Seeking advice guiding D24 in light of mental health issues

Parents Forum
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For years, my D24 has been a very academically focused kid who dreamed of Brown with an ultimate goal of becoming a professor in a Classics or Anthropology department. Through Sophomore year, she was #1 in her high school class and is still an engaged student-leader, writing for the school paper, performing in plays, editing the school literary/art magazine, and serving as a class prefect. She is a great kid! This fall, she left school for three weeks due to a mental health breakdown. She did in patient treatment for a week, started some medication, and has continued with out patient therapy. Miraculously, she has managed to make up her coursework and stay mostly on track. She received her Fall grades this week (she is taking 3 APs, one honors . . . Most available) plus two languages and did well … 2 A+, 2 A, A- in APUSH, and her first ever B+ in AP BIO. I am THRILLED she did so well and, more importantly, I am relieved she is in a much better place. But these grades definitely are not as high as “typical” for her.

But here is where I need help . . . How do I help her recalibrate her college goals? I do not feel like it is appropriate to push her to bring up her Biology grade or to study to the SAT (she will do well on EBRW but will need to study to get a strong math score) because I do not want to contribute to anxiety or depression. But I feel like Brown is out of the running and maybe she knows that, too, but I’m not sure. Her next favorites are Tufts and Vassar . . . Also highly rejective. She doesn’t have any exciting likelies yet, and I am struggling with how to broach the topic in a positive manner that doesn’t make her feel bad. More than anything I want her to continue working toward good mental health, but she also is so invested in her former college goals. How do I help her recalibrate and get excited about some wonderful likely schools without making her feel like she hasn’t “failed”? (WE know she isn’t failing, but I’m worried of making her feel that way at all.)

To make matters ever so slightly more complicated, she has a twin brother who is absolutely rocking his Junior year. Fortunately, none of their school ambitions currently overlap, but there is still sibling rivalry.

Thank you for your perspectives.

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Based on your daughter’s academic interests, you might introduce her to a range of colleges that would be excellent for the study of classics:

Most of these schools are highly selective, but a few are less so than others.

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Even if your D hadn’t been struggling with mental health, she still would need to have a list that includes safeties and matches. ALL students need to focus on finding those schools No reason why she can’t still have Brown as her high reach school but as you noted, Tufts and Vassar, are far from being easy admits so that list needs to be balanced (as it does for her twin).

I’d start looking up some less selective schools strong in her areas of interest - Schools like Knox (safety) or Gettysburg (match) for Classics. Kenyon and Oberlin are both strong in Anthropology and should be matches.

I would also start setting some ground work so both kids understand that college rejections aren’t personal and say NOTHING about who they are as people and their ability to be successful. Colleges are merely balancing out their classes, nothing more. Please be sure your D understands that if she doesn’t get into Brown, it doesn’t mean failure! She sounds like a remarkable young woman who has already overcome a lot or hardship.

And hugs to you too! Not easy watching our kids struggle.

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I would say obviously her mental health is most important and perhaps taking the foot off the college pedal will be most important. Maybe not talking about college at all while she continues through counseling.

Maybe a gap year will be appropriate or a local school or one less rigorous. Ultimately the student will make their success.

Clearly from what she’s going through this part isn’t worth it.

I personally would steer my child away from the entire discussion. I know it’s hard as she’s worked hard to build this profile. But something caused this, school or otherwise. We read too many stories of high performers with bad endings and you want to focus on the mental health moreso than pedigree of a school.

Having to be pulled out of school for weeks, there’s certainly deeper rooted issues then - will I go to Tufts or Vassar or Brown or U of my state or city or community college or take a gap year and work. Her mental health and not causing self harm are far more important.

Best of luck to her.

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These grades are terrific. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a B+ or A- grade. There are plenty of kids who get accepted to top colleges without a perfect 4.0 GPA.

As noted, your daughter and her twin both need well balanced college application lists. Colleges with acceptance rates under 20% should not be viewed as sure things by any student.

So…as suggested…have both kids make a list of the characteristics they want in a college, and then start the search for things that fulfill a majority of those characteristics. Both kids may find that they need to compromise on something on these lists. But most kids do find places that satisfy the things they care about the most.

You don’t mention an SAT or ACT score. Perhaps these scores will help in identifying Target colleges.

