<p>Who knows what my daughter will declare as a major? Beyond the pre-med grouping of required science classes she has loved calculus, economics, piano and her French classes thus far. She went in as a possible biology major with the intention of applying to medical school. She still plans on med school but wants to major in something outside of the sciences because it will be science, science, science in med school and the pre-med grouping seems (to her) like enough science as an undergrad. This week I think the plan is to major in French Lit. I can see the future already. She will sing her patients' French lullabies as she prepares them for surgery.</p>
<p>I have always been bothered by the randomness of the college selection process. The random part I am talking about is that no matter how scientific your selection process is, when you actually visit the campus the child's experience is often heavily biased by a chance encounter. If 2 students in a row say hi you think it's an amazingly friendly campus. If you are unfortunate and run into the campus a-hole you might never want to return. If you make the wrong selection in the cafeteria you might incorrectly assume the food stinks. Most colleges seem to be aware of this risk and choose tourguides carefully and try to manage the process to their benefit, but I am still constantly amazed at some of the "deciding factors" in choosing a school.</p>
<p>yeah if it's a rainy day and they see someone who looks too different and they don't want to get out of the car. What's a mother to do? You want them to be happy but it's so irrational. Maybe they will let me select spouses for them.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see what my 10th grade D ends up using as criteria. So far her only expressed desire, other than it be affordable, is that the school be far enough away from home that her parents have to fly to visit.</p>
<p>heh where my daughter wants to go to school is with a good marine biology program preferably Hawaii
I would rather I not HAVE to fly long distances to get there.
then again I will be sure to go for parents month!</p>
<p>DCMom, you are not alone. When we visited Mount Holyoke, D got of the car with considerable reluctance. It was just far too rural for her. When TheMom asked an admissions officer if there were any more tours that day, the D complained, "Mom...you shouldn't have asked...if they have it we'll have to take it." NYU was the one campus where she didn't feel connected to any other student there for the info session. Thing is, that's just one of many luck-of-the-draw factors. (Admittedly, our group represented a great job of casting for a movie: the son sitting with arms crossed while his father asked questions, the breathless blonde getting on her cell phone to her father after asking about sororities, the very serious Asian male asking about career placement at graduation.) It didn't help that the person presenting the session was a graduate student who hadn't gone to NYU for undergrad and didn't know the answer to a lot of questions...D started a tally sheet and counted something like 81 "umms" in 20 minutes.</p>
<p>All I can say is that after my experience with kid #1, I don't give a hoot where kid #2 decides to go (as long as we can afford whatever she chooses). It's not the college choice criteria, it's the fact that teenagers go through a lot of changes, especially when they are living in a new and different environment - so picking a college based on what the kid thinks she wants at age 17 is not too much more reliable than picking the school based on what the kid is interested in at age 7. I think what's more important is that these are criteria that provide some comfort level to the kid during the search process, and helps bridge the transition from living at home to being away ... by selecting for the ballet program or the basketball team or the biomedical engineering program, the kid knows there will be other kids there with shared interests --- if nothing else works out, something familiar or desired to fall back on. As long as the selection criteria isn't so narrow as to exclude good schools, it is probably as good as anything else - after all, it's probably the biggest decision the kids have made in their lives, and they need some way to feel that they can make an informed decision. </p>
<p>By the way, I decided on my college choice at age 14 based on something I saw on a t.v. documentary, chose the college for its pre-vet and environmental sciences department, started college at 16, washed out of chemistry after 1 semester, and ended up with a fuzzy social sciences major and going to law school. I had a blast along the way, wouldn't wanted to have gone anywhere else, and had a great group of friends who are now corresponding regularly by email after we all found each other for a recent reunion. </p>
<p>The point is -- once I got to college, things changed - a lot -- but the changes were influenced by what was AT the college. I took classes my friends recommended, or enrolled in classes in subjects I wasn't particularly interested in because everyone said the prof was so amazing... and basically, my new interests were shaped by the environment I was in. So it really doesn't make much difference, in the long run, whether the college is "right" ... as long as its a place where the kid can grow and explore, and most colleges fit that bill. Even if it doesn't work out, that can be part of the learning & growth experience.</p>
<p>I can't even figure out what attracted my kids to one school over another. DS loved all seven schools to which he applied. Six were his number one choice at one point during his process (the seventh was his safety school). He was very specific...wanted a terrific private music teacher and an urban campus. He got both. DD is very different. She is looking for location, location, location, with warm weather as a criteria....and the ability to play her oboe as a non-music major. We went on a seven school trip this past summer. She helped choose the schools. When we got to University of Richmond, she didn't even want to get out of the car. Sorry...we said...we have an appointment and you're going. She hated the place from the first impression, although I'm not sure what she didn't like at that first glance. At the end, she said the school was too conservative (it is), but I can't imagine how she knew that from the looks of the brick buildings and gardens. She refused to get out of the car at Wake Forest (no appointment so we didn't force the issue) again...she just didn't like it. The tour guide at Elon was not the most inspiring, but she didn't like the place anyway. She LOVED Davidson which was a real surprise since her other favorites were within walking distance of a real good size town, and were much larger. In the end, I wonder what will be her deciding point....next year about this time, I'll let you all know!!</p>
<p>This is an interesting thread. We've had our share of "I'm not getting out of the car" visits as well. </p>
<p>A few things seem to consistently be on her list of "must haves", however: (1) a traditional 2 semester schedule (she hates the idea of tri-semesters) (2) ability for non-art majors to take art classes (3) study abroad options that include short term programs run by the school (i.e. teacher led study trips)(4) boys (5) real closets in the dorm rooms (since she NEVER hangs anything up in her closet at home I am not quite sure why this matters to her :) ) (6) a movie theater near by (she is not convinced that colleges really do show films on campus) (7) an airport within a 45-minute drive and some form of convenient shuttle service to and from campus. </p>
<p>Some things she'd like to have, but they won't be deal breakers: access to horseback riding, nice neighborhood surrounding campus, lots of trees, feeling that campus is self-contained, no heavy frat or sorority scene, no girls with designer pocketbooks (her ultimate test)</p>
<p>My daughter judged colleges we visited by how many students she saw smoking outside the buildings (she can't stand being around smokers). I told her that the smoking frequency she observed was probably affected by whether it was raining/cold or sunny/warm that day, so her observations shouldn't be the ultimate deciding factor.
