<p>My son was pretty happy with his March scores, as were H and I - 99% on M and CR, and a 680 on the writing portion, for which no percentiles will be available until November. His college counselor remarked, however, that he might want to retake the test to bring up the writing score.
Now, I generally respect this counselor's advice, but I don't understand this. The information from the CB gives the "range" of scores for a 680 as [640-720], which means that his writing score should be considered within this range. It makes no sense to me that my S should sit through another 4 hours to try to bring his score in line with the other two, especially when I feel that his scores in each area represent him pretty accurately as they are.
What bugs me the most is that he was happy with what he got, but now feels it might not be good enough. :( He isn't interested in HYP - maybe Dartmouth, but favors Berkeley, Wustl, and the like. )
I told him that it's his decision, but that I think his scores are fine.
Don't you other parents agree? My gut tells me that if he doesn't get into Dartmouth, it won't be because of his writing score. Also, I can easily imagine him working hard to bring up the writing, and going down in one or both of the others. Although some schools "cherry pick," others, like Berkeley, don't. Agree?</p>
<p>I don't understand why you give us some of his scores (Math and Critical Reading) in percentiles, and the Writing section as a raw number. It makes it difficult to put his scores in perspective.</p>
<p>That said, 680 is on the low side for the Ivies - but perfectly admissible to the other schools you mentioned. Even at the Ivies, such scores would hardly make admissions impossible, especially if your son has another "hook."</p>
<p>If you compare the writing score with the SatII writing, 660 is superior, but not quite elite school clincher. Unless he has other interesting things going on, I don't see that he is 'in'. I agree it is worth a retake.</p>
<p>But my kid decided not to retake the SATI after a 1490 score. She just didn't think it necessary. I though she could improve, but, again, she could have but didn't want to waste time at a school that made such distinctions. SAT II's were in 700 range.</p>
<p>Let me add one thing:</p>
<p>I just got done with the admissions process and was very satisfied with how it turned out. However, had I not gotten into my top schools, I know that I would have regretted NOT re-taking my SAT (I considered it at one point... I had a 1530). This has nothing to do with whether or not a 1530 is a good score; rather, I knew that I personally could have done better had I put in the effort. </p>
<p>If your son is dissapointed because the score he got is the best he can manage, you should praise him and move on. However, if he feels like he could manage a better score, you should encourage him. You don't want to wonder in April, "what if" ?</p>
<p>My 2 cents...</p>
<p>Is the SATII writing exam still offered as a separate test? If yes, could this be taken as a supplement? If no, then I'd say most likely forget retaking the whole thing. It seems to me that one could prep to improve the CR and math portions, but that it would difficult to improve the writing substantially. And as you note, he could possibly backslide on the other sections.</p>
<p>The SATII Writing used to be an important benchmark for selective colleges. At this point we don't know if they will view the writing portion of the SATI the same way or more holistically as a total. It's too early to evaluate the significance of different scores and different totals on the whole application process, but I'm sure over the next 8 months we'll hear a lot about this. </p>
<p>The final decision would depend on his numeric scores and also on what general field he plans to pursue. E.g., physicists can get by with weaker verbal skills than philosophers.</p>
<p>I always thought my son could have done better on the old SATI. He took it twice, improved nearly a hundred points the second time and adamantly refused to go through it again. It turned out he was right; apparently it was good enough.</p>
<p>The SAT II writing is no longer offered. It has been replaced by the new writing section. There are no percentiles offered for the writing because it is new. CB says percentiles will be released in November. I would not retake the new SAT based on that writing score. I think most colleges will be in limbo on this new test and not heavily weight that part of the test for this next year.</p>
<p>I could not even tell you in what capaity Dartmouth would use the writing score. In the past a 770 on the verbal and a 5 on either of the Ap english exams got you an exemption from English 5 (Expository writing). Starting with the class of 2009 there will no longer be and exemptions from this course.</p>
<p>The SATII Writing has been discontinued.</p>
<p>680 is a respectable score, but the GC is probably basing his/her advice on the notion that psychologically, it is far better to score over 700. I dont'know about UCB but you may wish to take a look at scores for WUSTL applicants. Many applied to HYPSM as well. For other schools that are slightly less selective, 680 would be an excellent score and therefore your son would have no need to retake.</p>
<p>My son ment into the admissions process this year with a 790 verbal, 780 writing and 670 math. He had a 750 math IIC.</p>
<p>He was advised by several people, including Marite, that he should probably retake the SAT to bump the math portion up. Anyway, due to timing issues drama and other SAT II's - and a general fed upness with standardized testing - he didn't. He was accepted at UChicago - his first choice - but waitlisted at Carleton and Bowdoin. </p>
