.
I mean. That’s the message they are getting, so how can that attitude be a surprise? Adults have been doing a fine job of spreading covid all over the country, so I don’t see how we can expect more from 18 year olds.
Also, the schools are simultaneously saying “come back, it’s safe!” and “oh definitely don’t act like students though!”
I’ve been irked by all of these “opening safely” PR campaigns, including at my kids’ schools. There IS no “opening safely.” There’s opening, but you are taking a risk, party or not. That doesn’t sound as good.
This switch to in person was originally planned for next Monday but many expected it to be postponed because they staggered dorm moveins such that many upperclassmen aren’t even moving in until next week. This gives everyone a chance to actually be on campus in time for in person classes.
That said, there have been reports of many large groups of freshman congregating and roaming the off campus housing areas looking for parties. These kids are supposed to be sheltering in place with their pods. An email went out earlier today warning kids that they need to behave.
I didn’t understand that the Sweden approach was aimed at minimizing death or economic harm; I understood it to be about sustainablity. If Covid is a short term issue that approach makese less sense. If its a longer term issue (4-5 years as referenced in Northeastern letter) it may well be a better approach. Some colleges are taking similar approaches. Time will tell for all.
I don’t know. Do you have that information? Can you provide it to us? I haven’t seen any reason to think that number is zero. Notre Dame doesn’t seem to be giving it out.
Maybe you didn’t read the whole article? Other doctors in this article say we could be back to school with no masks by fall 2021. I feel like this is all conjecture at this point.
@“Cardinal Fang” I define giving up as sending everyone home. The current status for ND is all in person classes move to remote for the next 2 weeks while staying on campus. I have edited the original post. To answer your question, my source is my son at ND regarding hospitalizations.
I added information on positive test rates for California vs ND. Based on the current rates, my son is safer at ND than in California.
ND’s refusal (inability perhaps?) to test the entire campus ASAP will result in additional unnecessary spread and also means that they have no idea of the true # of cases on campus.
Confining everyone to their dorms means that the virus is currently spreading unchecked through the dorms. They have removed the + cases, but their exposed roommates remain behind.
I live in California and was surprised to see the claim that 24% of people aged 18-34 who were tested for covid showed positive. So I checked the page. You misinterpreted it.
That page doesn’t provide the positivity rate for 18-34 year olds tested in California. It does, however, tell us that 24% of Californians are between 18 and 34 years old.
So where did the infection at the party come from?
You are drawing specific conclusions from variables that are unknowable. If ND has that size outbreak from one event, they should close shop now. Anything that spreads like that is going to keep on winning until it runs out of new hosts.
Blaming an event or a group of people is convenient, but the realities of this virus are much more complicated.
We also have to stop thinking that if a student gets the virus they will be gravely ill. The vast majority of young people not high risk are totally fine.
My brother had antibodies and was never sick at all. We were all in lockdown together when NYC had it bad. None of us got it from him.
Asthma has not been identified as increasing risk to higher complications (several studies out of NY) and there are actually new studies that are showing it may reduce complications.
The point about Sweden is that while cases peaked in the Spring, they are very low now (an inverted V shape distribution), as low as in the beginning, with only 1 death. Schools stayed open and interestingly, no more school children got sick in Sweden than did in nearby Finland, where schools closed. So eventually, the numbers do come down naturally.
There have been people on this thread who have said or implied that if a student doesn’t die of covid or if a person isn’t hospitalized for covid, their disease doesn’t matter. I won’t list names and quotes here, but if you push me, I will. And I won’t have to go back even one page to do it.
There is nobody in this thread who has said or implied that if a student gets the virus they will be gravely ill. You can’t provide names or quotes here, because there are none. You’re putting up a strawman. Nobody is fooled by that. “We” don’t have to stop thinking if someone gets the virus they’ll be gravely ill, because we never thought that was true.
@suzyQ7 Just got off a zoom with Tufts. Cool idea for dining. Indoor dining is closed, so right now take out only. Instead of grabbing and eating alone in your room etc. Tufts is giving every student a Tufts picnic blanket. You can get takeout, open your blanket and eat outside, on the lawn…also the size of the blanket promotes social distance without even trying…fresh air, food, social and safe.! I loved that idea.