As far as closets, when I picked up my son from a 3 week summer program at a college when he was younger, the room looked very neat when I entered it. It turned out that all of the clothes, clean and dirty, were PILED in the bottom of the closet !!!!</p>
<p>Yes, the process always reminds me of the story about the blind men grabbing hold of the elephant -- and deciding what it looks like based on the tail, the leg, or the trunk. One school was crossed off because the COVER of the viewbook did not mention either of two of S's areas of interest. Another because he "couldn't imagine" going to a school with that name. At some point, I think they are just so overwhelmed that they are grabbing for ways to eliminate possibilities, rather than to add them. </p>
<p>MotherOfTwo, your daughter might consider that the schools where the students are smoking outside are the schools she WANTS to go to, because the others are schools where the students are smoking inside, including the dorms.</p>
<p>Calmom and Thumper, I had to laugh, DD's experiences are much as you both described. Calmom, while she is just now a senior, and sweating ED, her criteria have slowly, methodically changed since she started looking last year. I almost hope she doesn't get into her ED school, because by the time next fall comes, that may not be what she wants either! We emphasized to her the importance of having a "group" at college, a group to identify with at the start, and grow outward from there.
Thumper, the I don't want to get out of the car was Haverford, mainly because we realized we parked in the wrong place. The things they seize upon to like or not like are just random! It doesn't build confidence in the final decision, except that, in the end, they must decide for themselves to have any shot at being satisfied. Only a few more days for this decision.</p>
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<p>Another because he "couldn't imagine" going to a school with that name.<<</p>
</blockquote>
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<p>Actually, I agree on this one. I've always considered place names to be important. If the name of a street or town is too goofy-sounding, I won't live there. Same could apply to a college. IMO, their names are serious handicaps for some otherwise good schools such as Harvey Mudd or Rice. I'm perpetually reminded of that George Carlin joke: "This football score just in: Rice 24, Macaroni 14. </p>
<p>The same principle might also apply to schools that nobody knows how to spell, e.g. Bryn Mar.</p>
<p>Coureur - I had to laugh, because I was talking to my daughter on IM about colleges the other day, and mentioned Bryn Mawr ... her reply, "Where the hell is bryn mawr? How do you even pronounce that?"</p>
<p>My favorite bad first impression story was about a friend of my son's who was driving with his family from Amherst to Williams and saw a bear at the side of the road. They said get me outta here and made a fast U-turn back to civilization. He's now at JHU where he feels secure in the urban jungle.</p>
<p>When my son was looking at a list of Catholic colleges like Salve Regina, Misericordia, Catholic, Holy Cross, Sacred Heart, his reaction was that the first step those school should take to up applications is to change their names.</p>
<p>TheDad ~ Thank you for your post; it was timed perfectly to help us at our house. I am one of the many parents who followed your daughter's saga last year in an attempt to become current with what was going on in college admissions. I'm delighted to hear that Smith is working so well for her! I have to say that I am stunned to hear that ballet could just fall away from your daughter's program after one semester. I think this indicates that I need to loosen up my thinking and remember again that these are very young people. But after all that effort last year, the injury, all of the events that you and she went to together...it's an amazing event to hear that ballet could be out of her program.</p>
<p>Your post arrived at a key moment. My 11th grader who has been single-focused on computer science for six years was suddenly wondering yesterday if engineering might me better for him...I just about fell out of my chair. But as I was sitting down reflecting about TheDaughter at the critical moment, I was open to the idea that he should explore broadly and find his passion. Thanks for posting at just the right moment!</p>
<p>Our funniest by far was at Reed. We really, really wanted it to work, as it wasn't too far from home. I'm sure others might find it an exciting place (actually, I know many do), but the tour and presentation we had felt like a caricature. Outside every entrance there were huddled groups of smokers (it was last December), and the student lounge reeked of tobacco smoke (younger d. couldn't enter because of her asthma, and this was a year after bans on indoor smoking had gone into effect in Oregon.) Inside the library, at the entrance, was a "students stimulants table" (it was the week before exams). The tour guide, who was very enthusiastic, and had been there for a year and a half (and was from NY), told us he had never been to downtown Portland, but that students not only did the required readings, and the recommended readings, but then searched for every possible reading they could find, and played a game of intellectual one-up-manship (he seriously thought it was a good thing.) He told us of the self-flagellation march (literally) that students hold in handing in their theses. The adcom told us that 3/4ers of Reed students had played some kind of musical instrument before coming to Reed, but there were only 30 people in the Reed orchestra. Then they told us about the Gray bus (named after some alum?) whisking away students suffering from nervous exhaustion to a place in the mountains where they feed them chicken soup. (I have no idea whether this is true, but this is what the tour guide told us, and he said it with a very straight face, and showed us info. about the mountain retreat.) I have more - and we were only there for under 3 hours.</p>
<p>On the way home, our younger d. promised to be good the rest of her life if only we wouldn't send her there.</p>
<p>So far, for us, the search criteria have been spot on. (now THAT'S a scary thought.)</p>