Seeking advice guiding D24 in light of mental health issues

Parents Forum
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Given the major is in decline, she might look outside of just prestige. There’s a million rankings out there - and this is just one. Note, the #1 school is a public in VA that you may not even have heard of.

I was looking at faculty of Brandeis…since she wants to be a prof. I didn’t see Ivy- I saw a Troy undergrad and PHD at Auburn. Another PHD at Miami of Ohio.

She doesn’t need to go to the elite of all elite schools to necessarily make her mark…if she even gets there (no one at 18 can truly see 10 years out).

It’s a scary situation - and I wish you all the best. I also put a link to St. Johns College which is unique and may be of interest.

I Came, I Saw, I Crushed This Major: CM’s Top 10 Best Classics Schools (collegemagazine.com)

Discover & Explore Classical Studies and Greek | St. John’s College (sjc.edu)

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Beyond proximity to a major city, which your daughter has expressed as a desired attribute, Sarah Lawrence, based on survey-data, appears to offer an excellent classroom experience:

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In reviewing your previous thread that @thumper1 linked, you might want to give additional thought to some of these schools.

These lists were based largely on the number of students they have majoring in classics and in anthropology, using the number of majors as a proxy for strength in the program. I’ve separated the schools into two separate lists based on the size of the undergrad population in comparison with Tufts/Brown. The first list veers smaller than those schools while the other one veers larger, based on what your daughter prefers as a better fit.

If I have heard anything about an institution possibly being an academically intense environment, I wrote to investigate the intensity, as it could be that there is hard work but a collegial atmosphere, or something else. Depending on the situation at a particular school, it may or may not be a good candidate for your daughter to consider.

This list is categorized based on my very fallible sense of what might be your D’s chances of acceptance, if her standardized test scores turn out to be in line with what her practice results showed.

These are schools that are about the same size or (mostly) smaller than Tufts/Brown.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Beloit (WI)
  • Lawrence (WI)
  • UNC – Asheville (North Carolina’s liberal arts school)

Likely (60-79%)

  • College of Wooster (OH) (veering towards extremely likely): investigate intensity
  • Rhodes (TN) – perhaps too Greek? But I know Davidson was under consideration, so…
  • Rollins (FL) – if having a private, in-state option is desired, but investigate cultural fit

Toss-Up (40-59%)

  • Brandeis (MA)
  • Bryn Mawr (PA ) – women’s college within a consortium; investigate intensity
  • Connecticut College (veering towards likely)
  • Kenyon (OH)
  • Oberlin (OH)
  • U. of Rochester (NY) – investigate intensity

Lower Probability (20-39%)

  • Macalester (MN)
  • Smith (MA) – women’s college

Low Probability (less than 20%)

These are schools that are larger than Tufts/Brown. Most of these are public schools, and I threw in two low probability schools (UNC and UVA). Although your daughter may not need additional reaches for her list, bigger state schools are often less competitive and academically threatening than similarly reachy private schools, while still having some of the prestige cachet that you are trying to break her away from.

Extremely Likely (80-99+%)

  • Loyola Chicago (IL)
  • U. of New Hampshire
  • UNC - Greensboro
  • U. of Vermont

Likely (60-79%)

  • Binghamton (NY)
  • Fordham (NY)
  • U. of Minnesota – Twin Cities
  • U. of Pittsburgh (PA )

Toss-Up (40-59%)

Lower Probability (20-39%)

Low Probability (less than 20%)

  • UNC – Chapel Hill
  • U. of Virginia
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24

I actually just posted about Sarah Lawrence on another thread. One of my students received a $47k annual scholarship there. It’s an interesting school, quite arty, known for its Oxford tutorial style.

There are countless threads on CC over the years of students and parents obsessed with prestige. It’s not pretty, tbh. I love the post linked by @AustenNut because it is so important for students to think of themselves and what will help them to thrive and be happy. Too many students think they want prestige. Too many realize it isn’t all its cracked up to be. Too many students come back here and post about how they want to transfer out of their tippy top university. Obviously, it works out for most of them, because most highly selective schools have very high retention rates. But sooo many other colleges that are not insanely selective have very high retention rates too.