<p>I agree that its miserable to have to take the test to just go after the writing, but unless you can ferret out that Dartmouth will ignore the score, he should probably contribute more money to CB.</p>
<p>In some of the articles recently about the new SAT, I have read that some schools (HY?) are not going to use the writing portion this year in admissions - don't feel they have enough info to evaluate students on it. I would check this out if you are even considering a re-take. I hestitate to jump in on the re-take question, but do want you to see how much it even is going to matter at schools of interest.</p>
<p>Ohiomom: All's well that ends well! Chicago probably considered the 750 on the Math IIC to trump the 670 on the SAT-M, while others may have paid more attention to the SAT. The advice I relayed came from my older S's GC. </p>
<p>There is an article in today's NYT about the new SAT. Colleges are likely to be as confused as students as to how to interpret the essay score. So maybe the 680 will pass muster everywhere as adcoms discount the value of the first batches of new SATs.</p>
<p>Marite -
"All's well that ends well" - ain't that the truth! </p>
<p>A.S.A.P
UCB will take the best single sitting score, Dartmouth will cherry pick. Maybe for now, your son should concentrate on the other aspects of his app, including the SAT II's. Come fall, when he is narrowing his list, he can decide whether or not to take the beastly thing again. By that time, a little more info will be available as far as how the colleges are looking at the test, and especially the essay. Your son will also have the benefit of another few months in english class.</p>
<p>The thing with the essay is that it is your ability to write to spec that is being tested. The essay should be technically proficient (and, ahem, long), but it doesn't have to be the most brilliant thing that came down the pike. Anyway, good luck with whatever your son selects. I'm glad to be over the admissions hump. On to sheets and mini-fridges.</p>
<p>One last note one testing gamesmanship. If the SAT is the last standardized test your son will take, he can send the colleges the SAT results before the retake. Then, he takes the SAT, and only sends the scores after he sees the results.</p>
<p>I would say he does not NEED to retake these tests and only should if he wants to. It is hard to say without knowing the actual scores he got on the math and verbal part as you gave a percentage but I will assume those were quite high. He would be all right in my opinion, particularly for the schools you mentioned. If he has done well in English courses, that is another indicator. As others have said, this is also a new test and that makes it harder to evaluate this score this year. If it helps you any, and I normally do not share my kids' stats, but my older child, currently a freshman at Brown, did quite well on her SATs (not in the stratosphere that some on CC seem to get and think you MUST have to get in) but her SAT2 writing score was a 690 and she only took it once and had no inclination to do it again. You have to remember that colleges will look at the entire "package". This kid had straight As in the hardest classes, was val, etc. etc. She happens to be a very good writer and is getting A's in courses with lots of papers at Brown. This test just was not the best indicator of her writing skills. If a child has very good scores on the verbal and math, as your son does and my D did ,and high grades in the most challenging courses, a very good class rank, and great ECs and great essays, having that score on the writing section is not gonna knock him out, I don't think. Each school also weighs different things as important. My other kid got a 790 on the Writing SAT2 and I don't think any of HER schools could care as none required it, so go figure. Truly, I don't think you need to obssess about this one score which in my view, is still very good but even more so in light of the fact that the other scores are quite high. If he can write excellent college esays, that also will balance it out. I think my older D's essays showed she is a very good writer. I personally think the SAT2 essay would never show me if a kid was a very good writer because it is SO formula-like. For instance, I saw practice essays my younger D did for the SAT2 (did a couple practice tests at home) and she obviously followed the format very well (got the highest score you can get on that part on the real test) but her essay was not NEARLY as good or as indicative of the way she truly writes or wrote her college essays. It did not allow for that level of writing, in my opinion. It basically just required a thesis and supporting statements with examples. But her essays for college applications show me way more than that. They are completely at another level of writing (better). That is just my opinion but I offer it because perhaps an adcom also would look more with interest at the actual essays on the application more than that Writing score which already is quite decent anyway. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Thank you all for your responses! As you can see, there are many ways of looking at this, which is why it's an issue at all. I don't like posting my kid's scores for privacy reasons, which is what the percentage posting was all about. I thought that would give everyone a good enough idea of what his other scores are. The SatIIs he's taken are over 750, but, unfortunately, he didn't take the writing last year when it was offered.
