<p>We're compiling a decent list of schools in the Northeast, but I am wondering about the posts saying that kids might have a chance at a better school if they leave their geographic area. My daughter's first choice right now is NYU, but I can't help wondering if somewhere else might be more likely to give financial assistance/be equally appealing to a Hispanic female math major from New Jersey. Other schools on her current list are:
McGill (another big school/good math dept.)
Smith (likes independent study options)
Rutgers (because we are in-state)
The College of NJ (ditto)</p>
<p>PS She says she doesn't want to go too far south - would miss the seasons.</p>
<p>Can you tell us more about your daughter? What are her grades/scores like? What courses has she taken in 10-12 grade? What sort of setting/environment would she thrive in?</p>
<p>Yes! So far she likes cities–her dream school is NYU–but open to other options
GPA 3.6/4.16 weighted/6 APs
Ranked in top 20 percent of very competitive NJ public high school
SATs 2000 (may retake)
Very strong in math (AP Calc BC and Statistics AP, Matt II SAT) – would like to study theoretical math
Also wants to take philosophy, other humanities courses
Nationally ranked skater (but may not want to skate in college, so leaving this out of the equation)
Ballroom dancing/ice dancing
Hispanic/Jewish mix
Definitely wants at least some diversity
Doesn’t like Greek life</p>
<p>I don’t think she wants far rural. Mid-sized towns and cities, or suburban are fine. She wants a big enough school to have a broad range of programs; not just engineering, for instance. Also she says, “bigger than my high school, please” (she has 500 kids in her graduating class).</p>
<p>Northwestern has a great academic reputation and is located in a suburb just north of Chicago with easy access to the city, although Evanston is pretty lively in its’ own right. </p>
<p>U of Michigan is strong in most areas (math especially well regarded) and is located in Ann Arbor, a protypical college town of about 100,000 people. Lots of diversity here. </p>
<p>U of Wisconsin is strong academically and located in the state capital of Madison, also a lively college town.</p>
<p>If right in a big city is a must, U of Minnesota has many terrific programs (not sure about math) and is located right in Minneapolis.</p>
<p>Also, the U of Chicago has a well regarded math department and is (obviously) located in Chicago. Washington University in St. Louis is another strong school that might match her criteria.</p>
<p>Northwestern, Chicago and Washington are highly selective, all admitting less than 30% of applicants. Michigan is one of the most popular public schools for out of state students and is a tough admit for out of state.</p>
<p>However your daughter’s profile may make her highly desirable for these schools, especially if she were to raise her SAT scores.</p>
<p>If she is particularly drawn to schools in the Midwest, she may want to consider taking the ACT as some people do better on it than they do on the SAT (my son sure did), plus it is more prevalent than the SAT in the Midwest.</p>
<p>Her ideal school would be the University of Chicago, but it is a reach. She would have to improve her SAT. Carnegie Mellon and Johns Hopkins are also good fits, but probably reaches. Michigan is excellent in Math and Philosophy, but it is expensive and not generous with aid. However, your daughter has an interesting profile and she could get merit money. Notre Dame could be an interesting option. Case Western in Cleveland would be a fine match. Pittsburgh would be a good safety. </p>
<p>I know you said she doesn’t like small schools, but Bates, Bowdoin, Haverford, Oberlin and Swarthmore would also be very good for her.</p>
<p>Check out Macalester (Twin Cities) and Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland).</p>
<p>The University of Chicago, Northwestern, and Washington University in St.Louis may be out of reach without higher scores and excellent essays. Perhaps worth a shot, though.</p>
<p>Wisconsin and Minnesota are good suggestions. Pittsburgh is another possibility. If your Expected Family Contribution is much over $30K, these schools could be relative bargains. Otherwise, your after-aid costs may be lower at private schools.</p>
<ul>
<li>In a great city</li>
<li>Strong philosophy/theology/humanities programs</li>
<li>Reasonably diverse (50% white, 17% Asian, 9% international, 8% Hispanic, 5% black, 1% NA, 10% multiracial/other)</li>
<li>Cooperates with a large Hillel with 3000+ students (at UW)</li>
<li>Moderately sized (4600 undergrads, 7800 total)</li>
<li>No Greek life</li>
<li>A safe match given her current stats</li>
</ul>
<p>The sciences are reasonably strong; I am less sure about math and engineering.</p>
<p>I had thought of Michigan and will definitely take a closer look if they are strong in math. We will also look at Chicago if her boards improve. Don’t know if the minority piece is significant there – it wasn’t with NYU!</p>
<p>She didn’t like Carnegie Mellon for various (teenage) reasons; we will also look at Hopkins. </p>
<p>An interesting challenge, in particular because she prefers “larger” and “non-rural” but has Smith on her list which would seem to be fairly rural (certainly not urban) and about the size of a large high school. The demographics of the Midwest also make, in general, for less “diverse” student bodies than those to be found on the coasts.</p>
<p>The major state U’s already mentioned, U of WI, U of MN, and U of MI, are worth investigating further as they will have good-to-excellent programs in her interests and are large enough that she will probably find student communities that appeal to her. Moreover if she has Rutgers on her list she probably will not be off-put by their size. U of MN, in particular, is in the heart of the Twin Cities and the most “urban” of the three. You might find, however, that financial aid is unlikely. Each is more selective than Rutgers, U of MI most so, but not out of reach for her stats.</p>