And I’ll give my free advice for you…your kids…both of them…need to identify a couple of sure things for admission, affordability and where they would be happy to attend. Find those first. It’s very easy to find reachy schools, and sometimes more challenging to find those surer things. So start there. It’s just a good strategy. Then build your lists up.

No reason, in my opinion, to remove Brown from her application list. It was going to be a reach anyway.

And totally agree….her mental health well being is far more than any college.

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Regarding your daughter’s interest in Brown, these colleges offer comparable programs or atmospheres in one or more ways:

While a few of these schools are similarly selective to Brown, others offer a significantly higher chance of admission for qualified applicants.

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Those grades would have been fantastic for any kid, let alone a kid who had a mental health breakdown leading to a 3 week hiatus. She must be some student!

I’d love to say that it’s too early to put the college app stress on her, but spring of junior yr is the right time to be having the conversations that you need to have, and I agree, there’s no way that you can delay them if her twin is on the same timeline. But you have to realize that her mental health comes before schoolwork, college apps, ECs, anything else!

First of all, can you help her to make the choice between prepping for the SAT or ACT now? That helps to narrow down her prep work. This can be easily done by having her do a diagnostic timed ACT at home, downloaded for free from the ACT site. She can compare this to her PSAT score (unless she missed that, in which case she’d need to do an at-home practice SAT also, for diagnostic purposes). Choose the test that she felt better about. Then, for a high achiever like this, a little self-prep could probably go a long way towards improving her math score - one of my kids did only about 8 hrs math self-prep and brought math up by about 100 pts, because it’s mostly just review of concepts that they learned as much as 3 years ago. She might be able to get this done over the rest of winter break, if she’s at a private school with a long break, and take the test soon. If she’s not happy with the results, she can prep more over the summer and retest in late summer. (Do public schools have prefects?)

I have a feeling that if her mental health is stable, she will probably zoom right back up to her usual high grades, and the rough semester won’t mean that much, in light of the return to astronomical grades.

Do you fall into that band of income/assets where you cannot possibly pay 170K/yr for the next four years for private college for 2, but you still wouldn’t qualify for enough fin aid? If so, then a frank financial conversation with each of the twins can be used as the reason to spur applications to financial safeties, namely, your state’s flagship state U’s and lesser schools where they might receive large merit money. She’s sure to get into those, and it sidesteps the academic dip due to the brief hiatus. And of course, unless she has a big hook (minority, legacy, wealthy donor, recruited athlete), the chances of getting into any of the T20 schools are very small, so she would have had to apply to safeties and matches, too - and so does her twin.

I would strongly discourage her from disclosing the mental health hiatus, or anything about her mental health, in her application, and make sure that the guidance counselor and recommenders do not, either. It’s an unfortunate truth that colleges do not want to accept students with mental health issues, both because their campus counseling services are all swamped with the huge number of stressed out students needing help, and because of their fear of liability. If an interviewer asks her about the tiny slip in her grades, she should probably say something like, “There was a family health issue going on, that was temporary and now is resolved.” That’s not a lie - she is a member of the family, and the hospitalization is resolved, and it’s not their business that she’s still on meds. But I doubt anyone would ask anything about it, since the dip in grades was so small.

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Please stop talking to her about colleges for a while. There is no reason why YOU need to figure out her future career. She is 16? She has many years to work out her goals. She can simply go to college and just let life happen. She has four year from now to decide what she wants to major in. She can still become a professor if that is what she wants to do. How many would be doctors go to college and figure out they would rather major in history or biology? A lot.

I’m not trying to be harsh, but imo, your post is full of pressure. I know you want to help your daughter, who is probably still in a delicate place. There is a college for everyone out there. Each years, tens of thousands of students don’t go to dream schools, or anything close to it. And the vast majority of those students end up at the right place for them.

Maybe give her a Fiske or Peterson’s guide and let her look at it on her own. You can gently tell her that given the circumstances (they are what they are), she is smart to broaden her list. Tell her to read about colleges she might have never heard of. (My own kid ended up at a college unknown to her until she finished sophomore year.) If she likes the vibe at Brown, Tufts and Vassar maybe she can consider Clark, Dickinson, Oberlin, Goucher, Skidmore, or Muhlenberg, as examples.

