Schools for the Wealthy Elite

[Pizzagirl]

<p>"Many residential colleges like my LAC mandate all undergrads stay on campus for 2 or in the case of my LAC all 4 years unless one has a legitimate medical need for living off-campus. "</p>

<p>Yes. As does Wellesley - you live there all 4 years unless you have something like a medical need to live off campus. Guess the rich girls do have to mingle.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

You obviously had the drive and will to go to a private school. That is great. If you needed financial aid , that is also great that you received it.

</p>

<p>There was a large element of luck combined with the fact not too many kids from my urban public magnet apply there. That combined with my family’s precarious financial situation back then factored into my admission and FA/scholarship offer. </p>

<p>Thank you for the compliment about drive as my HS transcript would have indicated the exact opposite. If my HS teachers/classmates heard you describe me as having “drive”, they’d be ROTFLOLing right now. :)</p>

<p>

If I’m an Oberlin student and I simply personally don’t like another student, am I obligated to still be his friend? Sit with him at dinner? Invite him to my parties? If he asks me out, am I obligated to say yes?

</p>

<p>There’s a gulf of difference between being a private individual and being a student club/organization meeting on campus and using campus resources. </p>

<p>Seems like you’re falling into the same trap about distinctions as Bay.</p>

[Bay]

<p>

Another example of mandated residency requirements is how Harvard mandates freshman and sophomores to stay in dorms even if they live within close commuting/walking distance to the campus.

</p>

<p>Yes, but other than freshman year, this does nothing to prevent the rich from self-segregating, because freshmen choose their own sophomore through senior year roommates/suitemates. At H, the houses that I know of do not have communal bathrooms (they are en suite), so self-segregated rich kids are never “forced” to mingle with the poor kids unless you count dining in the same dining halls, which are large enough to avoid interpersonal contact with others. Harvard has Final Clubs, which host their own exclusive dinners in privately owned buildings; it also has sororities and fraternities. </p>

<p>

Seems like you’re falling into the same trap about distinctions as Bay.

</p>

<p>Yours is a distinction without a difference. Yours is worse; self-segregation by race and religion is okay with you so long as “EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO JOIN,” but not with me.</p>

[thumper1]

<p>What is a “final club”? Clearly I’m not wealthy or elite:)</p>

[lspf72]

<p>I haven’t read this thread in-depth, but around here a surprising number (or rather percentage) of wealthy students from my fairly preppy public HS ended up attending St. Lawrence. Still do. Also a decent showing at Trinity (CT), Hobart/William Smith, U. Richmond, and Skidmore.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

At H, the houses that I know of do not have communal bathrooms (they are en suite), so self-segregated rich kids are never “forced” to mingle with the poor kids unless you count dining in the same dining halls, which are large enough to avoid interpersonal contact with others.

</p>

<p>The Harvard houses do have periodic house meetings/social events and the degree of ease in self-segregating varies greatly by house depending on design. </p>

<p>

Harvard has Final Clubs, which host their own exclusive dinners in privately owned buildings;

</p>

<p>When my HS classmates at Harvard and I were in college, Final Clubs were perceived so negatively by most of them/most of the Harvard student body as havens for wealthy intellectual dilettantes to such an extent that the contempt was mutual. Same for fraternities/sororities…but then again, most HS classmates who ended up at Harvard had no use for such social clubs. </p>

<p>

Yours is a distinction without a difference. Yours is worse; self-segregation by race and religion is okay with you so long as “EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO JOIN,” but not with me.

</p>

<p>Denial isn’t only a river in Egypt… </p>

<p>In any event, please give my regards to Mubarak, Morsi, and Hazem el-Beblawi. :D</p>

<p>

What is a “final club”? Clearly I’m not wealthy or elite

</p>

<p>A private student social club composed of Harvard students drawn mostly from an exclusive subset of wealthy private/boarding school backgrounds. </p>

<p>Considered a bastion of old Harvard tradition by proponents and denounced vociferously by critics at Harvard and beyond as an institution which perpetuates prevailing social inequality on the Harvard campus and beyond. </p>

<p>Incidentally, one famous reject of a Final Club was President Franklin Delano Roosevelt who was blackballed from the Porcellian Club. It was said by his critics that this rejection played a factor in his later taxation/economic policies as president.</p>

[poetgrl]

<p>Corbat sometimes you are truly preposterous.</p>

[oldfort]

<p>poetgrl, you are usually ever so polite, but cobrat truly brings the best out of you. Nice to see you also have your breaking point.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>If Harvard had so many “wealthy intellectual dilettantes” that your friends were so contemptuous of, why did they even want to be a part of that vibe? Sounds like you and your friends spend/spent a lot of energy being contemptuous of people who were not like you.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>*One thing about me is that I tend to get bored if I stick with one group for far too long. Being able to mix in with multiple crowds and randomly chat up folks in public keeps life interesting. *
So only shallow relationships will do?
It takes time & work to have understanding & communication on a deeper level.
Sounds like you’ve got the hipster poseur thing down.</p>

[Bay]

<p>

Final Clubs were perceived so negatively by most of them/most of the Harvard student body as havens for wealthy intellectual dilettantes to such an extent that the contempt was mutual. Same for fraternities/sororities…but then again, most HS classmates who ended up at Harvard had no use for such social clubs.