I don’t agree that asking a student to make a list of safeties is asking them to come up with a consolation prize. Frame it as “finding schools that can make you feel good about yourself.” Look at colleges with high retention rates, because honestly, if a student is happy at their school, they stick around.

Have a look at these lists. (It may be worth noting that some of this data might be based on the covid year–hard to believe that Yale only has a 90% retention rate):
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/freshmen-least-most-likely-return
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-liberal-arts-colleges/freshmen-least-most-likely-return

IMO, any college where 80% of freshmen stick around is probably worth investigating. And also, a lot of these colleges offer great merit scholarships. Nothing boosts a kid’s ego like a college dangling delicious carrots on a stick.

Some colleges on these lists that haven’t yet been mentioned might be worth your daughter investigating as matches or even safeties, and/or for possible merit scholarships:
Haverford
Smith
Connecticut College
Bryn Mawr
Bucknell
Chapman
Mt. Holyoke
Occidental
UW Madison
Ohio State
Santa Clara U
U Pitt
Brandeis
Binghamton

Edit: I see @AustenNut was posting as I was still writing, as we have mentioned similar colleges.

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25

Great minds think alike. :wink:

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This is really unfortunate, because loving parents are their child’s best advocate. Nobody loves or knows the child as much as invested parents do. Some therapists claim that they are “required” to say very little to you, but that is not actually true. That may be the way they were trained, but it is not a legal requirement of any kind if your child is under the age of 18. A skilled therapist will very much keep parents in the loop and actually will make parents part of the therapeutic team. The therapist should be talking with you often, both to get your perspective, and to teach you ways to help your daughter on her journey. And parents do not have to be “perfect” in order to be a help to their children.

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In Virginia, a minor over 14 is afforded the same rights as an adult in mental health treatment in terms of privacy.

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Can the daughter agree/stipulate that the parent can receive information?

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Daughter does not want therapist(s) to share with us. The two she sees in Florida give who us updates generally but her local therapist in Virginia is through the school and does not share with us. She is on the wait list for a highly regarded local group we hope to be able to begin working with this summer. She shares more with me than with her dad and reports she is fine now and the crisis has passed but she hates taking medication.

This thread had included lots of great ideas and I am grateful. I will look at the links and get excited about more places and take her on more visits.

And, she’s not totally committed to classics and anthropology, those just are her current interests and she knows it’s good to have an open mind. Latin French and English are just currently her favorite classes and she has always been fascinated by ancient and indigenous cultures, so that’s what she is thinking, but she has a more holistic approach to considering school than just the major, if that makes sense

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Well, Virginia is not the state where I practice, and I’m not a lawyer either, but the Center for Ethical Practice’s website seems to imply that a minor’s rights are not the same as an adult’s:

“Thus, under HIPAA at §502(g)(3)(ii), Virginia at §54.1-2969, K, and Virginia at §20-124.6, the minor does not have the legal right to refuse parents access to treatment information, unless (a) the provider determines that disclosure would cause “substantial harm to the minor or another person” or (b) a court finds “good cause” to disallow disclosure.”

I realize this is getting off topic in this thread, and perhaps this info is not relevant to this family, but I do think it’s important that parents in general understand they have the legal right to be kept in the loop.

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OP- hugs to you. And kudos to your kids who sound fantastic.

You don’t want to hear this- but I’ll give it to you straight- you will ALL sleep better at night with your D within driving distance, at least for Freshman year. Yeah, she hates Florida, I get it. But college is four years- her life (hopefully) is decades and decades and decades of living where she wants, doing what she wants, achieving what she wants.

I will not bore you (or scare you) with the stories of folks I know IRL (not CC’ers, although there are many of those stories as well) who made the frantic flights up, down, across our very big country for a kid in crisis. In many of these cases, the HS therapist had said “Yup” when the question was posed “Can he go so far away” or “Is he ready to live so independently after a mental health crisis”.

Therapists aren’t good at predicting the future-- no medical professional is. But the likelihood that your D will need more support than she thinks she does-- regardless of where she goes to college- is very high. And the closer she is to you; the easier it is for you to “pop in” on a Sunday to take her to brunch, eyeball her, get a feel for what’s really going on.

