<p>My daughter is a junior in high school and we are in the process of putting together a list of prospective schools. I've read a lot of threads on CC, and I really appreciate the time and effort other parents and students have put in to sharing their experiences with others.</p>
<p>We are looking for a liberal arts school with a strong theater department. Preferably east coast.</p>
<p>Here is our ever changing list thus far:</p>
<p>Brown - possible early decision (ED) choice - she spent summer there in theatre and loved it.
Northwestern - based on advice and research, also a possible ED choice - visit scheduled for October '12</p>
<p>Tufts
Williams
Bard
Wesleyan
Bates
Yale - has visited, but not the theatre dept. Loved the campus. Have gotten mixed reviews on undergrad theater.
Vassar
Skidmore
Columbia - has visited, but not the theatre dept. Loves campus and NYC, but concerned the City may be a distraction.
Barnard
U of Virginia - visited and loved the campus. New theatre under construction. Have heard theatre is not strong.<br>
U of North Carolina - visited and loved the theatre dept. No dance offered and that is a concern.
Carnegie Mellon and Boston U. - realizing these are conservatories, but have received advice to consider.</p>
<p>Any feedback would be GREATLY appreciated. I don't think we'll have the time to visit all these schools.</p>
<p>Does your d want to major in theater, minor in theater or take theater classes? Ultimately, when she graduates, what does she want to do? </p>
<p>For my kids, knowing whether they wanted to be urban or not was the most important factor in whittling down a list (my d-no–wanted a defined campus…my s-yes wanted the cultural activities of a big city).</p>
<p>Given her list, I assume her stats are really good which makes it a lot easier. Many of those “conservatory” type schools within a school also offer a BA which allows them to explore lots of other things (BU on your list comes to mind).</p>
<p>Pick a few schools that are vastly different and visit and/or have her talk to current students about their daily life so she can have a better idea of what she wants her college experience to be.</p>
<p>She wants to major in theater. She is considering a double major, but (through discussions with others) is realizing that a double major could reduce her flexibilty for academic exploration. </p>
<p>Her ideal would be to become a professional stage actress, but she seems to grasp the challenges of that profession. </p>
<p>She also enjoys writing.</p>
<p>So, I think it’s likely she would just pursue a BA in drama/theater while also exploring other interests.</p>
<p>There are many interesting discussions all over this forum about BAs and BFAs. The last word on the subject is that a student can study theatre and have a professional career through many pathways, and which one to choose is a personal decision. It sounds like your D enjoys academics and theatre, and there are many great programs at great schools. </p>
<p>I think the main question to ask herself at this point is what EXACTLY she would like to do with theatre while she is in college. Does she want training classes? Does she want to study it academically (the literature, history, etc.)? How much performing will make her happy? Does she want particular assistance when she is graduating on starting a career? These are the ways BA programs usually differ. Ones that lean toward training, performing experience, and a career focus are more similar to BFAs. Those are the schools you will see cropping up on this forum a lot - Vassar, Northwestern, Fordham, Muhlenberg, Skidmore, Bard and many others. </p>
<p>Many schools also have extensive opportunities to perform as a student, whether or not you major or minor in theatre. My older D went to Tufts, and our impression is that the theatre experience there is mostly focused on productions, particularly student-run. We’re not sure that the actual classroom experience, or the ability to work under a trained director, is as strong as at some of the other schools you mention. However, it is a terrific school academically, and there is plenty of opportunity to stay active in theatre.</p>
<p>Some schools do have flexibility between BFA, BA, a double major, or a theatre minor. I must note that BU is NOT one of those schools. You must be accepted by audition to study theatre. However, it has been mentioned here that the extracurricular theatre opportunities at BU for students not in the department are excellent, which is common at a large, high quality university.</p>
<p>My D (a rising college sophomore) applied both to BA schools and to auditioned BFA programs. She considered each pathway until the very end. Her choice ended up being a broad-based BFA balanced with an Honors College for academics, and she feels she has gotten the mix that she wants.</p>
<p>Also, if she will consider doing a few auditions, she should think about adding NYU Tisch. I think the idea of doing a few auditioned programs is a great one, for the experience and for having greater options.</p>
<p>I teach at James Madison University in VA… an auditioned BA she may want to look at if she is looking for a liberal arts university with strong theatre. </p>
<p>She may also want to look at William and Mary in VA. They have an on campus Shakespeare festival in the summer.</p>
