<p>Enthusiasm is good. It’s when you lose it that you have to worry!!!</p>
<p>Don’t forget that the great Lin-Manuel Miranda went to Wesleyan and started writing In the Heights there!</p>
<p>Soozievt,
We loved In The Heights! My D and I know one of the cast members, Robin DeJesus, who got nominated for best supporting actor! We love him. He is the sweetest kid!!! First time I saw him perform locally at a program my daughter attended, I thought he had such incredible stage presence. </p>
<p>Anyway, I know you’ve probably answered this kazillion times, but my D just asked me. Does Tisch have a BA in theater or just a BFA?</p>
<p>I also saw In the Heights and thought it was terrific. My D saw it separately from me and loves it immensely. I saw it with Lin-Manuel in it. The night she went, Lin’s understudy was on and my D almost died. So, she saw it a second time just to see him in it right before he left the show. Also, a few nights after she saw it the first time, she attended a dance show in NYC and lo and behold, who sat next to her that night but Lin-Manuel Miranda himself. She could not believe it. She admires him a great deal because I think she dreams of accomplishing what he has…namely that he wrote/composed a musical AND starred in it. And on Broadway. For a start, she is only 20 years old and so this week, her own original musical will open in NYC and she will star in it but it isn’t Broadway. It’s a start! </p>
<p>I know who Robin DeJesus is. I don’t know him personally. You may know that he starred in the movie, “Camp” which is LOOSELY based on Stagedoor Manor (and was filmed there). </p>
<p>Re: Tisch…no, there is no BA in theater at Tisch or at NYU, just the BFA Drama. That said, NYU/Tisch has some differences with some other BFA programs. For starters, the BFA is located within a very selective university academically whereas many BFA programs are not, even if they are top BFA programs. My D is a very good student and so ideally wanted a BFA program in a school that also was selective and academically challenging. Another thing is that Tisch is the only BFA program I know where academics count 50% of the admissions decision and the audition counts 50% whereas at most BFA programs, the audition counts more than the academics in admission, even though both are considered. Another difference is that Tisch requires more liberal arts courses for the BFA than most BFA programs. That is why I know students, including some whom I advise, who are excellent students who even prefer a BA school over a BFA one (like your D does) but who still apply to Tisch as an exception to their BA school only approach. I have also seen some BA applicants include U of Michigan (a BFA program) in this regard. For example, one of my rising seniors (who is at SDM right now) prefers a BA (in fact, Brown is on her list) but has chosen to also apply to Tisch and UMich which are BFAs. My D has a few friends with whom she went to SDM who are at Yale now for theater but who also applied to and got into Tisch’s BFA but preferred a BA. I know your D wants a BA. But if she is sure she wants to study theater (which is a commitment one must make if entering a BFA ahead of time), she may wish to not knock out Tisch.</p>
<p>We were so excited and went to opening of CAMP in NYC. Your D has a great start. It seems most of our famous stars toiled for years in basement black-box theaters doing what they love most before achieving their “overnight” success!!!</p>
<p>Thanks for the details re: NYU. I always thought she would go there, or at least apply, but I think she wants the college “quad” experience since she feels she will ultimately be living in NYC. Honestly, she still doesn’t know for sure what she wants. H—, I still don’t know what I want to do-lol! I’m pressuring her, out of selfish reasons, to minimize/organize the college app process. I work and I’m very invested in her–my one and only, so I know it will be a heavy commitment of my time as well.</p>
<p>eifc…um…my D is FARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR from famous! We are just happy that she is supporting herself (as is our expectation) from the day she graduated and that she is working in her field (musical theater). It is a very hard field to make it in but she is employed and also is involved in several things and was also cast right out of the starting gate. But no job lasts a long time in her field and so much remains to be seen. But she is off to a positive start. She has an agent. She is about to become Equity as well. And she is only 20 and young. </p>
<p>Naturally, we saw “Camp” the movie. A couple friends had minor roles in it. If you have ever seen the documentary called “Stagedoor”, my D is in that movie. She was 14 at the time it was filmed at camp. </p>
<p>NYU definitely has no campus. I would want one if it were me but my D did not care. NYU has a neighborhood and it also has NYC and she loved it immensely. </p>