</p>

<p>Well, if most H students have “no use for such social clubs,” then why would they care whether final clubs exist? The crux of the matter seems to be that whenever it is wealthy kids self-segragating, no matter how few, the vociferous objectors come out of the woodwork. These (tiny) clubs’ very existence are a real threat to campus community cohesiveness! Why is that? Because the other students want to be a part of that group too? Nothing prevents them from starting their own. On the other hand, Chinese students forming a club composed virtually entirely of Chinese students, is for some reason seen as an EC plus on campus. </p>

<p>I support students associating with whomever they please; it is the hypocrisy of banning social clubs that want to be exclusive, while promoting racial/religious clubs that are de facto exclusive, that rubs me the wrong way. Either allow them all, or be consistent and ban them all.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>The hipster poseur. Interesting concept. I think there is a certain subset of people who think they are so hip and above it all that they can be exhausting. One of the most exhausting people I have been around lately was a Reed graduate (from years ago), who at every turn of the conversation seemed to bring things around to her years at Reed (continually inserting the name Reed) and implying how intellectual things were there (and therefore implying how intelligent she is). It was truly strange. Of course, Jobs came up even though he was at Reed for about two seconds. But she happened to meet him for the two seconds he was there! Most people just don’t continually bring up their college in general conversation .
PS No knock on Reed!</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>Jobs was actually there for a year, he was just unofficial & was taking only the classes he wanted.
Maybe he was the first scrounger!
I know what you mean though but that isn’t just Reed, it’s practically from Portland to Seattle.
( I could be sensitive because I live in a hotbed of ironic facial hair.)</p>

[sevmom]

<p>Yes, Sorry,I know Jobs was there for more than two seconds! The whole conversation was just funny and she was a relative via marriage. She actually went from Reed to living on the land in BC .</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

Well, if most H students have “no use for such social clubs,” then why would they care whether final clubs exist?

</p>

<p>Because they feel it perpetuates old Harvard traditions they perceive as not only outmoded and should be tossed into the dustbin of history long ago, but also perpetuates norms of unearned social privilege and elitism more appropriate to old European aristocracies of the 19th century and before…not 20th or now…21st century America founded on much more egalitarian and meritocratic ideals…however tenuous those ideals may have been at times. </p>

<p>Granted, a part of that may have been because we came of age during the grunge/punk revival when joining traditional elitist organizations was considered extremely unfashionable.</p>

<p>An example of this was how so few young Gen Xers like myself were interested in joining the Masons that they were literally placing ads targeting us to encourage more of us to check them out and hopefully join them. Ironic considering they once had their pick of aspiring applicants. </p>

<p>

Corbat sometimes you are truly preposterous.

</p>

<p>What? The part about FDR? The information could be verified in many biographies on him and from news reports/editorials of his day. </p>

<p>

So only shallow relationships will do?

</p>

<p>No. Actually most friendships I develop are deep and longstanding. However, I don’t limit my social circle to just one sort or groupings of people. More importantly, I do my best to mix my social circles together so we can all enrich each other with our respective interests/ideas. </p>

<p>Are you saying one can only develop deep relationships with people from one’s “own crowd”? I don’t know about you…but that’s sounds pretty closed-minded and limiting. </p>

<p>

I support students associating with whomever they please; it is the hypocrisy of banning social clubs that want to be exclusive, while promoting racial/religious clubs that are de facto exclusive, that rubs me the wrong way.

</p>

<p>So long as the student clubs/organizations aren’t actively banning/discouraging fellow students from joining up, I don’t see the problem. Especially considering I am acquainted with two White Obie alums who had no issues living in Afrikan Heritage House at my college. </p>

<p>On the other hand, many exclusive campus social clubs and fraternities/sororities do while using campus resources. </p>

<p>As I said before, the key distinction is EVERYONE IS WELCOME TO JOIN student clubs/organizations/special interest houses if they are interested in joining. Not the case with exclusive campus social clubs like the ones Momzie cited, Harvard’s Final Clubs, or many campus fraternities/sororities. </p>

<p>And unlike your implication, students have joined such houses/clubs/organizations without issues as*shown by the two Obie alums with whom I had dinner with last week. And they’re not the only or isolated examples from my own experience as an Obie student.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>You and your Obie friends liked Oberlin. Some people like other schools. And some people actually like things like fraternities and sororities. If you don’t, avoid. Seems like you did that by going to Oberlin so what’s the problem?</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

You and your Obie friends liked Oberlin. Some people like other schools. And some people actually like things like fraternities and sororities. If you don’t, avoid. Seems like you did that by going to Oberlin so what’s the problem?

</p>

<p>I have a serious issue with students being allowed to use campus resources to support clubs which exclude other students on SES basis like Momzie experienced at W…especially when the given school markets itself as a small close-knit college community and supposedly promotes greater “egalitarianism”. </p>

<p>The hypocrisy of the contradictions in that case and other private colleges like it positively reeks.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>cobrat, Unless you have cousins that went to or are currently attending Wellesley (sorry if I missed that), you have no current knowledge of what is going on at Wellesley. Momzie (who you mention) seems to have issues from many years ago. If Wellesley doesn’t work for your friends or relatives, there are MANY other colleges out there.</p>

[cobrat]

<p>

cobrat, Unless you have cousins that went to or are currently attending Wellesley (sorry if I missed that), you have no current knowledge of what is going on at Wellesley.

</p>

<p>No cousins, but several friends/colleagues and an ex-gf.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>I should have known! Is there any college out there that you don’t have cousins/friends or friends of friends/colleagues or ex-colleagues/ middle school or high school friends/current or ex-gf’s that have gone there?</p>