<p>LSU, my D (rising hs senior) has repeatedly been given advice that mirrors your point.</p>
<p>Since she definitely sees grad school in her future, she’s looking closely at her schools’ of choice track records in getting UGs accepted to strong grad programs(as opposed to their success in job placement).</p>
<p>My son landed his job despite a “soft” major. Don’t under-estimate the writing and reading abilities that go with the so-called “soft” majors. Many college grads are duds in the workplace because their writing skills are so weak- and this is an important tool in MANY careers. My son also demonstrated strong business/financial skills, too, though. Maybe they figured Wharton rubbed off on him even though he was not a Wharton grad!</p>
<p>People with engineering, CS degrees may have an easier time to get a high paying first job, but advancement in the future maybe more limited in the future, if they don’t some how move into management. </p>
<p>As MWC mentioned writing and reading skills are very important in business. I saw it first hand with my father. He was an outstanding engineer, but because of his writing skills (not his first language), he was always more of a “tool” at work. He got his expected X% raise, but he was never given any management opportunity.</p>
<p>My own expereince is opposite of my father. I have a BA degree, never took a computer course in my life, and I am managing hundreds of IT developers. Clearly it is not my technical experty that got me the job. I am a problem solver and I know how to put a good team together to a job done.</p>
<p>When it comes to my own kids, I would like them to get a BA degree from a best (prestigious) school possible. I think whatever they will be doing in the future will not depend on their skills (engineering, computer science…). Many of those technical jobs are getting offshored, only “soft skill” jobs are kept in the US or other highly developed countries.</p>
<p>My older daughter got her internship because of the school she is at, not because of her particular professional skill.</p>
<p>I posted this a while back. While browsing thru collegegrad.com, I found many companies place the college graduated from on top of the list. Some examples are listed below:</p>
<p>With the current economy, some smaller school and less known school are passed over. My niece in NJ and an IT manager in Northern VA said the same thing. Due to budget they visited only the flagship state university (Rutgers/UVA). Other good schools (like NJIT and Vtech) are passed over because they get more than enough qualified applicant from the flagship univ. Cuts down their recruiting time and expenses.</p>
<p>What school graduated important from is important if you look purely at company recruitment, and grades, networking and connection are not factored in the equation. Grades are very important for some recruiters. My friend in CA (aerospace industry) will not even look at a resume for engineering entry position unless its above 3.5 regardless of the school graduated. That’s his criteria. So someone from a top school with 3.4 may get passed over for someone with a 3.6 from a tier 2 school. The resume will not make to his desk.</p>
<p>AT&T: (same with Boeing, General Electric and Microsoft)
Top Candidate Characteristics
<p>Verizon was listed as the top employer and here is what they are looking for:
Top Candidate Characteristics
<p>I believe engineers and other STEM folks should learn to read and write. Some good liberal arts courses, in addition to Freshman writing. So they can be understood, and so they can have a broader perspective on things.</p>
<p>I believe liberal arts majors should take statistics, intro comp sci, and some natural science. Stats cause most social science needs it, and cause you cant understand what is BS without some basic stats and probability. Nat sci to understand the world better, and the way scientists think, and because the big social and ethical problems of the future are tied to science in so many ways. Comp sci to help with future jobs.</p>
<p>I hope this isn’t that controversial.</p>
<p>^not controversial to me. I agree with your post 100%.</p>
<p>The deal is, graduates from elite universities who majored in math-intensive majors are also likely to possess high verbal ability (Asians are an exception. Due to biological constraints, many Asians can do well in math-intensive majors but possess mediocre verbal ability). This is the nature of intelligence. So they are able to read and write, perhaps just as well, if not better than graduates in the humanities. Graduating with a high GPA in a math-intensive major at an elite school also signals that the graduate has either a genius level IQ or has high IQ and a tremendous work ethic. These majors are not easy. Many financial institutions are looking for people with quantitative skills. </p>
<p>As many posters have mentioned, this economy is not an economy where many English majors from HYP are going to hired at top banks.</p>
<p>Major matters. School matters.</p>
<p>AntiRacist… An interesting moniker given the content of your post.</p>
<p>My Caucasian math major daughter who has stellar written & verbal skills and seems to turn male heads wherever she goes is engaged to an Asian-American medical school student from the same Ivy whose parents arrived in CA from China as teens or young adults. His math skills are outstanding… and his written/verbal skills are as well!!</p>
<p>FWIW, my wife currently teaches Biology & Chemistry at a top NJ HS. The best prepared new immigrants always seem to be the Asian kids.</p>