<p>Your D, as a rising junior, should just be exploring schools now and seeing what is appealing and what’s not. It is a fun process in junior year and not that pressured at all. Senior year is a LOT more involving. But if she can explore colleges, do visits and create her college list by next summer, she’ll be in good shape.</p>
<p>I’ve been following this very interesting thread! I thought I’d share some info, and you can do with it what you’d like. My daughter is a rising freshman, and last april, while she was in 8th grade, the head of the private school she goes to, invited the deans of admissions from 2 top Ivy League schools (I won’t name them but they are talked about a lot on all these boards) to come and speak to the parents. They had many hilarious anecdotes to share about the college app process which I found quite interesting. I don’t know if they tell the same stories at every school visit, but the one I found quite funny was how a parent whose child was rejected from one of their schools called the dean pretending she was Condoleeza Rice saying how the school should seriously reconsider taking this particular applicant, because she knew him personally and he was an exemplary candidate who really wanted to go that school. Once he saw the number on the callerid, he realized what was going on. Some other stories about the essays received were intriguing. At these 2 schools, they go through 2 rounds of readers before the actual admissions committees get the final candidates. Some readers are alumni, and some are people hired outside the school who screen and check the applications. People writing their essays in circles (they get a lot of that) is only annoying and makes them dizzy. One boy wrote his app with blood telling them this was how badly he wanted to go their school! They called his parents to tell them he should seek counseling, and then they came to find out he did this with all his applications (adm directors talk to each other a lot so they both told us). They said he was probably anemic by time he finished all his applications! </p>
<p>They also told us that at the end of the 8th grade was really when the college process should begin so that it won’t be stressful. Plan to visit the colleges summer after 8th or 9th grade to get the feel of the campus and that they can make weekend accommodations to see the school, but they highly recommend coming when school is in session. They can even arrange overnight stays at the dorm if need be (that’s if your child really wants the college experience - some schools will do this and they can shadow a student for part or all of the day). The majority of visitors come during the summer, and they explained it’s a totally different climate since a lot of the students might not be actual students at the school (they could be just taking classes there or they could be hosting pre-college programs). Another interesting thing was that each time you communicate with a college, or you come to a performance at the school for example, some colleges track that. One adm dir said his school definitely tracks, the other said his didn’t. So it varies. </p>
<p>They told us they like to see diversity on the applications. They don’t want just students who are strong academically. They want to see that they do other things as well. The more interesting the applicant the better. They said that what counts is whether or not your child is taking the hardest classes your high school has to offer (per THEIR university’s criteria). Someone asked the question, is it better to take an AP course and get a B or an honors or regular course and get an A. And their answer was to take an AP class and get an A. Scores should be 4-5 on the AP exams as well. He explained that there are times that some public schoolers (who might not be attending a top public school) could very well gain admission over a private schooler, because the public schoolers take the hardest classes their school offers even though it is much less challenging than those at a private school. They do this for diversity, but sometimes it doesn’t always work out. In our case, there are the Stanford U math courses offered in jr and senior year as well as other university offerings in physics, music theory (sr year you can do independent study down at juilliard), government, etc. It is an interesting dilemma to weigh. If your child is not interested in these tougher classes, and doesn’t take them, then it can be perceived that they are not ready to take on a difficult college (their words). I know my daughter would NEVER in a million years take any advanced math or science courses, except forensic science perhaps, as her heart is not in it. She would do advanced history/politics/Model UN/Model Congress for sure. She would study advanced literature and film (to combine two interests), and she plans on doing as many arts courses as feasible (most meet at the same time unfortunately). She is lucky to have the option to join both a capella and Madrigals plus do recording studio, acting and dance at school. Her school does 3 shows a year (1 drama, 1 musical and a cabaret show), plus Edinburgh Fringe Festival (all are by audition with 2 callbacks). </p>