<p>Seeing Smith on her list suggests to me that she will consider liberal arts colleges (LAC’s), small though they are, if they have good reputations. Macalester is one and also one of the few LAC’s in the Midwest in an urban area (residential St. Paul). It strives for an international student body and is fairly diverse. It is also a 100%-need, so you can expect good financial aid if your EFC is low. It is a little more selective than Smith, but also a little smaller. I can’t speak to the Jewish nor Hispanic presence on campus but will note that the largest temple (Mount Zion) in the Twin Cities is five blocks from campus.</p>
<p>I’ll also venture to suggest St. Olaf, 40 minutes from the Twin Cities, in the medium-sized town of Northfield, so not “far-rural” but still small-townish. It is larger than Smith and about as selective, although not especially diverse. But she would probably find the student body would be welcoming and supportive and might even find her background especially appealing to the admissions office (there is a Jewish student group on campus). It also has a has a very strong mathematics program (a relatively high percentage of majors go on to earn doctorates) and is a 100%-need school, too. I realize this is a bit different given the stated preferences, but I think it could turn out to be a positive experience for her.</p>
<p>If you want to look further afield, I can’t help but think Occidental in Los Angeles might be a good fit for her.</p>
<p>Thanks, this is great direction. You are right about Smith–she likes the idea of independent study/relatively few core requirements, so it made the list. And other schools that don’t fit “the profile” will as well.</p>
<p>She has been to U. of MN. several times for national skating competitions and didn’t love it. Macalester has her on the mailing list – she gets tons of stuff from them. Will definitely take a closer look!</p>
<p>The only schools recommended above where “going outside her geographic area may prove to be an advantage” would be Seattle U, UMN, St Olaf or Macalester…the others have plenty of NJ kids and would be considered reaches</p>
<p>I think a Hispanic kid (and she definitely qualifies as that) with pretty good grades and test scores who is strong in math might be seen as a prize catch at a lot of Midwestern LACs. Carleton, Grinnell, Oberlin, Macalester, St. Olaf (in roughly that order) would be the strongest. If mom2collegekids is right about her FAFSA EFC, it may be difficult for these colleges to go much beyond that with FA, but it’s worth a shot to see what they’ll offer (and application fee waivers may be a possibility).</p>
<p>Smith also seems like a strong possibility. If she’s willing to consider Smith, what about other “Seven Sisters” women’s colleges like Bryn Mawr and Mt. Holyoke? Both a little smaller than Smith, but both in locations with tons of other college students in close proximity.</p>
<p>NYU, by the way, has a reputation for lousy FA, and the overall stats back it up—though individual results vary.</p>
<p>Glad to hear that, bclintonk. I am new to these boards and I have to say, reading all the horror stories I was starting to think she didn’t have a chance anywhere! </p>
<p>I don’t know much about Carleton or Grinnell–will check them out. Oberlin is a good idea! </p>
<p>If she likes Smith, I would definitely take her to a couple of the other women’s schools. She rejected Barnard due to core requirements (would have been a reach anyway).</p>
<p>I can pay $25-30k a year if needed. Been saving a long time. No other parent. </p>
<p>If your D wants an urban school, then Carleton, St. Olaf, Grinnell, and Oberlin and are not ideal (though they’re all fine schools). Smith is not urban but does have proximity to 4 other schools.</p>
<p>Some selective (but not uber-selective), non-Southern, urban LACs:
Barnard (Manhattan; women only, but part of Columbia U.)
Colorado College (nearby to a US Winter Olympic training center)
Macalester College
Trinity College (Hartford, not the greatest location)</p>
<p>Bryn Mawr is more suburban, and is women-only, but has a consortium relationship with Haverford, Swarthmore, and (more loosely/distantly) UPenn.</p>
<p>$25K-$30K is a typical full sticker price range for many OOS public schools. So that’s about what you can expect to pay for those schools (with little or no aid). If that is also your EFC, then in theory, that is also about what you can expect to pay for a selective private school with generous aid policies. In reality, the devil is in the details of how they calculate your need (for example, if your D’s father is even remotely in the picture.)</p>
<p>Carleton, Oberlin, and Grinnell are worth investigating further, but:</p>
<p>– Carleton, also in Northfield with St. Olaf, seemed a reach given her current stats
– Oberlin, also “reachy”, is also in a small town (although near Cleveland)
– Grinnell matches Macalester in selectivity, but is the very definition of “far rural”</p>
<p>Each of these is also 100%-need (although you should keep in mind that they will probably use something more like the Institutional Method to determine your EFC).</p>
<p>To add to the list of urban LAC’s, but not in the Midwest nor the South:
– Trinity U in San Antonio (does this count as “South”?)
– U of Puget Sound in Tacoma
– Occidental (as mentioned earlier)</p>
<p>Of these, only Occidental is 100%-need.</p>
<p>If you throw in schools that in suburbs of large metro areas, you can also include the (5) Claremont Colleges in LA-metro, Haverford, Bryn Mawr, and Swarthmore in Philadelphia-metro, Lake Forest in Chicago-metro, and many NYC-metro and Boston-metro schools that you probably already know about.</p>
