<p>I was a bit confused about your post so ignore me if I’m off target ;). </p>
<p>My S and his GF are both metallurgists (material science). They went to Michigan Tech which is very similar to many of the schools you’ve mentioned. They have been very employable and everyone in their graduating class had jobs before graduation. S has a great job that he loves and gf just accepted a new job. She sent out all of 4 resumes before getting this job and the process was very fast. </p>
<p>This is a complete outlier school but one I thought I would mention. Lehigh, good material science department. I know they do a lot of research at the graduate level. The reasons I mention it is that they meet need, are looking for geographical diversity and have an orchestra. Not many music majors, so non-majors get to play. </p>
<p>Appreciate the firsthand experience of your S and his GF, deb922. I know nothing about engineering. Someone had just said (or maybe I looked up stats?) that metallurgic engineers aren’t in much demand. Good to know otherwise.</p>
<p>Lehigh-yeah, I did consider that, but… ok, I’ve been looking at Niche and eliminating schools that have too much of a drinking culture. While my son will no doubt drink, because of his diabetes, I think it could be a real bummer (and he agrees) if he’s at a school with a heavy drinking culture. He’d rather have one less pressure to deal with. Seems Lehigh might be like that? At least according to Niche.</p>
<p>I loved the programs at Dartmouth-they have a modified engineering major with studio arts-but couldn’t encourage my son to apply there because of the drinking culture. </p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback on why the 6 year graduation rate might be low at SD Mines. Makes sense.</p>
<p>I’ll talk with my son about Colo Mines.</p>
<p>And I’ll talk to my son about Case again. It does sound good. Maybe too intense, though? I read of how studying is all the kids do. My son doesn’t want that. He doesn’t mind working hard, but no MIT, Mudd, Caltech, etc. stuff please.</p>
<p>Bay, he’s applying as a freshman. He hasn’t graduated high school yet. Most schools, particularly selective ones, don’t mind if a student attends full time community college as long as they haven’t graduated high school. Only one school to my knowledge (which is decidedly limited) would count him as a transfer, but I’m sure there are others. I am not concerned about it. It was important for him to be full time this year, taking 6 college classes (three per semester), in order to see if he can work his way up to the kind of rigor an engineering degree might require. He’s also taking one homeschool class. </p>
<p>They’re not majorly hard classes except Italian, which he really does not like at all.</p>
<p>It was also a good way to get everything in for high school since he did not have a lot of rigor early on due to his vision and math disabilities.</p>
<p>Good points by Twoanddone and by UCBalumnus about the graduation rate. Being a small university, essential engineering courses at SD Mines typically are offered only once a year. This means that if a student takes a 6-month co-op for example, she may have to wait an additional year to enroll in and complete the course. That’s one of the drawbacks of a small college. Also, some Freshmen discover that Rapid City is not their cup of tea. Denver and Minneapolis, the nearest major metropolitan areas, are at least a 6-hour drive away. Reports have it that several women who began studies in August 2013 didn’t return for the Spring Semester. Women are about 25% of the student population and SD Mines is trying very hard to attract and retain more female STEM majors. Finally, engineering is a tough major. Mines is not known as a “weed out” school, but they do work you very hard. Thankfully, there is much in the way of academic support services. And the atmosphere among students is collaborative, not at all cutthroat. There are lots of very smart kids at Mines.</p>
<p>Regarding the relative lucrativeness of a metallurgy education; think precious metals, for example. Gold and other mining companies recruit SDSM&T kids, and offer a ridiculous first-year salary. Also, major industrial corporations still need experts in metal fatigue, welding etc. Also, I know the parents of a Metallurgy major at Mines who is an aspiring artist/sculptor. Kids tell me that the Blacksmith and Welding clubs are two of the most popular student activities at SD Mines.</p>
<p>“And I’ll talk to my son about Case again. It does sound good. Maybe too intense, though? I read of how studying is all the kids do. My son doesn’t want that. He doesn’t mind working hard, but no MIT, Mudd, Caltech, etc. stuff please.” </p>
<p>Know that CO School of Mines has intense, grueling academics. It’s not as competitive an admit as MIT etc, but it is still a very tough school. I know many bright students (including DD) who left. We visited Case, and DS attended some classes. But I don’t know enough to compare. To me they both seemed to have an intense techie vibe. Case however had many more music options (classes and ECs). </p>
<p>I think CO School of Mines does have a lot of drinking, or at least it did when I drank there. I was in school in Boulder, but we’d go to Mines at least once a month for a big party which would start on Friday, end Sunday morning, and then the boys (almost all boys back then, thus the need for the CU girls to come for the parties) would be back to business, studying from Sunday to Friday. Rinse, repeat.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to a school like Mines, but different engineering focus (ocean and aero rather than petroleum), and I believe there is quite a bit of fraternity partying too. Lots of studying, but parties too. Other than at the very religious schools, I think there is going to be drinking. My other daughter is at a university, and I think she has plenty to do without drinking, which is her choice. She can attend parties, but has also been to an art museum, movies, football all without drinking. She wanted a small school but is so happy she’s at a medium sized school because there is so much to do.</p>