<p>They also stated the classic example of what the universities look for each year (and there is no predicting). I had heard this before, and perhaps you all have to. If they need an Oboe player, then they will keep looking for the best oboe player (the one with the highest grades). And if they find out this applicant is a contender at other schools, they will offer him/her money to come to their school. I didn’t know this (since my daughter is just starting high school in the fall, and we haven’t begun the college process yet). They don’t know what the head of the school will want until they do a study and determine where there needs are. Once that’s done, then they send a directive to the admissions office to “go find” these people to make up a certain demographic for that particular year. It’s a crap shoot in essence, they said, and many times, tremendously qualified kids are turned away - they have perfect SAT scores, 4.0 GPA’s, the extracurriculars, community service, but it might not be what they need that year.</p>
<p>Many high schools require a certain number of hours of community service as well to graduate. My d’s school’s req’t is 90 hours. It is hard to balance the insane amount of homework with community service and extracurriculars and clubs. The admissions directors told us they are tired of seeing “cookie cutter” kids who goi down to SA or Africa to build homes or latrines for the poor. With the amount of kids who put this on their resume, the rest of the world should be living quite well (their words). I don’t know if I read between the lines correctly or not, but maybe some kids exaggerate their experiences. What was nice to hear was there is a trend in looking for kids who actually have “jobs” during the summer (a novelty) instead of seeing kids with similar experiences - same camps, habitat for humanity-type programs, or prestigious pre-college programs. Another thing they mentioned was that unless your child was part of a club that won a national competition - they used the debate team - don’t even bother to put it on the resume. What is better is that the child be the head of the debate team; or editor of the newspaper; or winner of a national competition in voice, instrumental, dance, art, science, math, etc. They want to see leadership and entrepreneurial spirit - they gave the example of the star math student who opened his own tutoring service while in high school (showing his ability to start a business and earn money from his math talent).</p>
<p>They see a lot of kids writing their essays about how they want to help change the world, and yet there is no community service listed on their resumes (dead giveaway). One of the directors said “parents make sure your kid knows where he is when he comes on the interview”… They have kids come on interviews saying how much they like, for example, New Hampshire when the college is in Rhode Island or Massachusetts! They also mentioned that they “may” do away with the SAT’s as the discussion has come up about how kids in more affluent areas have an advantage over kids in poorer communities. The former can afford SAT training while the latter cannot giving an unfair advantage. They talked about just having an essay instead. Can the applicant communicate an idea, viewpoint, opinion, from beginning to end in a cohesive manner? That’s what they want to see, and then couple that with their school reports. In my daughter’s school, and many other public and private schools, if you are part of the John Hopkins CTY, you take the SAT’s in 7th and 8th grades which my daughter has done. She did it without any prep so we could get a baseline as to where she stood. There was no pressure either, and it gave her a chance to see what the test was like. However, she is used to taking the ERB’s every year, so testing is not an issue.</p>
<p>They did go on to talk about how there are so many wonderful liberal arts colleges out there that have wonderful reputations that parents should explore and not make the Ivies the be all/end all for their child. For many parents in my daughter’s school (we are NOT one of them), it is expected their kids go to Ivies (which is why the head of the school brought in the admissions directors at this early stage). Most families are legacies of these and other Ivies, so it is doubtul the adm directors got through to them. They were very emphatic about the fact that years ago, the legacies got put through first, but now they weigh them against the strongest candidates, and the legacies are not guaranteed admission (hard to believe, especially if these people are high contributors/supporters of the university for many years). My husband and I feel that our daughter should go wherever she feels comfortable. I’m more concerned with whatever she decides to study and being able to make a living afterwards, particularly if she studies performing arts. </p>