I had a depressed and suicidal roommate freshman year. She was wonderful- brilliant and kind and talented. But I was 17, from a relatively sheltered upbringing, and the shift (that I recognized in hindsight, not in real time) when she went from unable to get out of bed to active suicidal ideation… well, I was not equipped to handle that. Neither was our 20 year old RA. When I called her parents frantically to tell them “you need to come get her before she hurts herself” they seemed annoyed that I had “waited so long”.

Really? You send your depressed daughter off to college to live with a stranger and I’m supposed to recognize the right time to phone you (with your D moaning “Don’t call my mom” in the background)?

She was at the top of her class in HS, never met an academic challenge she couldn’t meet- but she showed up for college in a recently stable state and her family kinda/sorta hoped for the best.

Your D deserves more than being taken care of by other adolescents if she hits a pothole.

I agree with the others that giving the college conversation time to percolate is the way to go right now- but if it were me (and I realize advice is cheap from a total stranger) I’d be drawing a circle around my house and figuring out which of the driving distance options would meet some (if not all) of your D’s criteria.

If her therapist isn’t sharing- and if your D isn’t sharing- all you know is that she’s performing well academically.

With any luck, your D will have many healthy years ahead of her, and once her resentment simmers down, she’ll enjoy college wherever she ends up. And she’ll apply to Oxford for a doctorate in Classics or to Cambridge for a doctorate in Anthropology, and you’ll have a blast visiting her in the UK when she’s a healthy adult.

Hugs to you. It’s not a race. And don’t assume that your D’s teenage roommate is going to understand the signs of a relapse…

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33

Jamie, in which state are you licensed?

Recommending CBT or exposure therapy when you have no idea what the OP’s D’s issues are would be considered malpractice in my state.

If you aren’t a licensed therapist, perhaps you want to sit this one out.

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Apparently, according to @jamiesas144’s post in a thread about Dartmouth, they are a college student, and thus not a therapist, not licensed anywhere, and likely not even a parent (I don’t want to assume).

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We had to fly my daughter home - total meltdown first semester - she’s at C of Charleston and someone mentioned b4 that on campus counseling is overwhelmed resource wise - and it’s certainly the case there. We got her an appointment with her home private counselor although she hasn’t had an appointment in the last ten months or so.

Both my kids struggled first semester - and I don’t think that’s uncommon - so having your student accessible is good, especially when there is risk.

Of course, you’re coming from a different perspective in that your daughter is away and most of us haven’t experienced that. And interesting to me is the school wanted her back so quickly because I’ve read about colleges that you’d have to remain out for a certain period of time. There was a recent thread on Harvard about this - although I might be comingling issues.

What most concerns me - and again I’m just observing but not making any diagnosis as i’m not qualified but - if there’s so much stress on oneself in a supportive environment with staff looking out for your welfare, what will happen when you get to college and that is not going to be the case? We were fortunate - my daughter’s roommate called her mom who called my wife about some behavior they deemed troubling (it wasn’t fortunately). Most wouldn’t. The stress these kids put on themselves today when they get a B or don’t get into their reach school is unreal. And the getting a B happens at college too. My son is used to it in engineering but not my daughter and kept telling us every day that she was spending so much time at office hours and with a tutor for chinese but might still get a B - to which we said, if you’re learning the language, managing your time so that you can do your best and putting forth the effort you clearly are, we’re proud of you no matter your grade. We just ask that you take your studies seriously - and seek help when needed - and the grade is irrelevant. But kids don’t think like that.

Students self harming themselves is a real thing unfortunately. And for that, I worry - a lot - about my kid, about your kid, etc.

Good luck.

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Is she supposed to take this medication once she goes to college?

If so, if she hates taking her medication, I would be very concerned if she were more than a few hours driving distance from home, as she might very well decide that she can do fine without the meds once she is out from under the supervision of a boarding school and in the much more lax environment of a college. I think I (personally) would want to be within an easy drive of her campus, both so that I could be there in case of an emergency AND so that I could visit on a fairly regular basis, at least during the first semester, just to keep an eye on things as she transitions into the relative freedom/often high-stress environment of freshman year.

