<p>SLUMOM, I just notice that you did mention that you need to visit by 1/31 if you are a senior. I noticed that the bar to keep merit scholarships at Elmira is steep (ie: 3.3 for the 18,000 trustee scholarship). Does anyone happen to know the average % of need that they meet, and what % of that is grants vs. loans?</p>
<p>I also noticed that 3.3 requirement for their merit scholarship retention. It is the highest I've seen anywhere. 3.0 is the standard most places. The median GPA would be an interesting question for one of their admissions folks. If they suffer from chronic grade inflation (like many private colleges trying hard to retain students), 3.3 may not be an issue.</p>
<p>I don't think Elmira posts stats on percentage of need met, but here is a link to the NCES data on the school</p>
<p>College</a> Navigator - Elmira College</p>
<p>I like this site because it has just about every school's data available. Just fill in the search critera and away you go.</p>
<p>If you look at the financial aid area for Elmira, it appears that just about everyone gets institutional money and most get loans. As to whether they gap and if so, how much, I cannot tell.</p>
<p>And it is 28.8% male according to NCES.</p>
<p>Oops northeastmom. I didn't realize you were already drilling NCES. Duh!</p>
<p>BTW, I participated in one of their online chats a while back, and their FA folks were very cagy about answering the question of whether merit aid is applied before or after need-based grants.</p>
<p>If I had to guess, your total aid package (merit + need-based grant + loans) is likely to be packaged by the candidates desirability. I would guess that higher achieving males with athletic and leadership credentials (yes I know that NCAA prohibits the consideration of athletic skills at D3, but lots of winking goes on) will get better packages (less gap and loans).</p>
<p>Actually, I wasn't, but I should have gone onto NCES. Thanks for the reminder. I think that schools that set the bar at 3.3 are using a lure rather than a scholarship that they would expect most students to hold onto, but that is just my opinion.</p>
<p>Cross posted with you, goaliedad. I don't like cagy either. They should be straight forward, but most schools, I think first award merit aid. If need is met after merit, it is met. Many applicants and parents do not understand this. Then they wonder what was so great about getting a merit award. Clearly there can be advantages to a merit award, but not if it is pulled for a sizable % of students who are not meeting the 3.3 requirement (I was looking at one of the more sizable awards. As one gets less, the gpa bar is lowered). At least they post this all online. I need to give them credit for being very clear about one can hope to get. Many schools do not disclose parameters for awarding merit aid.</p>
<p>That may be very true considering their pretty weak 4, 5, and 6 year graduation rates. I think there probably are a few who lose those 20K scholarships and end up transferring out.</p>
<p>If I recall, 25% transfer out. Now I may have touched upon the reason. Get below a 3.0 and the scholarship is finished. Their average FA grant is a bit under 16k. If one had a scholarship for 18k that was pulled, then there is a big difference in cost. Even that 2k for OOS students who visit would need to come off the FA package.</p>
<p>In regard to merit & need based aid, I believe I read in Kalman Chany's book "Paying for College Without Going Broke" (Princeton Review) that your EFC is usually not lowered because you are given merit aid & need-based aid. If you are a desirable student and they want you to enroll, possibly your EFC could be reduced. I am not really very keen on merit aid, D#2 got mono her freshman year at SLU and it was a struggle for her to finish everything. All her professors knew of her illness & so on & everybody was very lenient about deadlines etc. My H and I were both very relieved at this time that she had not received any merit award. That is always something to consider about merit awards, the student has to stay healthy to maintain a certain GPA to keep the award.</p>
<p>SLUMOM, Your EFC is what is used to determine your need. A merit scholarship can be used to reduce need.</p>
<p>SLUMOM, may I ask you if the counselor had any opinions about Elmira? Also, since you have lived in northern NY, what have you heard about this school?</p>
<p>I am so sorry that your daughter had to get mono her freshman year. I am happy for you that it all worked out. You have an excellent point about needing to stay healthy to keep the award. I have a friend whose D lost her merit award due to psychological issues after being the victim of a violent crime. The school did give her an extra semester to pull up her gpa, but they pulled her scholarship mid sophomore year (just long enough for her to be counted in the freshman retention stats). Unfortunately they are upper middle class and live in a newer home that had rather sharply in value (this was before the real estate bubble burst), so they did not qualify for aid financial aid. This is what made the merit scholarship particularly appealing. Now her younger sister is going to apply to schools, and their opinions have soured on private schools because of the lack of financial help. Their younger D will only be looking at public Us.</p>