<p>We haven’t begun the tour process yet, and I believe in the handouts they gave (can’t find mine right now and perhaps soozievt might now), there is a site that gives virtual tours of the campuses. I think I would start there, and if we find a college that has most of the things might daughter is looking for, then we’ll go visit. She has a long list right now, and over time, we’ll narrow it down. One other thing they shared with us was that extracurriculars were not a make or break deal at their schools. The priorities were grades in the hardest courses, character (big one), leadership, how diverse the app’s life is (examples they gave: the straight A student who also likes to scuba dive in the galapagos, learn hungarian cooking, compose songs, have a business (that combines 2 different interests) and meditate in the himalayas! I thought the session was very insightul; however, they couldn’t take everyone’s questions (in fact, the head of the school only allowed about 6 questions in total - 3 to each admissions director).</p>
<p>I’m not looking forward to this daunting college selection/application process, as my daughter is just starting high school, which has its own set of challenges!</p>
<p>Good luck everyone!</p>
<p>medavinci, </p>
<p>I agree with much of what you found out about from the Ivy adcom reps that visited your D’s school. By the way, if you read CC’s forums for a while, much of what you learned from the reps is all discussed here a LOT. I realize you are new to this admissions stuff! </p>
<p>There are just three things in all of what you wrote that I do not agree with (but again, the rest was spot on, in my view). One is that I don’t agree to not put down an extracurricular like Debate Team if your team had not won some national competition or some such. While being on Debate Team with no leadership position or no concrete achievements such as competitions on the state or regional level will not “impress” elite college adcoms, I would not leave off such an activity on the resume if a student was very involved in it all four years of high school. I would show the activities that the student was passionate about and devoted to even if the achievement level was not on a national scale or something like that. These colleges do look at the role the student played in the endeavor, his/her contributions, and achievements or awards; that’s true. But still, even involvement over time, even if not at an extraordinary level, should at least be noted on the resume as how the student dedicated his/her time outside the classroom. The student may not stand out in a competitive applicant pool if they merely just participated in an activity but still, significant activities involving a lot of the student’s time should be noted. </p>
<p>Another thing I disagree with is starting the college process as an entering freshman in high school. My kids never did that (and they were competitive applicants to very selective schools or programs). At that age, they were devoted to doing their very best at academics (with the goal of going to a “good college” down the line) and to their activities that they were passionate about. They were not looking at colleges yet. I believe that starting the “college process” at the beginning of junior year is a good starting point that paces it all out for two years. The junior year can be devoted to college exploration, visits, testing, and so on. The senior year can be devoted to the admissions process. I don’t see a need to get all wrapped up in all things “college” for four years of high school. Kids even change over that time too as far as what they want in a college and what they might study and so on. Two years of “college admissions” on the brain is plenty. </p>
<p>The third thing I do not agree with is this statement: " He explained that there are times that some public schoolers (who might not be attending a top public school) could very well gain admission over a private schooler, because the public schoolers take the hardest classes their school offers even though it is much less challenging than those at a private school. They do this for diversity, but sometimes it doesn’t always work out." It is simply NOT necessarily true that the hardest classes in a public school (not a top one) are less challenging than those at a private high school or that these students just add diversity to the college student body but sometimes don’t make it, etc. I will share from personal experience. My daughters attended a rural public high school that is unknown. Only 66% go onto college. A handful every year go to very selective colleges. Perhaps one or two may attend an Ivy per year. My girls took the hardest courses offered at our high school and then some, including acceleration and independent studies, as well as long distance JHU/CTY. At the time, our school just had one or two classes with the AP designation but the rest of the hardest classes were all called Honors. I can tell you that the Honors classes were very challenging. I believe that my kids did MORE writing, for example, than what I have heard of kids doing in AP classes at some other high schools. My kids were very well prepared for college. My oldest applied to highly selective universities, including Ivies and got into most of her