<p>My experience (30 years chemical/chemical engineering/business management - industrial markets) has been that non-tech backgrounds don’t last long in industrial management positions. Technical people can be quite territorial; having spent years studying “hard major” curricula they likely figure if they’re passed over for “management”, their supervisor better not need remedial education. And contrary to stereotypes, most technical people today have in fact learned how to read words, and can write surprisingly lucid prose. Advice to soft BA degree folks who venture into these areas - get some calculus and higher level science in the field you intend to manage, if you want to survive its politics.</p>
<p>"As many posters have mentioned, this economy is not an economy where many English majors from HYP are going to hired at top banks.</p>
<p>Major matters. School matters. "</p>
<p>I am not sure quant whizzes are doing so well on Wall Street, compared to the boom years. Its also not a great economy for structural engineers, or, IIUC, for mechanical engineers.</p>
<p>I don’t know that you can judge majors by the current state of a fluid economy.</p>
<p>And your judgements on the genetics of intelligence are not informed by extensive study, I guess.</p>
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<p>Well, then it’s a good thing that there are actually thousands and thousands of jobs and careers other than those in banking. The focus that CC puts on banking / finance is totally out of proportion to the real world, IMO. </p>
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<p>What, is there only one type of job out there? What a reductionist question!</p>
<p>“The focus that CC puts on banking / finance is totally out of proportion to the real world, I”</p>
<p>To be fair though, I suppose thats cause its historically offered the highest salaries to newly minted liberal arts grads, and is a huge topic of discussion at the a ‘top ranked’ U’s, and even more so many of the LAC’s.</p>
<p>Reading over previous posts it would seem that the bulk of experience demonstrates the relative value of trade offs for a given student/circumstance. A prestigious school offers certain advantages but those might be negated for a student if the debt incurred was too great; a STEM major might seem more marketable, but what if the student in question isn’t inclined toward those areas of interest?</p>
<p>All of this illustrates the need for students to prioritize their wants and needs before they get to college to achieve optimal results. This isn’t easy to do - they are very young when these paths are chosen. Most high school teachers that I know feel today’s students are less mature than those of 10 or 15 years ago; given our current and near future economy, that doesn’t seem to be a good combination.</p>
<p>For most kids money is an issue in choosing a school, so if they don’t get a great FA package at a prestige school they will need to make choices. I think the most useful college guide in this regard is Rugg’s Recommendations - it isn’t perfect, but it is the only broad based, credible attempt at evaluating the merits of a department/major, not lumping an entire university into one narrow ranking.</p>
<p>AntiRacist - Amy Tan would probably like to know she’s in the wrong field - you should send her a note and let her know right away, I’m sure she wouldn’t want to waste any more time on something she’s genetically unsuited for.</p>
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<p>Excuse me…WHAT???</p>
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<p>I don’t know. As a school moves more and more towards churning out Wall Street bankers and little else, it seems to lose its luster and charm, to me. My own alma mater and my major has done some of that, and it’s a shame, IMO.</p>
<p>^^I couldn’t agree more. The patina of some of these colleges was the life of the student. As they churn out more pre-professional careerists the schools will loose their lustre with the every people they profess to attract.</p>
<p>I’m getting a little tired of the disdain for pre-professional, career-oriented students. You all may be affluent and idealistic about learning for learning’s sake, and that’s terrific. But many ordinary folks are simply not wealthy enough to have spent $100,000–$200,000 on their child’s education at any school, elite or otherwise, only to learn the child is not employable or will only be employabe after spending thousands more on grad school. That an undergrad institution can adequately prepare a student for a job upon graduation does not, in my opinion, diminish the intellectual quality of the school.</p>
<p>My English major son did not WANT to live in NYC or work on Wall Street. He DID want a good job at a solid company with benefits (well, that was my focus…) and he got it- English major and all.</p>
<p>I love the humanities but I am not sorry that my children are headed to pre-professional majors as undergrads. Both plan to minor in humanities areas, but they are concerned about employability. Again, this seems to be a matter of finding the right balance for the student.</p>
<p>I remember a CC thread a couple of months ago that was begun by a top LAC grad from 2009 still looking for work. He was taking community college courses to gain job skills. I doubt many would choose that scenario for themselves or their children; on the other hand, if we reduce education to churning out bean counters with no appreciation for anything more intellectual than the latest Hollywood blockbuster it will be a sad, sad day for all of us.</p>
<p>The only internship and job apps that bore fruit for our son came from companies with which he interviewed on campus. None of the apps he submitted to other companies (jobs were posted on their internet sites) came to anything.</p>
<p>Companies cannot recruit at every school. So, at least in his case, the institution he was attending mattered a lot.</p>