<p>Oh gosh, LakeWashington, my son has <strong>always</strong> wanted to do blacksmithing! Just not much call for it around here in So Cal. :-)</p>
<p>I know there’s drinking everywhere. I think it’s just when the whole culture seems to revolve around drinking that would be a bummer. I kind of like looking at the stats on Niche as far as the drinking/drug culture. There are plenty of schools where it’s less of an issue. My MIT son has found plenty of non-drinking friends and activities, but there is a surprising about of drug and alcohol use there.</p>
<p>twoinanddone, I do think a medium sized school would be best, but not sure how many are out there. MIT, for my oldest, has been a great fit in terms of size. Being a mid-size univ. means finding plenty of variety and groups of students, but not so large that you get swallowed up in lots of large lecture classes.</p>
<p>But, likely my 2015er will end up at a large state school. </p>
<p>And engineering is only one major. I honestly see my kid shifting towards design/game design in college rather than engineering, but it’s too early to know anything. Come May, we might have a little more clarity. But I do know that at the schools that allow it, he would like to take a gap year.</p>
<p>USC is great in Music, Animation, Game design, Engineering. Affordability? IDK. They have merit aid and financial aid, but I do not know if they meet full need. It may be worth checking the NPC. Question: Why is UCSD free and UCLA $8,000. I would think any UC would (financially) be the same.</p>
<p>UCSD is the local UC, so my son would live at home and commute if he were to get in and attend. And apparently, there is a difference. UCLA was around 8K, UCI $9100, and UCD was about 10K. Maybe it’s based on meal plan and dorm plan?</p>
<p>Yes, USC has been on and off the list! It looks insanely awesome for the Interactive Media program, but I just think it’s unaffordable. It totally gaps us. The EFC I come up with is about 16K-too much debt, unfortunately, and I’m sure my son wouldn’t get a full tuition scholarship. Tough one to say no to.</p>
<p>My experience with MiraCosta was nothing but first-rate. The classes were small, the professors excellent, and matriculation to some top-notch schools (MIT, Smith, all UC’s). Is this his CC? Going for 90 (quarter) units and transferring as a Junior may be a better bet if he ultimately decides on UCSD and aid is all “need” aid. In fact, with his 40+ semester units, he is almost there already. Thankfully, that is a decision he can make in the Spring, when all offers are in. They are not part of TAG, but they have a different guarantee agreement. Good luck!</p>
<p>However, a student who was taking CC courses without following a transfer plan for a specific major may find the course selection to not cover all of the lower division requirements for his/her major as a transfer student. But s/he could enter as a frosh with a lot of college credit, some of which can be useful enough to allow graduating a few quarters or semesters early, if needed to save money.</p>
<p>I have heard great things about MiraCosta, but we are in the SDCCD.</p>
<p>Yeah, certainly community college is on the table as an option if nothing else works out, or even if it seems best, but ucb is right. As of now, he’s obviously not matriculated, and frankly, the transfer process is pretty intense. I don’t know too many who didn’t end up taking a good deal longer than they thought.</p>
<p>Also, some of his courses won’t transfer because he was testing the waters to see what he might like. So, for example, he took Intro to Engineering, Animation and Architectural Drafting to see if he might like these as majors. None of those classes will transfer. So, except for physics from last semester, only this year’s classes will transfer. That would be only 26-27 units, depending on if pre-calculus would transfer if it’s a less academic major such as animation. If that transferred, it would be 31-32.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, have you checked out the IGETC (Intersegmental General Education Transfer Curriculum)? All UC’s have contracted to accept a completed IGETC as full completion of GE requirements, regardless of major. This is a guarantee that did not exist some years back.</p>
<p>One advantage of this (perhaps not for @sbjdorlo’s DS) is that an AP-heavy applicant can satisfy specific CC IGETC course requirements with AP credit, and thus complete the IGETC quickly and move on to upper division courses in his/her major upon transferring. Without going to community college (i.e. going directly to UC), those APs would count as a lot of college credit, but would not satisfy GE class requirements, so all the GEs would need to be satisfied by taking actual courses at the UC. </p>
<p>In addition, all those credit hours are not banked against the maximum unit limit that UCs impose (i.e. one has to leave the UC after earning a certain number of units), and transfer students are not subject to the same “satisfactory progression towards degree” standards that freshman admits are, so there is added freedom there. Add to that the smaller class sizes for lower division classes, and the passionate professors (well, some, that are working professionals doing a class or two on the side, for example), and CCs are not worthy of the disdain frequently heaped upon them. And now, Gov. Brown signed a bill authorizing CCs to grant four-year degrees!</p>