schools and landed at Brown. Could she hack it? Indeed. She not only got excellent grades, she won the top award at graduation for students in her department and is now in grad school at MIT, one of the top two programs in her field. She was at no disadvantage whatsoever at Brown in academics and was well prepared just like her many peers there who went to top private prep schools. My other kid wanted a BFA in Musical Theater program and not only didn’t our HS have a drama program (but did put on shows), but she got into almost all of her top BFA programs and won very large scholarships, including at NYU/Tisch where she landed and was selected also as one of 15 Tisch Scholars and won more scholarships while there and upon graduation. She got top grades at Tisch as well and was considered very advanced in her academic classes. She had to write a lot in high school and was better prepared than many students she encountered there who attended top private and public high schools. Excellent students come out of all sorts of high schools. And even unknown public high schools can offer challenging classes in their highest track classes, whether called Honors or AP. I truly believe that my kids’ academic records and extracurricular achievements could rival any student attending an elite prep school. We just did not choose to send our kids away to one. But they are still the same kids no matter what high school they attended. And in some ways, they were better prepared given the kinds of things that their high school courses required that I have not seen some AP students have to do, particularly the amount of writing. Just saying. </p>
<p>Anyway, all the rest that the adcoms shared is very true and again, if you read CC forums, you will see many of those issues you brought up discussed here a great deal.</p>
<p>PS…I will note that my kids also took the SATs in grades 7/8 as part of the JHU/CTY Talent Search but with no test prep and like you say, it did give them a baseline and an idea of what was ahead and so the thought of college down the line was on the mind but not specifically looking into colleges at that young age yet. But one unexpected thing did happen down the line and that is that our younger one asked us in tenth grade to graduate a year early and so we did not expect to start her college process that soon (we were in the middle of older D’s senior year college process) and so she ended up applying to college in 11th grade and went to college at age 16 and so one never knows the changes that will happen in high school back when one is simply an entering freshman. :)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I agree with this. Many people change a LOT between 9th and 11th grade, and I’m always afraid that people who get their heart stuck on one or a few colleges very early on might not be able to let go of that dream – even if by the time they get around to actually applying, that college is no longer the best or even a good fit. I actually have a friend at Wes who this happened to – her list was almost all quirky LACs, EXCEPT for her ED school, a larger, less quirky Ivy that had been on her mind since a college trip in 8th grade (she was wait-listed). In retrospect, she realized that that school didn’t really fit the person she had become.</p>
<p>I think it also makes the heartbreak of rejection worse. It’s one thing to work hard all of high school so that you can have good options when it comes around to applying to colleges, and then to pick a dream school in 11th grade. It’s another to work hard in high school for that dream school you fell in love with in 8th grade.</p>
<p>^^^ Agree. Though I will relate something about that…my youngest D (who again was not looking into colleges at a young age), did know about NYU/Tisch for her field (musical theater) due to having older friends for many years at theater camp who were going off to college. So, at age 12 and onward, she always said she’d like to go to NYU/Tisch, even though she was not researching colleges yet! We were in NYC and walked by NYU and she said (with her camp friend), “I’m going here some day.” Fast forward to her college process. While tempted to apply ED to Tisch, she realized she needed to explore many schools and so she did not do ED but rather did all RD schools so that she could fully explore all the options available. While she did end up at NYU/Tisch, she had come full circle from having explored all her options in depth and through visits and landed on the same choice that she had dreamed of at age 12 when she clearly was not even knowing much about colleges at all. And…now that she just graduated from NYU/Tisch, I must say, she found the perfect fit for herself and could not have been any happier with how it all turned out.</p>
<p>eifc7; I have enjoyed reading this thread. I have 2 daughters in college, one in LA and one in the Pacific Northwest. Neither are involved in Theater but I am! I was in college and contimue to perform with a number of groups/compies in the Bay Area (SF).</p>
