<p>My son is putting together his college list. So far he has a few dream colleges (Stanford, Caltech, Harvey Mudd), but we'd love input on mid-tier colleges to investigate:</p>
<p>Brainy peers and challenging curriculum
Collaborative, not cut-throat
Small to mid-sized (low student to prof ratio)
Research opportunities for undergrads
Merit aid would be nice, but not a deal breaker</p>
<p>On his transcript, he will have several APs (Calc, CS, Physics), high SATs, advanced courses in math and CS, and research experience. It's possible he may go on to grad school. </p>
<p>Our state schools (UC system) are budget impacted, so they are very unappealing right now. We'd pay a boatload with on time graduation unlikely. </p>
<p>If you want to stay on the west coast, Santa Clara and University of Portland both have solid engineering programs and are what you might consider small to midsize. Portland recently opened a fabulous new engineering building.
Merit aid can be generous at both.</p>
<p>Worchester Polytechnic, Rochester Institute of Technology, RPI (please don’t ask me to spell it!), San Luis Obispo, Rose Hulman, Illinois Institute of Technology, Georgia Institute of Technology.</p>
<p>If engineering is the focus, nearly any state flagship will have a solid program, for comp sci, U Md (College Park), Purdue, UC San Diego, U Mass Amherst, U of Wisconsin, U of Washington (but they may limit comp sci majors if I remember correctly) are ones you might look into, though they are not generally small to mid size.</p>
<p>You might want to reconsider the UCs since they’re known for excellent engineering/CS programs. </p>
<p>If one is focused, enters with a number of AP credits, and doesn’t switch majors a couple of times, (and doesn’t have to repeat classes they failed), they can graduate in 4 years or worst case, maybe adjust if needed by taking a couple of courses during a summer or two. Some end up taking an extra quarter. For a full pay student it’s still much less than many of the privates. The funding/scholarships are key in determining this though.</p>
<p>UCLA, UCSD, UCB and the some other UCs are all highly ranked for CS. They also are in demand in the workplace and can do well with grad schools.</p>
<p>The UCs aren’t small to mid-sized though, obviously, although within the particular CS program it’ll end up to be fairly small, especially after the early attrition.</p>
<p>The UCs are tops for research so if your S is motivated to be involved in that at some point he may be able to find opportunities.</p>
<p>The 3 UCs I mentioned are NOT mid-tier though - they’re top tier and very selective so your S should make sure he has some safeties selected as well whether he applies to these or not because these wouldn’t be considered safeties. Of course, Stanford is unpredictable and very selective. Harvey Mudd is very selective as well.</p>
<p>You could visit a few of the top UCs though and see what they have to say. If your S applies to the school of engineering at some and is admitted they usually have a special visiting day for admits with the engineering focus where some of these questions can be asked. Maybe they can provide some current graduation stats for the particular major he’s interested in (it’s important to see the stats for the major since this stat can vary a lot with the particular major).</p>
<p>You might want to add USC to your list. Their engineering is pretty highly ranked. And take a look at CalPoly - SLO.</p>
<p>Rice is known for giving a lot of merit money, and it gets a lot of brainy people in the technical majors. Northwestern has a very fine engineering program; it has a more small college feel than a state flagship. University of Chicago is great for math. However, NU and U. of Chicago might be pricey.</p>
<p>The UC’s are probably worth the cost if you are going into engineering.</p>
<p>Actually, UC four year graduation rates have increased over the years, despite the defunding over the years. Berkeley and UCLA have among the highest four year graduation rates of public universities in the US (around 70%). Of course, this likely has a lot to do with admissions selectivity – more selective schools have higher four year graduation rates.</p>
<p>You have not mentioned cost constraints, so it may be hard for others to suggest what schools may be less expensive. UCs do tend meet full in-state need based on FAFSA EFC but expect a student contribution of $8,500 - $9,500 (the range of expected student contribution tends to be $4,000 to $10,000 at “meet full need” schools – Virginia unusually was $0, but is raising it to $7,000).</p>
<p>If you expect to pay list price, some other schools like Minnesota, Virginia Tech, Stony Brook, and NCSU could be price-competitive. But their four year graduation rates may not be that good, due to lower admissions selectivity (e.g. Minnesota’s four year graduation rate is only about 55%, despite offering a four year graduation pledge program).</p>
<p>If you are concerned about class sizes, you need to look at the schools’ on-line class schedules rather than making assumptions based on the raw size of the school or students/faculty ratio. However, note that if he has placement into more advanced courses, he will likely skip some of the larger frosh-level courses.</p>
<p>Do not ignore some of the upper Midwest schools for excellent math, engineering and comp sci departments. Look at the grad school rankings for these fields and you find some of the flagship U’s outrank some of the elite privates. UW-Madison (Wisconsin) has excellent programs in those fields and an excellent Honors Program. Undergrads come from both coasts as well as the Midwest. Consider how Honors courses are run at various schools as well. UW Honors math majors may be taking several grad level math courses at a top 15 or so school as undergrads. There will be enough people of his caliber to form a good peer group at large flagship U’s if there are also different levels of the entry level courses- ie calculus, chemistry and physics have at least two or three options to meet the needs of different students.</p>