<p>Yes, I know about IGETC. However, it is not necessarily the case that the OP’s son has been choosing CC courses to fulfill all of the IGETC categories (although some can be transferable for subject credit against breadth requirements at whatever four year school he eventually goes to).</p>
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<p>Actually, UCs do expect transfers to complete their bachelor’s degrees in a reasonable amount of time. For example, Berkeley L&S says that frosh entrants are limited to 130 units if they take longer than 8 semesters, while junior transfers face the same limit if they take longer than 4 semesters. The unit limit does not include AP credit or college courses taken prior to high school graduation, or CC units after 70 units have been earned.</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus, other UC campuses are not as generous regarding “unlimited units” and cap the units regardless of duration to complete them. I was speaking of “satisfactory progress towards degree,” a detail of academic advising, probably not worth debating here, since it will likely have little impact on OPs decision. In brief, students work with an advisor on an academic roadmap that they update every quarter (semester for Cal). There is an audit of the number of units accomplished each period that are on the path to the degree, and students not making satisfactory progress towards a degree are flagged.</p>
<p>My suggestion was that OP could look into a community college (going forward) to satisfy IGETC and transfer to a UC for the upper-division courses. This would save $$ overall, let DS stay at home where he is comfortable and supported, and may have the additional benefits I listed. IGETC is great because it holds UC accountable that they can’t later say “oh, policy changed, we no longer accept those courses to satisfy XX requirement.” Part of my point is that the student does not have to carefully follow a transfer plan for a specific major and campus, and worry about mis-steps and non-accepted units, to get all the GE’s out of the way (before transferring, one would have to pay attention to which lower division courses the major wants before coming, however).</p>
<p>It is not such a seamlessly good idea for non-UC schools for the reasons you state, so this works best once/if the OP and DS decide that UC (or CSU) is the path of choice. Transfer rates are great (28% at UCLA) for high-achieving students, and application deadlines for CCs are on (or after) the first day of classes allowing the decision to be pushed way off.</p>
<p>Yes, it is true he has not chosen his courses with an eye on transferring since he hasn’t a clue what major he wants. It has made it very challenging. He could take art for animation and ID, calculus for engineering, or Java for CS/game design, but he only has so much room in his schedule. </p>
<p>Since he <em>really</em> is fascinated by certain types of animation (think League of Legends), I think he will take Italian 102, Calculus I, and 2D Art in the spring (he’s never had any formal art, though he draws creatures continuously). We really don’t care about transfer units. He just needs to continue to get exposure to ideas and good training, so he can ultimately figure out what direction he wants to go.</p>
<p>2D art would transfer to some schools, as will the other two classes, I think, so it seems like a good schedule (except for Italian which he hates…but oh well. I feel like he needs the two semesters, which = three years of HS).</p>
<p>I see now. Before, it looked to me like you were suggesting that he apply as a transfer after this year (when he almost certainly won’t have IGETC or major preparation courses complete), as opposed to continuing at a CC and then transferring later, after completing IGETC and major preparation courses. Continuing on to CC to transfer later is certainly a valid option.</p>
<p>A note on IGETC – some divisions or majors at some UCs do not accept IGETC (although specific CC courses would be applied to specific breadth courses), or there may be additional breadth requirements beyond those that can be satisfied with IGETC (e.g. upper division requirements). <a href=“http://www.assist.org”>http://www.assist.org</a> will indicate whether IGETC is applicable to a given major and campus.</p>
<p>I don’t really get how Assist works for the UCs. I’m looking at the Design/Media Arts BA at UCLA, but I don’t really know what I’m looking for and what the information is telling me. Say my son wanted to do CC to UCLA in this major. How does one find out via Assist if it’s possible?</p>
<p>One this is that my son <em>right now</em> is a strong candidate for freshman UC applicants given his SAT score, GPA, and other stuff. Not sure, but I’ve heard of 4.0 students getting rejected as transfer students to SDSU. So, it seems there’s conflicting information. ItsJustSchool quotes a transfer rate to UCLA of 28%. So why would a 4.0 student get rejected from SDSU? It doesn’t make sense to me.</p>
<p>Where are the stats that tell of transfer admissions rates? Is that available on College Data?</p>
<p>At any rate, as of now, my son is applying to colleges as a freshman. I think a 2230 SAT is too good to not try. I’m not knocking CC to transfer. We know lots of kids who do that. It’s just not my son’s first preference.</p>