<p>I have nothing to contrbute to the college discussion as it pertains to theatre schools but I just wanted to offer general college visit advice. You have mentioned a number of times about wanting to visit when school is in session. I think this is very important. It is crucial to get a look at the student body and get a feel for the campus when it is really humming wiht life. We started most college visits during the spring of junior year. We used both my daughters spring breaks to to some visits and then the following summer to do more. Though classes were not in session my D’s got a feel for things and after more research knew whether there was enough interest to apply. Since both my D’s wanted to stay on the west coast we were able to visit all schools they were interested in before applying. </p>
<p>One D applied to 8 schools, the other to 5. Once your D is accepted, all schools will have an “admit” weekend or similar event for admotted students. The LAC my older daughter is at now actually had a 3 day event for admitted students. They spent 2 nights in the dorms, ate in the dining hall and sat in on classes. Most schools will have events like this and these will be a big help in the final decision. She will be a senior then, in the last few months of school so it is normal to miss a day or two of school here and there for collge visits and overnights. This was time consuming and a bit expensive but we felt it was worth it to make the right decision regarding their 4 years of college.</p>
<p>So my basic advice is: get a list of about 10-12 school that look like probable good fits (safties, reaches, matches with good theater programs). During the next year possibly get the list to about 8-10 and visit as many as you can. By the time next fall (application time!) rolls around she will proablbly have an idea of which 6-8 or so she would like to apply to. Don’t worry so much about the final decision now. Apply, get accepted, then visit those that she gets accepted to again. It is very defferent visiting a school you have been accepted to. You hold the cards and they have to impress you. At that time she will probably have 2-4 that are rally top choices and in the end the decision will be pretty clear. Good Luck!</p>
<p>I’ve been gone for awhile and just catching up here…</p>
<p>SoozieVT, I’m a bit confused about NYU. I was just on the website, but it lists NYU/Steinhardt as having the vocal performance/musical theatre option and NYU/Tisch not having a musical theatre major. Can you explain the difference? How does Yale compare to NYU. Northwestern is the only one that also has broadcast journalism and theater at the same school which my daughter (right now) is considering.</p>
<p>Also, do you have any good recommendations for voice teachers and vocal coaches in NYC? We were using someone in the city but his rates were too expensive ($225/hr).</p>
<p>i have a lot of experience with actor training for theater, tv, and film. And I see most college theater programs as clubby with mediocre teachers, including Brown. If you want to learn to act and get work, move to NYC or LA and take private classes from pros…go to any local college for your liberal education. a few schools with good programs/instructors: Yale, USC, NYU. Acting is a trade, the best training is with professionals in real work, not college.</p>
<p>medavinci, </p>
<p>There are two different programs to major in musical theater at NYU. You can only apply to one, however. One program is in Steinhardt and is a BM in Musical Theater as part of a BM in Vocal Performance program (specialty is in MT). A BM degree is more focused on music, though there is some dance and acting training. </p>
<p>The other musical theater degree program is at Tisch. Tisch’s degree is called BFA Drama but ONE studio is for Musical Theater Training and their other studios primarily for acting. The MT studio at Tisch, called CAP21, is no longer going to be affiliated with Tisch for anyone who enters starting next year. HOWEVER, Tisch is replacing the CAP21 studio option with a brand new studio called New Studio on Broadway for Acting and Musical Theater. Indeed, Tisch offers MT training, and it is balanced between singing, acting and dancing, more so than the BM in MT at Steinhardt. The curricula in each program is what differs and the balance of the disciplines with Steinhardt being heavily focused on music as it is a music degree, not a theater degree. To be clear, while Tisch offers one MT training studio, there are students also in Tisch training at the other seven studios that are for BFA training in acting. Tisch offers both. You can be accepted for MT or for Acting at Tisch. </p>
<p>Your confusion may be that Tisch has never called its MT program a “Musical Theater” degree but rather all graduates from any Tisch studio earn a BFA in Drama but everyone who studied in CAP21 did a MT training program which is equal to a BFA in MT, but didn’t have that title to it. Tisch considers everyone training to be an actor and those in the MT training studio (up until now, CAP21…and then after now at New Studio on Broadway) are actors who train in voice and dance as well. My own daughter entered Tisch to study and train in musical theater (at CAP21 studio) and for all intents and purposes, that is a BFA in MT degree if you are in the MT studio, not the acting studios. The MT studio at Tisch is changing to the new studio but they have always, and will continue, to offer a MT training studio. My D trained in voice, acting and dance and is now a professional MT actor. </p>
