We visited both campuses…with different kids…but we were there.
The kid who visited UMD really liked that campus, the location, and for him…the new at the time performing arts center.
The kid who visited William and Mary agreed it was a great school…but described Williamsburg as “like Disneyland for Senior citizens”. She said…it was just too sleepy a place, and too small.
Both are fine schools. Let your kid choose…but there is more variety of students, majors, and stuff to do near the UMD campus.
Bigger school than you are looking for, but I would add Ohio State to your list. With being full pay and your budget constraint, I think it might be a good match/safety range school. Also a strong chance at some merit aid. One of the highest ranked( graduate) programs that have a 100% chance of being below budget.
If he wants to pursue a Ph.D. in pure math, undergraduate research and graduate-level courses as an undergrad will give him a huge advantage in the application process. My daughter has run into many prospective Ph.D. students who feel their LAC background has put them at a disadvantage in the application process for top-tier programs because of the lack of undergraduate research and advanced coursework. For that reason, and because UM-CP is known as a “math” school, I vote for UM-CP over W&M.
@planit According to the NSF, W&M produces more STEM PHDs per capita than any other nationally ranked public university other than UC Berkeley.
UMD produced 1,216 STEM PHDs during the study period, W&M produced 718. Undergraduate enrollment is about 28,500 at Maryland and W&M is about 6,300. That means W&M produces about 2.7X as many STEM PHDs per capita as Maryland.
Not really a great comparison, since you are comparing STEM PhD production to total undergraduate enrollment (rather than STEM undergraduate enrollment). Also, math is a relatively small major even within STEM subjects, so whatever you find with respect to STEM may or may not be reflected in math.
My D, a Senior at UMD, has worked with several Grad students on Research Projects over the past 2 years. In her experience, it is common (she would even say expected) that students would pursue Graduate Degrees at Institutions other than the one from which they got their Undergraduate degree.
UMD generally admits 425 Freshman Math Majors every year and graduates about 125 students with Math Bachelors Degrees every year.
@IzzoOne , I don’t think the number (per capita or otherwise) of Ph.D. graduated from either school is the issue, since it would be relatively rare for any student to pursue a math Ph.D. where he got his undergraduate degree. I am just passing along a concern my daughter has heard from multiple math majors as she’s traveled this path. She is graduating from a decidedly non-LAC research U and headed to Stanford for her Ph.D., so in her literal and figurative travels, she’s learned that, when applying to fancy Ph.D. programs (the term they all use), your undergraduate research experience and upper-level course work matter. Now, if the OP’s son wants to go into industry instead of academia, there are piles of Ph.D. programs that are more forgiving. If he wants to leave the door open to academia, he needs to go where he can pursue undergraduate research and take the most graduate-level math classes.
Thanks all, this discussion is very useful.
PhD in Math… we’ll cross this bridge when we come to it. Students are much more likely to change their initial major than to get a PhD in anything. Therefore, quality of majors outside of math is also a factor, but it’s not helping us decide, because both schools have strong programs across the board.
Please keep posting… I promise to update this thread after we make the enrollment deposit!
The size and prestige of one’s undergraduate institution – even for someone who intends to get a PhD and work in academic mathematics – are less important than what has been stated in this thread. It is far more important in my opinion to find an institution that is a good fit, where the student will be happy and thrive. Mathematically you can do absolutely no wrong with either of those departments, so pick whichever school makes most sense and feels most like home to kiddo and family.
One could argue, @IzzoOne , that the students at W&M need to get PhDs while the student at Maryland do just fine without additional education, that they find jobs, that they feel the BA or BS is good enough. I don’t believe that but it could be argued. I think it is much more likely that the students at W&M are traditionally younger students (18-22y.o) so head right to graduate school while those at Maryland include more students in many more areas where advanced degrees aren’t needed immediately (engineering, education, agriculture, accounting) or more non-traditional students (older, married, transfers from cc) who can’t afford to go directly to grad school.
One thing to consider as well is how hard it is to transfer to different majors within the university. My son went in as a tentative engineering major, switched to math, then switched to comp sci. At many schools that wouldn’t have been possible.
My D is having a great experience at W&M. Since there is not a lot to do in Williamsburg, the students make their own fun through performance, sports, and volunteer work.
She started as a math major, then switched to econ. She felt that W&M math major sequence was too focused on pure math, and she realized she like applied math more. For the one semester she was a math major, she said class sizes were small and you got a lot of attention from the professors. It is very easy to double major at W&M. Many students do research with their professors (less competition from grad students.)
If you go to the admitted students day, the departments will have breakout sessions where you can meet the professors and ask about the programs. I’d encourage you to go with your student so you can see the advantages of a smaller university. And go to UM-CP as well to compare.