<p>I have seen quite a few productions at UVA and thought they were good. In the bios of most of the actors in productions I have seen they are non-majors or double majors, but quite a few talented students.</p>
<p>I used to live in New Haven when my BF was at Yale Drama School for graduate study. I attended quite a few undergraduate productions as well as the drama school productions. I believe that some people are not happy with the undergraduate offering for theatre at Yale because they are expecting it to be like the conservatory training in the Drama School… which is graduate level. The undergraduate students and alums I have met and worked with liked the undergraduate drama program at Yale, because it offered the flexibility, academic study, and student run opportunities. A student wanting more of a conservatory experience might not like the undergraduate program at Yale.</p>
<p>I used to live in Saratoga, my BF went to Williams undergrad, and spent time at NY Stage and Film on the Vassar campus one summer. All have strong programs. Most of the Theatre majors from Williams I have met are double majors.</p>
<p>The undergraduate theatre program at Columbia is at Barnard. I have friends who teach in that program and have worked with alums who are top notch. </p>
<p>Can’t remember if Muhlenburg, Goucher, and Connecticut College are in her list. She may also want to look at Amherst if it is not already on her list. Great resources through the five college consortium. I know people who teach at Dartmouth and have met and worked with students from the theatre program there. May be worth checking out.</p>
<p>Not east coast, but Kenyon could be worth a look too.</p>
<p>We did visit W&M and attended a production of The Two Gentlemen of Verona. The play was terrific! Very creative with 1920’s costumes.</p>
<p>But, I gather from the festival program, that it would be unlikely that undergrads would be active in the festival. No?</p>
<p>We made the mistake of visiting W&M in the summer, which I will not do again - especially at a smaller liberal arts college. We had just come from UNC Chapel Hill where an acting professor gave us an extensive tour of their facility (which, in my limited experience, seemed exceptional). In contrast, the next day, at W&M, the theater dept office manager gave us a tour. The facility seemed very dated. During the tour the office manger bemoaned the department’s lack of funding. It was a bad impression for us. </p>
<p>The W&M experience has sort of pushed my daughter in favor of university over college; but I want her to see Williams, Vassar et al while school is in session.</p>
<p>Once she sees the facility at Williams, it will definitely be on her list! Do not miss a visit there! Be sure she reads about the summer theatre festival program Williams runs for its students, too.</p>
<p>Edit: wow. I just checked the website and they really need to improve it. It is difficult to find pictures of the facility from the theater page, since the link they give is not an active one.</p>
<p>Wash U. and Kenyon and others look fantastic. Our problem is time. We have one day in the the fall, which we’ve already scheduled for a college visit, and 5 consecutive days in the spring - not yet scheduled. In the spring I think we’ll have to visit NYC and New England schools in clusters - and I’m worried about cramming too much in to those 5 days.</p>
<p>Since practically every college/university has a theatre major, we found it very helpful to look at the course catalogs online. You very quickly can see what they offer - whether it’s more of an overview, a very academic approach, lots of hands-on experience, or a combination of academics and training classes. I do think a school where theatre classes are mostly bookish would be a disappointment for someone who does hope to act professionally. </p>
<p>Another aspect is whether they have classes in other areas of theatre than acting (directing, design, tech, playwriting). If they don’t, then it’s less likely students can be as effectively involved in productions than at schools where they are systematically learning those skills. </p>
<p>Productions are an important part of the experience - opinions vary wildly on whether “real” learning exists more in the classroom than onstage. It is a bit harder to get an idea of what the production experience, let alone quality, is like at a particular school. It’s hard to schedule all of your visits when you can see productions. My D was fortunate she was able to observe some rehearsals when we were traveling to schools, so that’s a good thing to ask about, too.</p>
<p>The other day we were glancing at the Forbes list, and I was quite surprised to see U of Chicago as one of the “best” schools for Drama (in a list of about 20). As an alum, I found it hard to believe that their approach wouldn’t be heavily academic. I majored in English there, and did take a lot of studio art classes, which were extremely hands-on and valuable, but I never knew anyone who was studying theatre there - or dance, or music performance, for that matter. I just glanced at their course catalog, and things have certainly changed in 30 years! They are a good example of a BA that combines an academic/theoretical approach with lots of experiential learning - the major is about 50-50. U of C has tons of other academic requirements, so in general the experience would be heavy on book-learning. But this is where the websites really do come in handy; you can practically outline your 4-year experience in advance, and make quite informed decisions that way.</p>