When she is ready, visit some matches and safeties. Don’t get in the car and head for the hardest colleges to get into. Visit Dickinson, visit Skidmore, visit Clark. She can see what she likes about those schools.

She still has good grades, btw. She is going to have good choices. An A+ GPA is not special at highly selective schools. They will reject tons of kids with grades like that. A B or two is not going to doom her app.

The TLDR: give her space. Help her adjust her expectations in a low pressure way. Stop worrying about the career of your sixteen year old. Let her figure out what path she wants to take. It’s her path, not yours.

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Agree with @Lindagaf - not sure why there is a college discussion. Perhaps the “student” needs it emotionally - don’t know.

But someone left school for three weeks. Think about that.

So how can they just be back on the finding a college horse?

We just got tragic news from Princeton and this is just one of many. You don’t want this happening to your child.

She needs to work on her - not college. It’s almost like, after her return from breakdown, nothing changed.

Honestly - and I’m an outsider of course and not a psychologist - but I can’t imagine the entirety of the subject shouldn’t change - and be pushed aside while the focus is on her.

Understood there’s another sibling and there’s probably pressure on that way (doing better or as well) - but someone who has to drop out for weeks - I don’t think you just come back and resume what you were doing.

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What made Brown, Vassar and Tufts desirable to your daughter? Had she visited the schools, read about them etc? What were the characteristics of these schools that attracted her?

I agree with others that the paramount goal is to lessen the pressure on your daughter, but will avoid making suggestions I am not qualified to make or that you didn’t request.

With that in mind I like many on these threads are very familiar with the aforementioned preferred schools. If her interest in these schools is based on vibe, academic offering, setting etc I am sure we can offer a number of schools that would offer a similar experience.

If however she is basing her admiration for these schools on some idealistic reputation I would try and help her “recalibrate” approach and expectations.

She is a talented student based on what you describe. I suspect if you dropped her off for brief visits at Vassar, Skidmore, Bard and Sarah Lawrence on any given day she would come away with a large list of common traits and a very small list of plus minuses.

Please help us steer you as to what your student is looking for and lastly you are hardly alone with these challenges!

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Actually, the OP received some excellent suggestions in the thread posted in the fall. And many of the colleges suggested were of a variety of competitive levels.

Also, the OP mentions they are from Florida, and I hope they are considering some of the colleges there…or near there.

I would suggest the OP read this thread again for some ideas.

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I just want to say you are doing a good job with a tough situation! Parenting a kid who is very driven is not easy. Intense kids, in my experience, often come out of the womb like this, and it is confusing to know how to parent them. It is not unusual for this personality type to experience a mental health crisis at some point, and if it is going to happen truthfully it is better that it happen when they are under your roof (as opposed to away at college for the first time etc) So in that sense, she was lucky.

Anything less than “perfect” can really upset these kids, and so loving parents understandably respond by helping these kids reach their goals. In other words, unintentionally enabling, because of fear of how the intense kid will respond to “falling short.” Professional advice in situations like this usually is to set strict limits: No you may not study for the SATs, no you may not stay up past 10pm to study, no you may not participate in more than 1 EC per quarter, no you may not take that many APs etc. And then do therapy targeted at perfectionism. These kids need to learn the skill of NOT trying their hardest, NOT achieving their very best. They need to learn how to fail without melting down. They need to learn where the “off switch” to their perfectionism is, so they can learn to turn it off in situations where their intensity is becoming toxic to them.

I agree that your situation is made more complex by having a twin! It is much easier to set limits (e.g. no more than X # of APs) when there is nobody around to compare it to. I hope that your daughter’s therapist is experienced in this area, and makes a point of meeting with you parents often, to strategize through practicalities like this!

Best of luck!! You are doing a good job!

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Thank you all! I am tearful with gratitude for your thoughtful replies. I am trying very hard to help take pressure off, it’s her that is still bringing up the topic and talking about Tufts and Vassar (I think in her mind she has recalibrated because she no longer plans to ED at Brown). I have suggested to her that an intense/competitive college could be bad for her mental health and that made her very angry with me. College is still very important to her and I am trying to help her recalibrate and appreciate that it will not define her.

To respond to a few posts at once. Yes, we have visited Brown Tufts and Vassar. She loves the size of Tufts, it’s proximity to Boston while still having a traditional campus, the artsy/theater vibe, the programs, the possibility of a 4+1 masters, and frankly we had a phenomenal tour guide. At Vassar, she was enthralled with the campus, loves the school’s history and traditions, loves the open curriculum and emphasis on languages, and we had another great tour guide.