<p>Definitely agree with the class sizes needing to be checked for specific courses. A large introductory level lecture may also have much smaller discussion groups. Also- the TA’s covering those discussion groups at a large U could be the future professors at the most elite U’s in the country (look at where those Harvard/MIT et al professors in a field got their PhDs).</p>
<p>Look at requirements for graduation in various fields. Also consider if math, statistics and comp sci get their own departments and/or buildings. Look at courses available. Some U’s may put comp sci in engineering, others in letters and sciences or whatever the equivalent is called. Look at the numbers who get their degrees in fields he is interested in. Larger numbers can mean more undergrad opportunities for academic clubs and a larger same interest peer group.</p>
<p>Once the academics have been considered the social aspects of best fit need to be considered. All people are multifaceted- he needs to consider which schools have clubs et al that may interest him. Minnesota and Wisconsin currently have tuition reciprocity so local HS students choosing one over the other can be quite passionate about the differences- every school has its own flavor. </p>
<p>It is good he is looking at college without being too specific in his major. Consider the physical facilities as well- do the departments seem to get what they want… btw- UW limits the numbers in a couple of engineering fields to ensure those students are able to get the courses they need. These in turn are limited by physical facilities- science and engineering labs can be very expensive and crowding them won’t give the best experience. If your son has the interest and ability this won’t hinder him.</p>
<p>Another thought- how soon does he need to firmly declare his major- how easy is it to change majors at schools? He doesn’t want to be locked into engineering or math without being able to switch fields once he narrows his focus.</p>
<p>Specific schools to consider are Wisconsin, Illinois (Champaign-Urbana, with firsts as a computer science dept), Michigan and Minnesota. Purdue in Indiana is that state’s science/engineering flagship while the others have both that and the liberal arts in the same flagship. The campus culture varies at each school. Do NOT be afraid of “party school” reputations. Consider how the campuses are split up and if this matters, eg MN has the Mississippi dividing it (but with pedestrian bridges) while Michigan has two separate campus areas. Illinois is in the middle of cornfields. WI has a lake and hills. So many nonacademic factors to consider.</p>
<p>Also- how does he feel about Greek influence on campus? It varies from virtually none to significant. Housing- most UW freshmen will live in the public dorms while most upperclassmen will live technically off campus (which can be closer to an academic building than dorms)- this is different than eons ago and not to be worried about. Cars on campus? Not at UW, and most students stay on campus most weekends. </p>
<p>I would look at the grad school lists for fields that interest him and choose some schools ranked among the top 10-20 in several fields. I favor schools with grad students as the opportunities to work in research or take grad level courses exist at those schools. Large U’s are composed of many smaller units, do not be afraid of them. There is often enough diversity that it doesn’t matter if a huge group follows a sport, there will be enough that don’t.</p>
<p>To look at other state schools and ignore the strong and mid range UC’s that have good engineering depts is pretty crazy. Especially when trying to avoid ‘boatloads’ of money. For a smaller UC for CS look at UCSC.</p>
<p>Another vote for Rice because it is small and strong in STEM. They are generous with merit money if you qualify.</p>
<p>What about Carnegie Melon?</p>
<p>I wouldn’t write off the UC system so quickly either. Can you find folks who have had good experiences there, graduated on time, and find out what they did? Unless you get a big merit scholarship, in state is probably the cheapest option, and the California schools are good. </p>
<p>To go in a wholly different direction, what about an Honors program in a big school? It goes against your desire for a small school, but you might find a program that is small enough it will feel like a small school. And you might get some merit money to make it competitive with UC.</p>
<p>Check out University of Pennsylvania. Awesome engineering particularly Materials Science. Lots of research money so lots of opportunities to work in labs for undergrad research. Professors’ education and accomplishments are impressive.</p>
<p>californiaa…the Santa Clara suggestion was due to its engineering programs which are well regarded. DD graduated with an engineering degree from there…DH IS an engineer and was most impressed with her program of study.</p>
<p>She thought Caltech and MIT were awful. What’s wrong with a campus that has beautiful grounds and facilities? Santa Clara has both.</p>
<p>I’ll second Carnegie Mellon - it’s at the top of many CS lists. You may also like the University of Rochester - some parents on here have students in math/engineering there and are quite happy with it. Both schools depend upon whether you want to cross the country… U Rochester is very close to RIT, so it’s easy to visit both if in the neighborhood (airport is very close). CM is in Pittsburgh.</p>
<p>OP,
“Computer Science, Engineering” - does he know how different these are. I am the one who absolutely hated Engineering and after 11 years of working in a field and realizing that I am not fitting there, I went back to school in my mid 30s and ahve been happily in IT, where I tryly belong. Got to be very clear, Engineering is NOT for every person who loves Math (like me, who still helping anybody with math questions, just give me a textbook, I will figure it out). Engineering is very difficult and require certain personality. IT is FUNNNNNN!!</p>