<p>Yale is not like NYU, though both are great. Yale is a BA degree program and NYU is a BFA. A BFA degree program is a specialized professional conservatory type degree program requiring an audition to get in and where about 2/3’s (amount differs among BFA programs) of one’s coursework is in the degree program and 1/3 in liberal arts. Yale involves no commitment to the major upon applying and has no audition to get in and is not a degree in acting or musical theater. It is a liberal arts degree with a major in theater/drama. In a BA degree program, about 1/3 one one’s studies is in the major. It is a broader based degree and not a professional degree. Yale is primarily a study of theater but has a little MT training but no major per se in MT. Yale, however, has many fine extracurricular theater opportunities, including musicals. My daughter has several friends who chose Yale instead of doing a BFA degree program. The acceptance rate into Tisch for MT is harder (lower odds) than the acceptance rate to Yale University.</p>
<p>You mention your daughter wanting to study both theater and broadcast journalism and if she wants a double major or is unsure of her major, a BA is FAR more suitable than a BFA. A BFA in Acting or MT is a SIGNIFICANT chunk of one’s coursework. At many BFA programs, you could not double major. Tisch is one school where it is possible to do that but not that common to do so. </p>
<p>Northwestern is great for theater and it is also great for journalism but I am not sure you can do both there. I’m thinking not likely. You would need to inquire. </p>
<p>Your daughter is very young and so figuring out the colleges is on the premature side and her focus should be school and activities and then this other part will fall into place in two years. </p>
<p>Sounds like you are paying a huge fee for voice lessons, way more than I have ever paid in our state or in NYC.</p>
<p>I may be able to recommend some people. I am extremely busy at this time of year with my job advising students applying to college and I can’t honestly field a lot of volunteer emails as I am swamped and must devote the private communication to the students and parents I advise. I try to volunteer on CC to help out many people at one time, but can’t get into the nitty gritty of individual cases on the forum. </p>
<p>I HIGHLY recommend that you read the Musical Theater Forum and The Theater/Drama Majors forum on CC where there is a wealth of information on the questions you are raising and much more.
pacheight, </p>
<p>You are entitled to your opinion. However, there are way more than a few good colleges with fine training in acting!!! The best training is not necessarily outside of college as you suggest. Many who teach in BFA programs for Acting are professional actors themselves. My D just graduated from Tisch and all her faculty are professionals in the real world of theater. That is just Tisch. I can think of quite a number of top notch BFA acting programs in the country. Graduates of these programs get work in the field. Sure, one can get work without a college degree in acting. But the degree programs in this field truly can be a fantastic background. Speaking of my own kid, she was cast right out of college within days and got her Equity Card off the bat, as have many of her peers.</p><p>SoozieVT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR THOROUGH RESPONSES…PLEASE WRITE A BOOK??? YOU KNOW SO MUCH…and wow did it clear up so much confusion for me!</p>
<p>SoozieVT, p.s. I tried to send you a PM regarding college counseling…but it said your mailbox was full. Any other way to reach you regarding that? Thanks.</p>
<p>I cannot keep up with the PM box as it fills up constantly and I prefer not to use it as I have one personal email account and two work accounts, which is enough to check and handle every day (my entire job is online in fact). It is not appropriate for me to mention my work account here. However, as any CC member can do, click on my member name and scroll to “send email SoozieVT” and that will send an email to my personal email account. This is NOT the same as “private message.”</p>
<p>soozievt: you’re wrong. except for a very few exceptions such as NYU, Yale, and USC. MOST acting and especially MT programs are poorly run, doing more damage than good to the young people they are suppose to train. I’ll say it again, most programs are clubby and insular not really teaching the fundamentals needed to be a good actor. Acting is a trade! And better left to private trade schools run by working professionals. </p>