Just my 2 cents.

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37

Distance from home is a very good suggestion, but I might also adjust to say, ease/speed of visiting. Perhaps someplace is only 2 hours by plane (1hr at the airport and 1hr flight) vs. 6 hours by car. I would look at your closest airport and see where there are direct flights.

Take, for example, the Jacksonville airport (which might be your closest airport if Charleston is about 4 hours away). There are direct flights to New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Atlanta, Charlotte, Norfolk, Nashville, Denver, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Detroit, Pittsburgh, Washington, D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, New York City, Hartford, and Boston. I would look and see how many flights a day are offered to these destinations, by how many airlines, and the length of the flight (and cost of flight(s), if that is a consideration).

For instance, from schools mentioned above:

Boston:

  • Brandeis

Chicago:

  • Loyola Chicago

Los Angeles (which even if there are direct flights, would still be a longer flight):

  • Chapman
  • Occidental

New York:

  • Fordham

Philadelphia:

  • Bryn Mawr
  • Haverford

Pittsburgh:

  • U. of Pittsburgh

I understand when it seems as though nearly all geographically close schools just do not seem like a fit. Geographically close schools might work best. But if your family has the means (in terms of time and money) to make direct flights a real possibility in order to pop in/check-in and in cases of emergency, it might be able to expand the geographic footprint of the college search.

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This last bit concerns me. You didn’t mention what diagnosis your child has received. But a 3 week inpatient stay indicates to me that it was quite serious. Its good that the medication has helped. But what typically happens is that patients start to feel better and they stop taking their medication…often without telling anyone. And then the symptoms recur.

Almost all mental health meds have serious side effects: weight gain, libido change, drowsiness, etc. So thats why patients don’t like taking them. But they do help over the long term. Medications don’t work if they are not taken.

What are you going to do if you send your daughter off to college several thousand miles away and then get a call in the middle of the night about another crisis?

It takes a while for patients to accept their mental illness – its called insight. Sometimes years. Until that point, I think its very risky to send her away so you can’t keep close watch. I would seriously prioritize her mental health at this point. More relapses/recurrences at this young age will affect her developing brain, and make her long-term outcomes poorer. She can always attend college later once the mental health condition is stabilized.

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Thank you all for your very thoughtful replies. You are all so kind and compassionate

@blossom and @tsbna44 I truly appreciate you sharing your experiences. It certainly is not what what I want to hear, but that reinforces that it is absolutely a perspective I must hear. I tend to be an optimistic, almost Pollyanna-ish person, which I am seeing is giving me a blind spot in hoping too much for the best and not being realistic enough about preparing for the worst. I need to work on that. I think I am really having a hard time saying no to her dreams when I have always told her she can go anywhere she wants.

@AustenNut yes, thank you for the direct flight perspective. Driving distance only could be a very tough sell for her, as much as she has loved Virginia and mountains and seasons and escaping the heat. She also may struggle to fit in at a lot of “Southern” schools, which I worry is worse for mental health than being in an environment where she feels she belongs and can find her community. Direct flight could be a great compromise. It would sadly rule out Vassar, if she could get in, because it is very hard to get there. It’s hard to let the idea of Vassar go though because it had a vibe that really clicked with her.

@MMRose we are hopeful she will not be on medication in college, but I do not know. She currently is on 25mg daily of Zoloft, which her psychiatrist described as practically a placebo. She claims it makes it hard to fall asleep, which is why she hates it. I suspect cutting out caffeine would do the trick, but that suggestion was not well received. Ultimately, the goal of course is to develop strong coping mechanisms so medication will not be as important a tool.

I did have a lovely evening snuggling with her on the sofa watching the Georgia Bulldogs and just chatting. I do think she is in a good place right now, but I also know that can change.

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For a parent Vassar is pretty easy to reach as you can fly into any of the three NYC airports, rent a car and be in Poughkeepsie in less than 90 minutes. For the kid going home it’s a bit tougher - involves train from Poughkeepsie to NY, then subway (or cab) to the airport. But as a parent who could rent a car from NY it would be pretty quick to get there if needed.

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