<p>Okay, D is nearing the end of her first semester at Smith, almost deliriously happy. But just as some people can't help picking at scabs, I can't help doing post mortems. Which is kind of nuts, considering that she's deliriously happy so that obviously, for her, the process worked. But.</p>
<p>As those of you who followed her saga on the Old Board last year may recall, the uncompromising criterion of her search was access to high-level ballet coupled with high-level academics. Georgetown? None on campus...the 30 minute bus ride up Wisconsin Ave. too much of a time sink...Out. George Washington, only elementary and intermediate ballet on campus, a longer bus ride, Out. Brown...off-campus ballet company/school near enough but she didn't like the style of the company...Out. Bryn Mawr, insufficient on campus, problematic otherwise, Out. Tufts, ditto, Out. Didn't apply to any of them. You get the picture.</p>
<p>So this year she's taking ballet first semester but may not be able to take it second semester because of schedule conflicts and, well, the academics have priority and maybe she'll take Modern Dance or Fencing instead. </p>
<p>Now I don't quarrel with the decision...but given that decision, her stubborness about that criterion a year ago just doesn't seem justified.
And in that light, I'm reallyreallyreally glad things worked out for her at Smith.</p>
<p>And before you reply, yeah, I'd like eggs in my beer.
(Actually, I don't drink beer much and that sounds kinda revolting.)</p>
<p>It just puts the process and decision making in an odd perspective, imo.</p>
<p>That's a great story! A real lesson for the selection process, as well.</p>
<p>If I see one flaw in the selection process by kids and parents here, it's focusing too heavily on specific programs ("which schools have great Economics departments") rather than stepping back and looking at the big picture. The reality is that most kids' interests will change.</p>
<p>There's also a moral for the college admissions departments and their efforts to "build a class" by filling slots. The laugh is on them if they had pegged your daughter for the "ballet" slot, huh?</p>
<p>My daughter had to have a study abroad. Big priority. Now a college sophomore she says the chances are slim that she'll be able to do one. And she's not even upset! Of course, she's befriended a student from India and REALLY wants to visit her.</p>
<p>TheDad, your comments are interesting. Like many parents on this board I thank the heavens daily that things worked out so well. My son was interested in art studio & art history and strong programs preferable in both was a criterion. Now into his second year he is absolutely smitten with his BOTH studio and art history courses and hes really, really glad that he didnt talk himself into going for a college that didnt offer much in the way of one of the two. The perceived negatives that he feared in his ED choice, have either become non-issues or non-existent, so again, hes glad that he wasnt swayed by stereotypes. </p>
<p>Eggs in my beer is a new expression for me. Could you explain?</p>
<p>Yep, that's the way it goes. But if they are at a fine school that is a great match, who cares? I know a young man who drove his family nuts wanting access to a great microbiology program. He was not accepted to his State U that had such a program because the line for it was so long and he had uneven grades. So he went to another flagship school after getting turned down everywhere else, and doing two sets of apps, so determined was he, and my friend chewed her nails down to the quick because he did not get into his school until late June, but into a fine microbiology program he did get at a premium price over his own state u that probably would have taken him as a general major. He changed his major within the first month after all that. And I have seen kids do this many, many times. The real kicker is when they drag it out to the end, then decide to transfer right after parent's weekend!</p>
<p>I don't about eggs in beer, but post-election, my Dad was tickled to see James Carville smash an egg on his bald knob. (Don't worry, when his rabid Democrat mama gets ahold of him in the great beyond, there will be hell to pay).</p>
<p>Ballet would be tricky--though heaps and heaps of athletes drop their college sport. I'm sure we would be in the same boat if S had decided to stick with engineering. Luckily, he toured a premier engineering school and didn't recognize himself in the student body. Pure luck though.</p>
<p>The sport analogy is a great one, Cheers. Most of my sons peers who really made the sports team a major factor in their college choice ended up dropping the sport after a year or two. Which is a reason why a sport should not drive the choice of college. You should pick college you like, then check out what they have in the way of sports, not the other way around. Some of these kids ended up at some school because of a sweet talking coach, a great recruiting trip, sports scholarship and sports facilities. None of which does any good if you quit the team. It seems to me that The D went about it the right way. Picked the schools and then checked out the ballet options. Those options will be there if she decides to pick up on the dance some more in future terms. My college roommate was a dancer who dropped that activity until her junior year, and then when she really wanted to pick it up again, it was not easily available at her level at our college. My D went through pangs of regret last year when she wanted to step up the art work and realized how limited the resources for this are at her school. And we had warned her about this when she was considering the school. Not an issue at all at the time, but two years later, a different story.</p>
<p>Just my thought: I was quite active in extracurriculars in high school (absolutely loved all of them, and there were a lot!), but I just didn't have time in college. A lot of high school life revolves around ECs in ways that it doesn't in college. I tried to keep up with some of them, but you just can't get the same level and breadth - something has to give. If academics are the top priority, well, most likely the ECs are going to be sporadic. I went from a three-season athlete/poetry mag editor/GSA leader to... well, doing a bunch of engineering, hanging out with friends doing college stuff, and some work on poetry magazines... with running in there when I had time and wasn't injured. Such an entirely different lifestyle, which is tough for the high schoolers to comprehend.</p>