Yes, we are from Florida and she will apply to some Florida schools but she absolutely HATES Florida. She hates the heat, the politics, the lack of seasons, the tourism. The idea of Florida schools is very off putting to her. I think the schools aren’t as “terrible” as she thinks, but a big “RaRa” state school with a strong Greek culture is the opposite of what she wants. I plan to take her to visit New College in Florida, which I think may have more of the vibe she is looking for, but she rolled her eyes and insisted she wanted Northeast/Mid Atlantic when I brought it up. I also want her to consider College of Charleston (less than 4 hours from home), but she isn’t giving it a fair shake either.

She currently goes to boarding school in Virginia (we considered trying to keep her home after her crisis but she was adamant about getting back to her community and all of the mental health professionals she saw agreed that getting back to school as quickly as possible was the best thing for her). The school took her class to visit William & Mary and Christopher Newport U, both of which she liked OK.

Financially, we have been saving aggressively in 529s for the twins’ entire lives. They can choose schools without regard to cost.

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I’m not sure exactly what your daughter’s mental health issues are (and don’t need to know!) but if you feel like stress/pressure contributed to them, I would be thinking about college environments that more collaborative than competitive. That was something that was really important to my daughter when looking at schools and I’m thankful for it. She goes to a T20 school and literally has no idea what sort of grades her friends and classmates get. It’s just not something they share. The school doesn’t publish their honor roll/deans list like other schools do…they get an email if they make it but that’s it. At graduation they don’t get ropes or whatever for graduating with honors. In fact, I’m not sure they know if they did graduate with honors until after graduation. It just makes it so much easier for her to just focus on herself and not worry about what everyone else is doing.

I would also consider how much support you feel your daughter will need - both from the school and from her family. Is her being somewhere where it’s easy for her to get home or for you to get to her important? My D is 1200 miles away which is a challenge at times BUT she’s also in a major city which makes it easy to get to when needed. We usually visit once a semester.

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Most people find university mental health resources to be overtaxed and inadequate, so I would be sure she is near a counselor on your health plan she can visit as needed. I would also pick a place where you can visit often to keep an eye on her condition-no one will be monitoring her like in boarding school. Finally, I second the suggestion that the competitive atmosphere of a T20 school is likely to cause more harm than good.

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I’m so sorry about the hard time your daughter has had but am glad that she has been getting help and appears to be on the road to recovery. There are several issues that you’re dealing with in regards to this college search process (her drive/perfectionism, the twin, etc.).

With respect to her drive/perfectionism, I would suggest changing the framing. Rather than knowing/reciting her excellent grades (particularly remarkable with a 3-week absence), I would have all discussions reflect about what she learned in the classes (either about the subject, or the teaching style, or about ideas brought up by peers or how peers do things differently, etc). She can see that the family still cares about school, but it’s not about the grade but about what she’s getting from her classes and the experience. And that should be the case not just for her but also for her twin (and any other siblings who may still be in school). Hopefully that can start to decelerate the pressure she feels, and if family conversations remain non-grade focused for the remainder of schooling, it may help her and her sibling(s) to de-emphasize that part of school and the pressure that can come with it.

With respect to the college search, spring of junior year is often a time when the search process starts to ramp up and your daughter is bringing it up herself. I would speak with her care providers to see what they recommend. I have known people who find it very beneficial to have something outside of their area of concern to focus on, so it could be of benefit to her. But her care providers would certainly know best.

For the college process, I learned here (and think it’s a terrific idea) that it’s best to start the college search from the bottom. Meaning, finding the schools that are extremely likely to accept you that you can afford and that you would be happy to attend. That’s where both twins need to start their search, which might help ease the competitiveness.

Also, there’s this post by @CMA22 that I absolutely love and think is great reading for all who are looking for a college: How do I break the prestige mindset? - #43 by CMA22. There was also a recent thread with an update about the daughter’s college decision and how it has turned out: A look back at D22’s choice one year later and what makes a school the “best”. Thinking about some of those questions may help influence how your children approach their college search.

Wishing you and your family the best.

