<p>Schools that say they look at the entire application (such as Duke, Stanford, etc.)...do they still give more weight to grades/test scores?</p>
<p>Grades? Yes. Test scores? Not necessarily.</p>
<p>I think so. JHU "says" that they have holistic system and that tests scores aren't everything. Yet when you look at the student profiles, most of the students have high SATs. So, that kind of makes me doubt their credibility.</p>
<p>The "Holistic" is just the latest buzzword for near total URM admission subjectivity for the AD COMS -with a non-URM tossed in once in a awhile to confuse matters a bit</p>
<p>Not entirely true - UChicago has been holistic for forever - when they discuss grades and test scores, they discuss context and essays and rec at the same time. Somewhere on here there was an article about it. But then, you have to be pretty high level to get into UChicago no matter what - a few bad grades won't kill you, or even disciplinary actions, though.</p>
<p>Just trying to counteract Citation's cynicism.</p>
<p>What about Stanford/Duke and Ivies? Those are the schools I usually hear the word "holistic" coming from. And are UC's based almost entirely on stats?</p>
<p>ok Univ of Chicago tends to be an exception - however this renewed emphasis on "holistic" admissions with the many of the top 30 to 50 or so universities and colleges is w/o much doubt a defensive strategy related to the race based admission issue </p>
<p>The lesson is: stay away from objective (univ of michigan style) point systems</p>
<p>The reason those top schools use a holistic approach is because they have an overabundance of top students. They can't base their decisions solely on stats, because every 4.0/2400 student in the country applies to those schools. The holistic approach comes in, then, because they need to distinguish between all these top students in other ways.</p>
<p>That having been said, an URM may not need sky high test scores, but they'll at least need to be high (over 1900 would be my guess). Plus, every student - top scorers and others - will need to show commitment in their school and community, etc.</p>
<p>I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are asking because your grades or test scores are not the best, those things are certainly considered at those top schools. However, there are lots of schools, especially LACs, that are extremely holistic.</p>
<p>"holistic" in my opinion is total BS...even if adcoms say that they look at everything in a holistic manner, it's not true...an SAT score sticks in people's minds...thats why you rarely see 2000-2200 scorers get into the top schools (HYPSM)</p>
<p>
[quote]
What about Stanford/Duke and Ivies? Those are the schools I usually hear the word "holistic" coming from.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Their holistic, but with the general expectation that you have mostly A's and 700's at least on most of your SATs...though of course, legacies, URMs, athletes, and outright intriguing applicants will still get in without those things. But for most, you've got to have good test scores, got to have good GPA.</p>
<p>edit: to confirm, I was talking about Ivy-level schools.</p>
<p>UCs arent based entirley on stats</p>
<p>Perfect scores don't always matter, many get rejected at the super-elites -however for URMs' oddly enough it all of a sudden does matter. However don't expect HYP to release the number of URMs with perfect scores (or even with SAT scores over 2250) they actually rejected</p>
<p>The number would be near zero</p>
<p>According to the Yale common data set, 22% of the entering class had below 700 scores on the math and verbal portions of the SAT (this is from their 2005-2006 CDS). So to say that you rarely see scorers in the 2000-2200 range at HYPSM is not true, unless you think one out of 5 is "rare."</p>
<p>"thats why you rarely see 2000-2200 scorers get into the top schools (HYPSM)" </p>
<p>What you actually mean is you rarely see non-URM admits below a 2000 to 2200 range, and since approximately 1 in 6 admits at the super-elites are URM status, it's hardly surprising that Yale (for example) would have 1 in 5 of their entering class having a math and verbal below 1400 (old scale) or (presumably) below 2100 on the new scale. </p>
<p>Don't expect these colleges to breakdown SAT scores between non-URM SAT scores and URM SAT scores - it's better for their PR efforts to keep it all muddled. "Diversity" doesn't mean disclosure.</p>