<p>Momrath, the "eggs in your beer" is an expression that I think dates to the 1930's or 1940's, with a meaning of "do you want to top something great with something even better," e.g., gee, should we put a cherry on top of your ice cream.</p>
<p>Cheers, I wish that I had visited an engineering school and not recognized myself in the crowd. Might have saved a lot of time and grief.</p>
<p>InterestedDad, yeah, at Smith ballet slots are a dime a dozen. HY or S could have been more problematic but, as one former adcom member said after reviewing her EA ballet-centered essay, "Dancers are a dime a hundred." Wish we'd known that...high-academic dancers aren't that common here though last year may have been the equivalent of West Point's class of, I think, 1903 (The Year the Stars Fell): graduating seniors went to Cornell, Barnard, Vassar, and of course, Smith, among other places, when previous years hardly ever sent anyone out of state, though at least one went to Stanford. Note: the one who went to Cornell is disappointed by the Dance there and grumbles about grade deflation.</p>
<p>AriesAthena...LOL at your last. (Folks, AA and the D met during D's Boston-to-NYC college search trip and have come to know each other fairly well and even I have now been known to IM AA when she should be outlining her law classes instead of talking to me.) Engineerng sucks the life out of everything else, imo, if you're going to do it well. Of course, while D isn't doing engineering, she's carrying 20 units doing a double major including Math: she has a week-long take-home final exam coming up...yecch. Next semester she takes 21.</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings in retrospect: I'm glad I have something of an engineering background and the analytical outlook never leaves you. Otoh, I would have been better off in more verbal fields much earlier...maybe a Government/Theater major.</p>
<p>Last year D wanted a strong science school for her major with a good orchestra/band program that would let her continue playing her bassoon as a non-music major. Now very happy at college she has continued with the bassoon. She plays in the Harvard Pops Orchestra and recently was recruited to join the Harvard Wind Ensemble as well, where she will get to play both bassoon and her other love, percussion. She perhaps aspires to play in the Harvard-Radcliffe Orchestra some day before she graduates. It's the top orchestra on campus. (Even though bassoon is her primary instrument, D apparently hears percussion rhythms in her head all the time - when sitting quietly she will often start drumming out with her fingers some marimba part or the like). The alum (a fellow bassoonist) who interviewed her for admisssion last year apparently recommended her to the Wind Emsemble conductor, since they were short of both bassoonists and percussionists. </p>
<p>So I suppose her search criteria last year were correct. She found what she said she was looking and so far has stuck with it.</p>
<p>And that is why it is good to have that option available even if the student decides later that other priorities have risen. These kids change their minds a lot, and so they should at their ages and situations.</p>
<p>[I changed my major on my first day of college, some 30+ years ago! First day of calculus class disabused me of the notion of being a math major.] </p>
<p>If only we had a crystal ball, we could have told TheDad's D that she would run out of time for ballet after one semester at college. She might be at Georgetown or GWU now and would have missed the delirious time she is having at Smith.</p>
<p>My high school junior D flirts with the thought of engineering, regularly goes back to her passions for science and math, and then last week announced that she'd like to further explore political science! One appealing aspect of Tufts is that they have an engineering department (with a very high female population) and students are encouraged to either double major engineering with another, or switch into the engineering program after freshman year. It appears to be just as easy to switch out of engineering and still have a plethora of majors available. I've noted, also, that Swarthmore has a small, generalized engineering department. If she were to pursue engineering, would a degree from one of those schools be as valuable as one from one of the more technical schools? At this point, she wants to keep options open, though she may be more "certain" of her intended path next year. At least until she changes her mind again.</p>
<p>Now that middle Daughter's hs friends are finishing their first semesters of college, many are grappling with questions about belonging/transferring. For some, just another semester at their schools will help them feel like they belong. One girl applied only to schools near racetracks so that she could continue riding (and she hasn't been on a horse since summer.) One boy wanted a big state U but not our big state U because he didn't want to see all the same hs friends. He will start his second semester at our big state U because he DID miss those hs friends too much.</p>
<p>When this daughter went off to school leaving behind a life she loved very much, I told her that after some amount of time, her campus would be "home" to her, which she could not imagine. Freshman year is tough because they don't have that "home" feeling anywhere but eventually they do develop it. D's comment: "Why does the pantry only have foods that _______ (D # 3) eats?"</p>
<p>For my son it was a good solid core curriculum like Chicago's and Columbia's and an urban, or a suburban location. He applied to Columbia ED, got deferred. Then applied to U Chicago (reach), U of Michigan (as a match/safety) and NYU (a match) and Swarthmore (a reach). He got into U of Michigan early February and an early write from Swarthmore. In March, both of us (son and I) were discouraged, so we thought this is it: if he doesn't get in anywhere else, his real choices are U Mich and Swat and we did our due-diligence accordingly. We both liked Swarthmore a lot but since he was the one who was going to college, I kept my opinions to myself. I personally liked U Mich a lot and I liked the wide range of options available as well as the Honors program. Both of us did not know much about LACs then except for the brochures we had got from Swathmore.</p>