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I agree with others on this. Brown, Vassar and Tufts will be quite demanding academically and thus, there will stress and pressure to perform. It can be very tough for someone who is struggling. I do think all those colleges are generally more collaborative than competitive though, so let her apply. (Many of the colleges I mention below are also academically demanding, but have an even more collaborative vibe.)

As the parent, you have a LOT of say in what happens in her situation. I’d still back off for a bit. Don’t engage in college talk for a few weeks, if possible. At some point though, if she doesn’t come up with anything but more reaches, you are allowed to say “you need good bet and match schools. Let’s look through this guide together.”

Do give her the guide though, if she seems open to that. Maybe she can view it as a fact finding mission, or whatever motivates her without making her feel stressed. Maybe give her a general time frame to add colleges to her list. For example, “It’s smart for you to think about adding less selective colleges so that you have choices. Have a look at this guide (Fiske, etc…) and see what other colleges interest you. Maybe we can talk about some of them at the end of the month.” I would make her aware that everyone needs safeties and matches that they would be happy to attend.

In terms of colleges she might want to consider that are less selective than the three she is interested in, all the ones I suggested before might be worth checking out. Skidmore is no safety, and neither are Dickinson or Oberlin. Clark and Muhlenberg are probably safeties if she shows interest. Whitman is an excellent school if she has any interest in the PNW. Eckerd is a wonderful school in Florida, on the beach.

There are other reaches that are not quite as reachy as Tufts and Brown. Bates is known for being collaborative. Carleton, Grinnell, and Kenyon are all fantastic schools that come to mind, if she can handle the idea of the Midwest.

Or maybe she can consider honors colleges at larger universities. You said she wants to be near a city (like most students say, by the way) so perhaps the Honors program at Northeastern could work. Echols at UVA, Schreyer Honors at Penn State, and as a safer bet, though not a safety, the Honors College at U So. Carolina, which is highly regarded, could all be good options.

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Boarding schools usually have excellent college counseling. I would rely heavily on that as the counselor should have a good read on your daughter.
No one who chooses a college expects to struggle there. Nonetheless, a substantial percentage do, particularly at top schools, and their experience can greatly impact their mental health. Just something to think about for a student with prior mental health issues.

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I like a lot of these suggestions, but I would re-frame the search for matches and safeties even more than what the previous posters have done:

I wouldn’t say, “you need to find more likely schools” to anyone. In that light, it sounds like a consolation prize, a back up, a plan B. I would find some good programs in her area of interest that are at less selective colleges and encourage her to take a deep dive in researching them.

I would visit them! It’s more important to visit these schools than her reaches. If she is accepted at a reach, she will be thrilled. If she has visited these other schools and is accepted, she can be thrilled, too. There are schools out there with less selective admissions, but also with beautiful campuses, wonderful facilities, amazing professors, impressive placement rates, and motivated students. Kids don’t always believe that until they have really researched the schools that aren’t at the tippy top of the lists. Once they do visit and research, they realize that there is interesting research and fun opportunities just about everywhere.

She will likely also need to see you excited about these other schools, not simply being strategic or apologetic about them. You should do the same for your son.

I have one child at a top 25 and one at a top 75. There are things I love and things that drive me crazy about both universities. I believe that my top 25 school kid could have had an amazing experience at the top 75 school. I do NOT believe that my top 75 college kid would have enjoyed the top 25 school.

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Thank you. I absolutely love the idea of reframing the discussion about classes. That is so concrete, logical, and doable! Exactly what I need. I don’t want to make anything more stressful for her, but I acknowledge there likely are ways I contribute to the problem. I do think a gap year could be a good choice, but she currently isn’t interested. She does tend to do better when she is engaged with a community of peers, and she actually is very excited about college! But I think we all want a collaborative, positive environment.

Several of the school suggestions definitely are on her list, and I think she particularly should take a good look at Sarah Lawrence, as suggested. It is getting her out of the “elite” mindset that is a problem.

She says she is in a good place right now, and we get positive updates from her counselors, but there are lots of ways in which we are very much clueless. The professional updates are very generic due to confidentiality, and her updates are vague and typical of a 16 year old. We thought everything was just fine before, so we don’t really know what to think now. Mostly, we want her to know she is loved and supported and that grades and schools do not define her, but she still has that mindset in many ways. We are incredibly lucky that her school community and teachers all have done a phenomenal job of helping her.

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