<p>I do think that a 3.3 to keep a merit award is way too high.</p>
<p>LOL, D's counselor is an Elmira alum, so I think her opinion might not be objective! I have never heard anything negative about Elmira College when I was growing up in Northern New York. Our housekeeper's daughter at our vacation rental (we go back to same house year after year) is a student at Elmira & loves it. When I was in high school and junior high, many of our student teachers came from Elmira or SUNY Potsdam. Yes, I do think that a 3.3 is just way too high too, the normal GPA always seems to be 3.0 for maintaining that award. That may be an unrealistic GPA for students to keep. </p>
<p>I look favorably upon NY schools (as my 4 children point out to me) but that is just because of my NNY roots-I am a Syracuse alum, my brother went to Hamilton, my other brother went to SUNY Oswego, D#2 is at St. Lawrence. So many people who I went to high school with are alums of Colgate, Cornell, St. Lawrence, Hobart, Clarkson, Vasaar, Union, University of Rochester, R.I.T., Skidmore, Hamilton, Union, Alfred, Wells, Hartwick, Ithaca and so on, that I always seem to prefer NY schools. </p>
<p>D #2 resisted & resisted looking at SLU (probably because I suggested it) But it has been a wonderful experience for her & she graduates in May 2009. But I doubt she would ever turn around and tell me I was right about it being a good fit for her!</p>
<p>SLUMOM, thanks. It is good to hear some positive feedback. The reviews that I have read have been a mixed bag. Do you happen to know if your housekeeper was happy with their financial package? Did she get a scholarship and was she able to keep a high enough gpa to keep her award?</p>
<p>How do you feel about Oneonta? We looked at it when we looked at Ithaca and Elmira. We have a relative who graduated from Oswego. I think it just gets just too much lake effect snow. LOL, I saw a video online right after they had a snowstorm. It scared me away. We have seen Hartwick. It seems very nice, but my son has it off his list for a variety of reasons. He did like Elmira a lot.</p>
<p>Yes, the D of our vacation rental's housekeeper was very high up in her class, so she received a lot of merit aid & they were very happy about it. She has done very well there at EC, a brillant young lady. </p>
<p>Oneonta has too many bars, although they can't get into them until they are 21.
A friend's son had trouble graduating due to not completing an internship, so it took him about 5 years to get his degree. But my friend says that wasn't SUNY Oneonta's fault, that was her son just proscrastinating. I personally never cared much for the town of Oneonta, just didn't find it very attractive. Of course Hartwick is there too, but so many stairs to navigate, you need to be a mountain goat! Hartwick is on D #3's list, but I am not thrilled about it -their financial aid formula isn't kind to our wallet. They use the Federal Methodology & we would have to pay a lot more. We prefer D#3 apply to the IM (Institutional Methodology) schools that use the CSS Profile or equivalent. (their own form) But ultimately it is her choice, H & I just keep making suggestions & so on. To think our son is a junior & we must navigate the whole process again, but he is the end of the line, thank goodness. </p>
<p>I think Elmira still has Saturday classes for freshmen, rather an archaic setup, but I read somewhere maybe that is to keep the kids from leaving for the weekend & encourages them to make friends.</p>
<p>That is true, Elmira still does have Saturday classes, freshman writing if I remember correctly, and I agree that it does seem a bit outdated. However, as SLUMOM aptly points out, it does help keep students on campus during the weekends, which isn't a bad thing.</p>
<p>I think that is an excellent thing! I am sure many freshmen would disagree. ecalum, do you think the high rate of transfer is related to students losing scholarships? </p>
<p>SLUMOM, lol about the mountain goat! I agree about the stairs!</p>
<p>I think that attributing the high transfer rate to students not doing well enough to keep their scholarships is probably accurate. I suspect some parents encourage their children to go to the school that offers the best scholarships even if it isn't their first choice, which usually backfires in the end because if the student is unhappy than his/her grades will often suffer accordingly. Not all 18-year-olds are mature enough to forge ahead despite wanting to be somewhere else.</p>