<p>I’m not recommending U of C in particular (although of course go ahead and look at it, especially if she wants that kind of academic experience and a larger U/larger city atmosphere). I’m just giving an example of one kind of BA approach. Another school that has been mentioned here is Boston College; I believe KatMT has worked with grads from there who have had great academics and great preparatory experience for working in theatre.</p>
<p>If a student attends a school like Williams, they are going to be onstage with very talented peers. To get into a school like that requires not just stellar academic stats but high achievement in ECs. Just like they will pick a star athlete over someone who is merely a good player on the high school team, so too will they be picking the theater kids whose resumes (or DVDs, as I think they allow artistic submissions) surpass others with perhaps similar academic stats but less record of accomplishment – or potential. </p>
<p>And, yes, Williams is isolated, but for an artist it is an incredible place to be. Williams really places a value on the arts, visual and performing. </p>
<p>Not to mention the Purple Mountains – stunning and offering great recreational opportunities.</p>
<p>Also, even if a program emphasizes the academics over the classroom training, if it’s a high level of academics and a kid who takes an intellectual approach to life, I think that they will find that the thoughtfulness and creativity of the students and professors will translate into an extremely vibrant theatrical life onstage through department and student-run productions.</p>
<p>Also, at Williams (and probably other similar schools) many of the Theater students double major. Very common.</p>
<p>I agree - to a certain extent. It’s an apples and oranges thing. My D had this exact issue last year. She was accepted to some very good BA programs - Brandeis and Bard, in particular. She would have had very intelligent, talented peers at both schools, academically and artistically. What made her decide against these schools was that the programs didn’t offer the theatre education or experience she felt she needed, which was an entirely personal choice on her part.</p>
<p>On the other hand, she is now at a BFA which is very artistically selective within a school which is not highly selective academically. This issue made her decision very difficult (sadly she was rejected by BFAs within more academically selective universities). What she has found is that many of her peers are extremely academically capable - many took the most rigorous HS curriculum, have numerous 5s on APs, are excellent writers, etc. They chose her school specifically for the BFA, and because of the generous merit scholarships for high-stat students. Many of her other theatre peers are not as academically capable, and they find the heavy reading/writing approach in this BFA to be a real challenge. But artistically there is no question than these kids are extremely able and committed. We all know “artsy” kids who are just not that interested in other subjects in HS (no matter how smart they are), and many of them head straight for BFAs where academics are not an important admissions factor.</p>
<p>Yes - at a BA at a top quality school, you’re going to have great peers, great profs, and lots of opportunities. What varies most significantly is the curriculum, and information about that is extremely accessible.</p>
<p>SDonCC, I didn’t know that about Williams, or it would have probably been on my daughter’s list last year! Oh, well, hindsight is 20/20, etc. Same with UChicago, Emmybet.</p>
<p>arwarw, you might consider adding Sarah Lawrence and Fordham Lincoln Center to your list.</p>
<p>My own daughter went into the college application process looking, as she had for years, towards a BFA acting degree, but over the course of the semester she realized that she would probably flourish in a program with more academics (she is also a playwright and wanted to be able to study playwriting, as well.) </p>
<p>She ended up auditioning for BFA programs and also applying for a number of BA programs. After April she went back and looked very carefully at Bard, NYU (where she could have double-majored in dramatic writing-- although it was not guaranteed.) She ended up choosing Fordham, where she was accepted into the auditioned performance and playwriting tracks. She starts in a few days-- very excited by her choice. FWIW, she is not Catholic. Fordham is a Jesuit institution, but the theater program seems to be very diverse. She is also very interested in social justice, something that is supported strongly at Fordham (and, as well, at Bard, and Sarah Lawrence, and several other institutions she considered.)</p>
<p>[edit] One more point, which I want to put delicately. My daughter sat in on some classes at non-auditioned BA programs and felt that the level of the students (not the faculty) was not on par with what she found at auditioned programs; this observation, although anecdotal, did factor into her decision. It could have been the individual classes that she observed, which were entry-level classes, open to any student.</p>