<p>Come April, he got into U of C but rejected from Columbia. We did our due-diligence with U of C but he did not want to go there, having liked Swat a lot. </p>
<p>His initial criteria of a core curriculum was not justified to a certain extent. At Swat he is imitating the core curriculum but he has he freedom to not do that if he likes and he likes that!</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I've noted, also, that Swarthmore has a small, generalized engineering department. If she were to pursue engineering, would a degree from one of those schools be as valuable as one from one of the more technical schools? </p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<p>Yes. The smaller colleges with engineering programs tend to do very well in graduate placement. In fact, I think their kids are often viewed as good engineering management track candidates because they have a technical background AND a broad base of knowledge, critical thinking, and communication skills. From the National Science Foundation data, it looks like roughly 20% to 25% of Swarthmore's Engineering majors go on to get Ph.Ds in engineering. That's an insanely high percentage, slightly higher for example than the percentage reported by the NSF for undergrads from MIT's School of Engineering.</p>
<p>As a parent, I would be cautious about kids locking themselves into an engineering tech school. College level math/physics is very different than high school and the career tracks can be somewhat narrowly defined. Math (on a math major track) is radically different as the emphasis changes from solving problems to proving theorems. It is extremely common for math/science kids to get to college and decide that is really NOT what they want to do. If you are enrolled as a freshman at Caltech when you come to that realization, you've got a real problem on your hands!</p>
<p>There are some kids where the choice of a tech school is obviously suitable. (My daughter refers to those kids in her freshman seminar on Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity as "The Physics Boys"). But, for most kids, I think it's safer to chose a college that offers a broader range of options.</p>
<p>Ellemenope, and that's the devil of it: for what she's enjoying about Smith, I'm glad she's not at Georgetown. There really is a lot of dark cosmic comedy about all of this.</p>
<p>I think that what comes of all of this is that once our students head off they find there is no absolutely perfect school. The freshman year honeymoon is over and my daughter still adores Columbia. She has switched her intended major but is continuing on the pre-med track. Most of the things that were part of her search criteria still ring true. She loves being in NYC and has made the life experience there part of her education. She has always felt that a university setting leaves so much up to the student that she would come out at the other end better prepared for life. (don't flame me...this is her opinion and I respect it). She has good relationships with her profs and is very close with one or two of them. She has developed a wonderful group of friends. She is working for a couple of volunteer programs that excite her.</p>
<p>The Core Curriculum, of which Columbia is very proud, leaves a student limited time to do the academic dabbling that she realized after the fact would best suit her academically. (For the uninitiated, Columbia has a large Core Curriculum of classes starting with "Literature and Humanities" that eats up 1/4 (?) of the undergraduate program) That being said, she has enjoyed the Core thus far. There seems to be a jaded New Yorker attitude that Columbia students have along the lines of "We are surviving the Core.", even among those who are enjoying it.</p>
<p>For my daughter the pluses at Columbia so far outweigh the minuses that it almost doesn't bare mentioning but no student goes through a university or even a smaller school that holds your hand without having to make a compromise or two.</p>
<p>Complicated but interesting question. I have a niece who chose a school for its equestrian program and -- yeah, hasn't been on a horse in years. She also left the school. In son's case, the problem was to get him to come up with what was important to him. Urban seemed to be the key. Later, a core curriculum, though I never could really get him to investigate what that would do to his course selection. Ultimately, I think it came down to some hazy sense of where he would find people he could hang with. Now, he comments that college is not like high school -- everyone can find friends at college. But he's very happy and doesn't seem to think about the schools he turned down or didn't look at. (Only mom does that.) </p>
<p>I sometimes think of it in terms of the direction that being in different schools can turn someone's life. However, so much is serendipity -- a particular professor, a scheduling conflict between two extra curriculars, a roomate -- you can drive yourself crazy that way. Maybe crazy enough to add eggs to your beer? (I also have never heard that expression.)</p>
<p>One factor in the selection process that I do think was important for him -- he wanted to continue playing music. We did get him to at least think about what would happen at each college if he didn't make the jazz band and wasn't a music major. That has worked out fine and, in fact one of those serendipitous things happened, in that he also found a different type of music to try and is now in two bands. His friend who is at a place where you have to be a music major to get put in a combo is less happy.</p>
<p>The key just seems to be to end up at a college where, because of the culture, or your kid's personality, or some mix of the two, your kid will rush out to take advantage of the opportunities -- academic and social. From seeking out professors to joining groups. I actually think that was our basic criterion all along, so yeah, that worked out fine.</p>
<p>Elleneast -- Looks like we were posting at the same time, and about the same school.
I'm glad your daughter's still happy though a sophomore. Sophomore slump is a phenomenon everywhere. I think I read the core actually represents a third of your classes. What's her major?</p>