Ohio_mom- I hadn't thought of your suggestion, but it seems like a good one, especially if his final list of schools includes selective schools like Dartmouth. He could send his scores in the early fall, and retake in October. If his scores drop, no harm done.
Susan, you are so right about the essay being unrepresentative of what most kids are capable of -although in his case it was the multiple choice portion that brought him down. He actually is a pretty good writer, if personality and content and style are the qualities being judged. He receives As his English assignments because he cares enough to put in the time it takes to do a good job. He uses the rules in his writing, but finding mistakes in other's writing, like the mc questions on the test, are not his strength.
I think I should sit back on this one and see how he feels as time passes and as he develops his notions about what schools he want to appy to. In the meantime, he has several APs and a couple more SATIIs to take which may help him decide if it's worth it for him to retake SATI. If he does, he can do it late in the game so he can send them only if the outcome is an improvement.
Thanks again, all!</p>
<br>
<p>My gut tells me that if he doesn't get into Dartmouth, it won't be because of his writing score. </p>
<br>
<p>I don't think you can assume that, particularly if you're a white, suburban family. If your son believes he can bring the score up, and if he continues to be interested in schools as selective as Datmouth, then I'd give the same advice as your guidance counselor -- with the understanding, of course, that the sky won't fall if he doesn't retake or if he doesn't get into that kind of school.</p>
<p>ASAP...actually come to think of it, when my older D took the SAT2 in Writing, she got a very good score on the essay segment but got some wrong on the part you are talking about for likely the same reason. I was only commenting above of my take on the essay portion because it is only indicative of a certain kind of writing and while important, does not give the full picture of how good someone writes overall. But yes, those multiple choice questions looking for errors or whatever, was something my D was not as good or familiar with but again, her score served her just fine as she got into several very selective schools including two Ivies, rejected at Yale (after being deferred....) and waitlisted at Princeton. I personally do not believe the 690 in the writing SAT2 test was the deciding factor. The rest of her app had high achievements. I think it is the total picture and even THEN, you can score an 800 and still not get in, lol. As a point of reference, my other child had a 790 on that test and plenty of other excellent test scores and at Emerson College, while she did get in, she did NOT get into HONORS College there and her qualifications were WAY beyond the norm there, go figure. She got honors level awards at more selective colleges in fact. Clearly the 790 score was not the end all and be all!</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>For the UC's, and Berkeley in particular, a 700+ would look much better for a non-hooked applicant. Since the UC's pushed for this change, it is likely that they will look closely at the Writing score. Moreover, since they will not look at earlier versions of the test, ALL applicants scores will be from the same test and test conditions. Berkeley's adcom was quoted in the paper as saying that he thought the Writing MEAN would be 700-710.</p>
<p>At our HS, the ONLY thing that appears to differentiate the UCLA acceptances from the denials (out of our top 20 (BWRKs) was the SATII Writing score. 700+ = acceptance, otherwise, sorry.</p>
<p>a</p>
<p>My son also took the March SAT. Scores were 740 (M)710 (V) and 700 Writing...with 73 out of 80 on the multiple choice and an 8 on the Essay.
We're going to wait till the dust settles about the essay section and we know more about how its scored and how to properly structure the response before retaking..meaning..he's skipping May and June and retaking in Oct.
Since he has a very specific major in mind (Sports Management) we have already identified his target schools.He also wants a certain atmosphere (big school sports) and certain size (bigger..not 2,000 size)and setting.(non urban..wants a "campus") He's well within the range for his targets..weighted right now is 98ish non weighted is 96ish.Takes AP's but not taking SAT II's.Hoping to combine Honor's College avilabilitye withsome merit money.Haswonderful focused EC's..state level officer for Key Club,national committee for them as well, Varsity Captain for non NCAA sanctioned sport (roller hockey) and also employed within his sport.
Hope our strategy works!</p>
<p>Similar to cathymee - D had an excellent score, but she was a tad disappointed in writing and math. Still, her scores will not discount her in the admissions process. So she will be taking SAT2s in May and June along with APs in May. If she still feels strongly about it and is up for it, she can retake the SAT in the fall. I think at that point she'll be tired of the testing process and I'll be surprised if she retakes.</p>