<p>Another thing for your D to consider is that there are plenty of training opportunities available during semesters or summers abroad. For example:</p>
<p>There are plenty of other opportunities such as these, it just takes some research! </p>
<p>So, my point is that even if a school doesn’t meet all her training needs, but seems perfect in other ways, the theater career doesn’t have to stall…</p>
<p>To OP about the summer festival at W&M… Friends of mine who graduated from W&M years ago worked for the summer festival. Not sure how common it was now or then. A JMU student worked as a performer at the W&M summer festival this past summer and said he liked it. Glad he did since he had to turn down the opportunity to go to the Avignon Festival in France to perform with the JMU/ Theatre Bacchus production of Servant of Two Masters :-). </p>
<p>Thank you to everyone so much for your input! This is a great resource.</p>
<p>SDonCC we did have NYU on our list. The community theater my daughter is active in is owned by an NYU grad who often casts a core group of NYU students and grads. These young adults are amazing, fun, talented and creative. However, the advise we’ve been given is that, although the NYU studio system looks great on paper, it can be hit-or-miss for an undergrad because of it’s large department size. Any thoughts on that? We still may visit.</p>
<p>glassharmonica - I can hear what you’re saying about nonaudition schools. I see that now with my daughter’s high school (it is not a performing arts high school). There is a core group of pretty talented/dedicated kids interspersed with some less serious kids. As an audience member it can sort of spoil the magic of the production. I imagine as a cast member it must be frustrating. My hope is that - as SDOnCC suggests - the talent level will be stepped up in college. Our best high school actor and singer last year is attending Yale and he is not majoring in the arts! It sort of blows my mind.</p>
<p>glassharmonica - Fordham Lincoln Center is on our radar - I want to learn more about it and possibly visit - Fordham attends our college fair day and my d will meet the rep.</p>
<p>EmmyBet - love the suggestion of comparing curriculams - we’ll do</p>
<p>As gh says, you will find schools later on that you wished you’d found earlier. It happens to everyone. But as you say, there are lots and lots of great schools, and I’m sure you’ll make a terrific list.</p>
<p>My D managed to figure out about 5 things she really wanted in a school - curriculum, location, etc. - and that made winnowing them out by reading websites fairly efficient. Some met her criteria better than others. We followed some excellent advice gotten during D1’s college search: If you WANT to go to all of the schools you apply to, you are guaranteed to be happy in the end. D definitely preferred some over others, but she did “love her safeties.” </p>
<p>In the end, location and campus life turned out to be quite important factors - another piece of advice we got was to remember you do have to LIVE there for 4 years - but in the end for her it was the program/curriculum that is the most important thing. She’s been able to deal with various frustrations and disappointments, but if she’s able to do work she wants to do, everything else is secondary.</p>
<p>She learned a lot about what program/curriculum appealed to her from reading the websites, the major requirements, programs of study, etc. Visiting helped a lot.</p>
<p>As long as the list isn’t painfully long, I’d say apply to a hit-or-miss school (as you seem to describe NYU for your D). She can decide later if she really wants to go. Most of the kids here apply to 8-12 schools, or even higher. One more or less isn’t going to be a huge problem. I also found it hard to discourage my D from applying anywhere because of admissions odds - the last thing I wanted to seem like was an arbiter of her talent. I left that up to the auditors to decide. Same with academics.</p>
<p>I agree with EmmyBet. I would keep the options open. The studio system at Tisch is what keeps the theater program intimate and personal. Personally, I think the size offers benefits – like exposure to a wider range of students and training options. The class size in the studio is similar to conservatory sizes, but there are different options for advanced training, and more opportunities to mix it up with different students. Some of the studios keep the same group for the two primary years and others shuffle them around. (ie, there are several sections of a grade within a studio). </p>
<p>I think one can argue that a small conservatory can get stifling – not saying it does necessarily – but there’s alot of us here whose kids are thriving at Tisch and have made so many wonderful friends and connections. </p>
<p>I didn’t mean to say that at a BA school everyone is going to be super talented or committed. The classes are open to all students. But, my point was that there will be plenty of students who excel in theater but chose not to go for a BFA, and if you’re at an uber-selective school like Williams, it is often the accomplishment of the EC that tilts you toward acceptance.</p>