<p>Kids should go to college for a liberal education, but it’s not the best place to learn a trade. For example where would you learn carpentry best? Craft class in college or as an apprentice on a real job? Most theater and film actors learned on the job, many before they got to college.</p>
<p>pacheight…there is no right or wrong but it is a matter of your opinion vs. mine. </p>
<p>Some of the BFA in Acting and MT programs in this country are HIGHLY regarded by the theater industry and in fact, they cast these graduates frequently. Further, as I explained, at many programs, including the one my D attended, the faculty are working professionals, not academics. My D has worked with Broadway actors/singers, composers, choreographers, Tony nominated playwrights and directors, etc. at her college on a regular basis. </p>
<p>Acting indeed involves training. A BFA conservatory program offers training, and not simply the study of theater as a BA program might do. A huge number of hours are spent in acting, voice, and dance studios, as one might do if studying outside a college as you mention. These classes are not books, papers, and lectures. These classes are run by professionals and are studio based training. However, the student is also earning a college degree and taking some liberal arts classes and theater study classes. But 65-85% (depending on the college) of the coursework is in conservatory training. </p>
<p>I also do not agree about simply “learning on the job.” I believe for an actor, there needs to be a mix of training AND production work. This is what my own kid has done her entire life. She has learned a great deal on the job in her production work (I’ve lost count but likely about 75 various shows in her career so far and she is 20) but that alone was not enough. She learned a great deal in her BFA training about her craft and the technical skills of it. Production work (“on the job” as you call it) and training both are important. Production work alone really is not ideal without any training in the craft. </p>
<p>Casting directors certainly view the resume and expect to not only see CREDITS but also TRAINING (no matter where you get the training). </p>
<p>Frankly, I feel my D is very well trained. She had a lot of training and production work prior to college and a ton of it in college and is now a working actor, and got into Equity upon graduation as well as had various agent offers and signed with an agent. She is about to go out on a National Tour. Clearly, agents and casting directors value those trained in the BFA programs. Can you get cast if you just train “on the job”? Sure. But I’m glad that my D got an education that included excellent training. She is ready to hit the professional world of theater and is well prepared. </p>
<p>You say that most MT programs are poorly run…how come agents and casting people are flocking to showcases from some of the top MT programs in the country such as U of Michigan, CCM, Carnegie Mellon, NYU/Tisch, and quite a number of others in fact. They are seeking the talent trained at these programs. If these programs were so poorly run, the industry would not be flocking to the senior showcases for the industry in the city (my D was in the Tisch MT showcase and agents and casting people attended, as they do for many of the MT program showcases). My D was recently chosen to perform in Broadway Rising Stars at Town Hall Theater in NYC which showcased 22 recent graduates from various MT colleges, who were chosen by audition to showcase to the public and the industry. Every singer/actor showcased was a graduate of a MT program, not someone who learned on the job. I believe there is a reason the producers chose to showcase “rising stars” by picking some of the top graduates from a variety of college MT programs. If the talent coming out of these programs were nothing to write home about, you would not have agents attending senior showcases and events like this one either. Many of my D’s peers also signed with agents after they attended these showcases. If you just move to NYC and “learn on the job,” it can be harder to secure an agent, in fact. Not only did my D get signed, but casting directors also attended the showcase and have called her in for auditions. So, the industry is clearly interested in those who are being trained at these college acting and MT programs…for a reason.</p>
<p>i can’t believe you’re advising people. for instance your thoughts on casting…casting doesn’t care where an actor was trained, casting cares about 3 things: 1) do you fit the role description, 2) your working resume, and really only 3) that you get a cb and a booking. casting caring about where someone was trained/educated, please…</p>
<p>btw: i said NYU is one of the few exception, I assume your d went there, that’s good. and “on the job” in professional theater or film is mostly rehearsing with pro coaches…that’s training!</p>
<p>College is not where a kid turns into an actor</p>
<p>oh and casting flocking to showcases, that’s not true either. a few friends of whoever runs the program will attend, mostly 2nd tier agents, even at NYU. that’s not really a flock.</p>